Discussing Fanfic: We Will Remember Them... by Lilachigh

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Black Thorn
We Will Remember Them
In 1943, to save Dru, Spike agrees to go to France to save the Slayer who is held captive by the Germans. In 2000 Sunnydale, Buffy - newly returned from the grave and in a relationship with Spike - agrees to time travel back to France to save a Slayer and kill a vampire.

Have fun 🙂
 
Okay, I am starting to complain 🙂 Yes, we do eat Sauerkraut. But no, we don`t eat it for breakfast. Eeeewwwww....
Spikes hair was black and slicked back when he was on that submarine with Angel, so it shouldn`t be curly and Brown.
There was a "blimey" in it for you, @Priceless and I don`t see Buffy travelling back in time without telling anyone about it. And the fact, Spike never said "Good to see you again", when they first met at the Bronze, should have made her very suspicious, at least after she first met him in France.

But so far I am really enjoying this. It is very well written and a lot of fun. I am excited to read on.

flow
 
Yes, we do eat Sauerkraut. But no, we don`t eat it for breakfast

Last time I was in Germany (over 30 years ago) we had cake for breakfast. I've got to admire a country that has cake for breakfast. If it helps - I had similar problems with the "Englishness" of it.

Initially the opening paragraph grated - “rotten cigarette” sounded so clumsy. On reflection, though it sounded right for the 40s. I’ll be honest, I also googled “You can co-co” – not for meaning but for anachronism and it’s historically correct. What the rhetoric does for me is evoke the war and immediate post war propaganda films. I don't mean ideologically but in terms of cadence. It's stilted and I don't know whether this is a flaw or deliberate. There's also the "class" issue to consider. Spike - I think - is sometimes more bigoted than some of the other characters (a tendancy to use Poofter and make statements such as "smarmy, another upper-class wanker ". I'm not sure whether this is reflective of a certain insecurity (so bravado); whether it's meant to signify he's a product of a certain time/place or whether it's because he's been the target of what he sees as bigotry for so long. Alternatively, it could be performance to cover up his own upper-class origins. Or a combination of all the above. He's certainly nationalistic (though he tries to hide it) but I'm not sure whether this is the result of needing to belong.

so it shouldn`t be curly and Brown
Oh yes it should! Hopefully someone pointed out that the submarine look was not a good look and that shoe polish was for shoes not hair. Seriously, I thought artifice was a feature of Spike so this didn't bother me - again, perhaps I'm giving her credit for sloppy thinking. It's interesting that he initially refers to Angel as Angel - later it's Liam. I'm not sure whether this is an error or whether the shift is significant. I didn't notice it yesterday - can you keep an eye out for it please?
 
I am at chapter 10 and I am enjoying it very much. Don't have any clever remark yet cuz as soon as I realize something is bugging me it turns out it is supposed to bug me like why Spike did not remember meeting her. I am waiting for these answers and I like the suspense. Giles doing what he did is not too out of character because he did do similar stuff though making so many references of Buffy killing Angel is a lil mean but thats just a tiny complaint I have so far. I am loving this Spike. I m surely going to read other books from this writer because his/her Spike is soooooo yummy
 
Yikes! How did I get so far behind? There's cake? For beadfast? Can't wait. I've read chapter one and totally didn't get that coco line. It's started off light hearted with lots of yearning for bad spuffy loving on Buffy's part so hey, what can go wrong?
 
Yikes! How did I get so far behind? There's cake? For beadfast? Can't wait. I've read chapter one and totally didn't get that coco line. It's started off light hearted with lots of yearning for bad spuffy loving on Buffy's part so hey, what can go wrong?

Absolutely nothing. World War II - just a blip on the radar when compared to bad Spuffy loving! I vaguely remember a mention of atomic warfare but it doesn't knock her off her...err...stroke. The co-co line's in there - it's not something you make up. Actually - I read it all last night - I'm on my second read. In fact, I think I've lapped you!🙂

I should add - he says "Don’t get your knickers in a twist" and - as far as I can tell this is anachronistic. I can't find a mention of it before the 60s (I really need to get out more. It's a bad sign when Google is your ONLY friend). 🙁
 
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I've read the first 4 chapters now, trying not to be lapped by @TriBel but not succeeding. I'm enjoying it so far. War time changes people. I can see that Buffy would have a hard time killing Germans (no matter how much cake they give her ) because she doesn't have the WWII perspective. The cake bits just a joke. Although the story is serious I'm enjoying the light hearted feel it has. That's one of the things I love about BTVS - how if mixes humour with scary with serious all at the same time.
 
I've reached chapter 12. I quite like the story. Yes there are some completely OOC moments but some great spuffyness too. Love that line of Giles saying she sent angel to hell to save the world but she would risk he world to save Spike (paraphrasing) but at same time don't think that Giles would let travers do anything of harm to Buffy
after the cruciatmentum.
 
Oh I remember this fic. I'm still reading With a Painted Ribbon (I just haven't had time for fanfic recently) so I won't get the chance to reread this one with you guys. I'll be interested to see what you all think of it.
I reckon I would have given it around 5 out of 10, it's a good read, interesting and I like it when stories manage to be a bit unique so it definitely gets credit for that. I vaguely remember thinking their attitudes towards each other were too easy/convenient to just serve the story needs, especially their responses/behaviour to each other in the past. Pretty sure there was a musing about how much the soul was needed too from Buffy at one point that I found a bit ridiculous (didn't pastSpike kill someone in front of her at one point, I might be misremembering). Anyway, the ending is neat in how Buffy saved her own life, tying the past through to Buffy's present with Hank, it will be interesting to hear what you all think of it. 🙂
 
Just finished Chapter 13. Another good Spuffy road story. I guess that's just about the only way that there can really be a Spuffy story set more or less within the guidelines of canon that actually allows the two principal characters to interact without having to worry about well meaning, but unwelcome, interference from Gilles and the others.
 
GoSpuffy
GoSpuffy
Good point!
I like our timing for reading the story with Remembrance Day this week and that poem starting every chapter. Did spike use the work proxy in the show? It seems like everything is proxy this and proxy that. But I'm still enjoying the story.
 
It seems like everything is proxy this and proxy that
I missed that - but then I read it in a couple of hours just to get the plot out of the way. I don't recall him using the word proxy in the show but there are quite a few things in this that are "standing in" for things in the show without being metaphors. I'm not sure how much I can post because I can't do spoilers.
 
LOL! Poxy I imagine is okay - relates to smallpox? Yup - just checked - dates from just before he was born. I also checked wanker - it's such a shame this is a work lap top. Still stuff that's proxy though - I'm having a great time with it. He call's her "Yankee Doodle Dandy" - the film came out in 1942. I'm guessing he went to the cinema before he started watching soaps. See "proxy"! 🙂
 
GoSpuffy
GoSpuffy
Dumb auto spell check - poxy not proxy
I'm on chapter 12 and am enjoying it. I like the setting, it's unusual, I've never read another fic set in WWII. I like the Spuffy we're seeing, with the two of them working together and Buffy trying to to give away too much about their relationship. It's also got some intrigue, such as where is Joy and the Resistance, why has Giles betrayed Buffy and will his magical rescue work? So far so good
 
Okay - this is a fairly serious post so bear with me. The historical context was the reason I wanted to read this but it's also the reason I'm being cautious about what I say in an open forum. However, @GoSpuffy 's mention of Buffy's "perspective" has given me a way in - simply because I'm not sure there's one perspective on the events of WWII. For this reason (and the reason I don't know that much about it), I'm using broad strokes (also, I tend not to make serious claims unless I've read something 5/6 times in quick succession). WWII was the deadliest conflict ever. Wiki is giving between 70 million and 85 million as the number of casualties - 3-4% of the world's population. It's impossible to say how or why it started; why people fought in it and why people did what they did. The question remains whether vampires inhumanity towards man pales into insignificance when compared to man's inhumanity towards man - particularly since vampires are supposedly driven by natural instincts and not cultural/economic/socio-political wants, needs and desires. I don't know whether I've taken that question from my FIRST reading of the text or whether it was a presupposition I took with me and I'm imposing it ON the text. I'm re-reading but - as yet - I'm only on Chapter 7. Let me know!

Much of what follows is from yesterday and the first reading. I may well change my mind. I found it interesting that Spike's initial involvement was because of love - Buffy's was duty (or do I need to reframe this as love for the human race? If so, is this naïve or idealistic)? The second German soldier she sees is only saved by chance. Is her justification - that he dies if he stands in the way of the mission - good enough? Are we in S7 territory? The mission is all that matters? Do we need to take the fact that she was betrayed by Giles and Travers into account?).

I liked the fact that Governments remain a shadowy figure in the background (the subterfuge/untrustworthiness of certain characters reminded me of writers like Le Carre). Roosevelt is implied by the reference to Yankee Doodle Dandy, Hitler is named in person. I'm not sure about the Vichy Government but perhaps they're implied by the Resistance (of course - De Gaulle). To misquote Basil Fawlty - Am I not supposed to mention the war? Is it just a backdrop?

The excess of meaning in the extract from Binyon I really like. It has a doubleness, a duplicity, that suggests what I've written above may not be far from the mark. It also begs the question of how or why we remember. Is memory a form of forgetting? Is it personal or – in part cultural? Do nations have memories - a socio-imaginary?

I like the fact the third person omniscient narrator (?) lets us see the double-edge of her reasoning and how she actively supresses one side of the argument: “She could almost feel her brain hurting. If Spike failed - the desire to have Dru gone was overwhelming and she would be saving Kendra’s life! But – Buffy ruthlessly squashed the little voice inside her head that whispered not only did she hate Dru, but she was blackly jealous of her as well!” LOL! Takes some of the guesswork away – so much easier in language than film. The vacillation is there in Spike but because he has no previous knowledge it’s easier for him to justify. Makes sense.

I anticipated some of the end but there was a reveal I thought was genius – a real Keyser Söze moment. There's also a big clue fairly early on but I don't want to say too much about it if you haven't spotted it.
 
Just finished Chapter 25, and I have only one real complaint, or more, actually, an irritation.

Our Buffy never, ever, to my memory, used the word, "Jeez."

Also, as much as we all really wish that it had happened that way, it was pretty well established that Buffy and Spike shared a pretty much totally carnal relationship in Season 6, no tender yearnings or gentle kisses. Don't get me wrong, I do like the story, but I think that it would have worked out better if it had been post Season 7, before Buffy actually found out that Spike had returned. Her feelings would have seemed more realistic to me, and more in keeping with the actual story line.

Just saying...
 
Our Buffy never, ever, to my memory, used the word, "Jeez."
Doesn't mean it's not a word she would use 🙂 I could, by the way, totally see her using that. I've probably had her use it in my own stories before, too. To me it's just a very Buffy word.

Anyway, I'm glad you guys are enjoying it. I was worried, when I personally gave up a dozen or so chapters in, that I would have to apologize for picking this story, ha! I definitely liked it better first time I read it, this time I couldn't get past some of the writing or the forced connection between past Spuffy or the fact that WWII was only background and not really delved into. Just, I couldn't 🙂
 
I am at chapter 26 and I still really love the story. It reminds me a bit of the movie TheGreat Escape. Not the plot of course - that is completely different - , but the mood. I also do feel, Spike and Buffy are constantly on the run for no obvious reason, but it works out nicely for the Story.

What pushes me off a bit, is, as @white avenger said, that Buffys feelings towards S6 Spike are completely out of canon. She does not trust him and has not admitted to herself, that she loves him and she surely does not feel, that the chip has changed him substantially. The story tells us, that the chip has the same effect on Spike as the soul will later have (which he wouldn`t Need, if it were so). But I can live with that and still enjoy the story. I will try to say something about the historical setting, but I want to finish the fic first.

flow

Edit To Add: I wondered, how you`d pronounce this: a Fljeeisj demon 🙂
 
I didnt get much time today to read still on chp 12 but i am really enjoying it. Have not felt Buffy any unlike season 6 yet but that might be because I am way behind. As far as I am on the story Buffy is very aware of Spike's physical attraction but no mention of love as of yet and she had intentionally or unintentionally started trusting him by season 6 so thats there and thats why she keeps comparing past Spike with her Spike. And I am really loving the jealous Buffy. Her jealousy of Dru is something I enjoy a lot
 
Well, I've finished it, but I'm not going to go into any details and spoil it for everyone else.I will say, nice ending.

Another great Buffy/Spike road trip, with a side order of Nazis, witches, and enchanted toads thrown in to add a little extra flair..
 
I'm done too and agree with @white avenger , all in all a really good read. It is true this was more a S7 Buffy than a S6 Buffy but I think we're supposed to feel being separated from her family and friends she realized her love earlier and I'm fine with that. It definitely has that "destined to be together" vibe for spuffy that I like.
 
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