[MENTION=12236]itssmiletime[/MENTION]
Who in the Verse hasn't made a bad decision that caused someone to die? Xander in OMWF, Willow killing Warren. Neither of them really got any grief for what they did, because of what? They didn't kill anyone they personally knew or cared about? Also its kind of crazy to say the world doesn't owe Buffy anything, she saved the world numerous times because it was her job and didn't ask anything in return out of principle, but that doesn't mean her world didn't owe her anything. I was making the point that Dawn especially owed her, since Buffy specifically gave up her own life to spare Dawns. Buffy just as simply could have killed Dawn on that tower to save the day but gave her life.
And going by your logic, Willow Xander Tara and Anya all made the decision to bring Buffy back to life which put the entire world in danger, so I fail to see how Buffy takes all the blame here. It just doesn't make sense for Buffy's closest friends to toss her out like that based on a miscalculated call.
I agree that they shouldn't have brought Buffy back, but the thing that differs that situation from Buffy's is that at least Willow did the basics. She was good. She did research. All the ingredients were exactly as they should be. Purely brilliant. Buffy didn't even know anything about Caleb- what he looked like, purpose, the structure of the vineyard. It's far more than a miscalculated call- in Empty Places, she had the nerve to say 'Spike is the only one watching my back' whilst Xander is in the hospital, without an eye, because he believed in her. No wonder he lost faith in her.
And people in the verse who hadn't made a bad decision leading to a
death? Um... Tara, Dawn, Anne Steele, etc.
I strongly believe that unless their is a contract, there is no debt I offically owe you. Sounds cold hearted, I know but it's true. I can't give people's opinions more weight than others based on previous experiences. I don't care what you have done in the past. To give someone's opinions and experiences more weight is purely undemocratic.
The reason why I am so tough on Buffy in S7 is primarily because of the line 'I am the law'. Very arrogant and self-righteous. And that's the price she is going to pay for that. I am extremely strict on every legal system, as should everyone. Xander, Willow don't pretend to be the law, so I don't have to judge them for that. I mean, when Willow says 'I was brilliant' I expect her to be brilliant, and she was.
Respect can always be lost, and personally, I can't respect anyone who calls or thinks any victim of suicide as weak, pressures friends to do things they don't want to do- regardless of the situation at hand. I just can't, and I don't want to, and I shouldn't have to. I don't care if you save the world on a daily basis, because under all that, you can still be a rotten, vile individual- who doesn't deserve respect because of all of that ugly ignorance. To me, you are trash.
Not even respect? That's all we're suggesting she is owed. I think it's a very little thing to expect a self-sacrificing human being to be treated with respect in her own home, which Rona did *not* do in the *way* she voiced her opinion.
But the Buffyverse is all about past events and how they continue to affect our lives. As for the "physical assault", she thought Dawn was a *demon*. It's easily excusable. And if I saw a teenager girl dancing inappropriately and dressed to barely cover her body in public I and most people would have a problem with it. She's underage. Buffy is her parental figure. She's in charge and that means being aware of how something like this could negatively affect Dawn and putting a stop to it.
As for the neglect: that I agree with; but then no one, Dawn included, acted well in season six so I don't hold Buffy to any different standard there than the other characters.
No, it's not easily excusable. It's physical assault, full stop. If anyone did that to me, for whatever reason whatsoever, no matter who they are, I'd have them arrested so fast. If a police officer did that to me, I would be suing them so much. And what evidence did Buffy have that she was a demon? Blinking from a trance spell? What proof is that? And let's not forget that Buffy is 10 times more physically powerful than Dawn, Dawn could have easily gotten her neck snapped...
Buffy was so out out line in Him- saying 'I'm glad our mother isn't around to see that' or 'Anna Nicole Smith finds you tacky'. And Dawn was wearing a tight jeans and a shirt. Well within the dress codes. It's not bad, at all. It's rude, full stop to insult someone's choice of clothing. I don't care if Buffy's her parental figure- those lines are not on. I dress more provactive at times, and at Dawn's age as well, and anyone, even family who'd dare call me trashy or sleazy or 'slutty' (a word I detest so much), I would give them hell.
About the Buffyverse being 'about past events'- by that logic, so is real life. I, and alot of people won't give people's opinions more weight than others. A lot of people put others through the ringer to earn their personal respect (I do) and you aren't going to earn it based on title or past achievements alone.
I always hated that line. I always disliked everybody - aside from Xander - in that scene. Some of them were out of place in talking back to Buffy (Anya, Kennedy, FREAKING Dawn), while some of them were just plainly out of character (Willow for example). However, a few days ago, while I was chatting with a friend about how Buffy went through so much in the show, this scene suddenly popped in my mind and I realized this: all the potentials, and even some of the others in the house, did NOT see everything that Buffy did or had to go through as a Slayer. WE did. Of course from OUR point of view, these people are out of their mind to talk crap like that, but from THEIR point of view, all they know about her is what they've heard and what they saw (a few glimpses into the whole that is Buffy) in the past weeks, which included going head first into a trap. As you could expect, they can't balance out what just happened (and is still fresh in their frightened minds) with memories of years of good decisions made by Buffy. The present is much more real for them, and thus they are worried about Buffy's decisions making skills.
Alright, I'm not trying to DEFEND them, because I still think they should have just left the house if they weren't happy (starting with Dawn), but this was to show how our point of view in that scene is very different from theirs.
I despise the notion of being 'out of place'. If you have an opinion, say it. I don't care how old you are, how many people who you've killed, your experience...
I agree that Willow is out of character. She's too passive. Real Willow would say 'We're not your little minions that you can boss around and walk all over'. But Willow in S7 was so regressed...
And so what if Buffy has suffered? So has everyone. Everyone has gone through crap. But no, she is The Slayer, and she whines alot and angsts, so her suffering is given more weight.
she was strict but that is the sign of a good leader and of course she made a mistake when she attacked Caleb's hideout but then again we all make mistiges. Even Napoleon Bonaparte who was one of the greatest leaders of all time made the mistake of invading Russia and that went disastorously.
I don't know what to think of Rona as a character but for that one insult I can let that slide.
Being strict is a sign of a good leader? No, it's not. Being a good leader is being able to assess the situation, building and
maintaining trust, having a thorough understanding of who you are working with. Buffy doesn't do any of those three. She never assessed the situations involving Spike's trigger and the vineyard, she constantly insults people at every turn, and not maintaining trust and she doesn't understand that people will despise you (and rightly so) if you boss them around and treat them like dirt. No compassion for Buffy, at all.
