Discussing Fanfic: What She Deserves and Lovingkindness by Herself

F

flow

Scooby
Joined
May 4, 2017
Messages
813
It is time for a new week of fanfic reading ! This week we will go for two probably controversial stories. We already have our first comment by our @TriBel :

"I'm about half way though - TBH, I shouldn't be reading it at all - I'm reading it because I didn't want to do what I should be doing. I like it because it's not all direct speech but it's hard! I don't mean difficult to read - and it's not a reflection on content. It seems - hard-edged. It's not that it's graphic. It feels as though it wants to have sentiment but can't. I'm not sure I'm enjoying it."

I am curious to see, how many of us will make us through both stories - if any ;-)

As always, everyone, who is new to this board or the Back Steps Fanclub or to our fanfic discussion group, is warmly welcome to join us and to jump right into our discussion.

I want to point out, that both fics contain sexual situations between Spike and another male character and also physical violence.

And now, lets get started:

What She Deserves by Herself

Lovingkindness by Herself

flow
 
Only the nc17 stuff needs you to join. It's worthwhile though to keep track of what you've read. Plus lots of BB members post stories on this site so it's fun to read them.
 
So glad I made my way here tonight - was looking for discussions on the Season 11 finale and saw this. I absolutely love this Fanfiction writer and have been a fan of her works for several years now. Actually since I began reading fanfiction while the series aired. However, it's been a long time since I read these stories - need to refresh before I discuss. How long does the discussion go on for? This is the story with Jack?
 
@PaulParmar1 : Elysian Fields is a wonderful site for Spuffy fanfic. It is still very active and new stories are published every day. I also find it very comfortable to read there. If you want to get into fanfic, you should definitely register there.
Have you read fanfic before ? You are very welcome to join us with this weeks stories, but if you are new to fanfic, we could also recommend some stories, that are maybe a bit more more lighthearted for a start.

@nmcil12 : It is great to have you on board ! Yes, it is the story with Jack. We usually start on Fridays and the discussion is open for a week. Everyone reads at his own pace and posts their thoughts, while their are reading. There are no rules whatsoever, so just start discussing !

flow
 
I began reading this last night and I already love it. It's a 10/10 for me. Spike's pain is just so visceral and I love fics that are a little darker in tone. I can't wait for them to reconnect
 
I am debating on whether to deduct a point because Spike fell to his knees in the subway and clung to Buffy. That action always reminds me of when Angel came back from hell, and that took me right out of the story 🙁
 
Finished What She Deserves. I actually got a little teary in places; the postcard to Jack, Buffy realising they had a connection but could do nothing about it and when she talks in he sleeep about those 'silly monks'. I thought it was so well written and their inner thoughts were expressed beautifully. Thanks @flow, I'm so glad I read this. 10/10
 
I'm ba-a-a-a-ck... Great tournament, everyone had fun at the pasture party, so I'm free again.

Just read "What she deserves," and my first impression was, "Another Buffy/Spike road trip..." but, getting into it, I do have to admit that the story was well written, and even refreshing.The other characters were actually included in the story, if only by mentioning that they were away somewhere else (Xander going to England was interesting, but some small hint as to why he had gone, without going into too many details as to distract from the real story would have been nice) Also, the sort of skidding around the question of whether Spike actually went to Africa to get a soul was good, and, hey, we've tossed canon out the window anyway, so what the heck, why not?

The sex scene, when it finally did happen, was well handled without resorting to too graphic details, making it more romance than porn, and Spike's, "I've gotta go somewhere and clear my head before I can face all your friends," thing wasn't any real surprise.

All in all, a fun read, without being unnecessarily long, and I look forward to the sequel.
 
I am so glad, you liked it ! I was really uncertain about this myself. I loved it, when I first read it, but it is - as @TriBel said - hard-edged.

I loved it, that we see Spike really struggeling with the pain and the remorse after the Soul. he has mentioned it in S7, when he talked about self-loathing but it was only glimpsed upon and I find the way Herself deals with this pain in her Story rather appropiate.

What I also did love, was, that Buffy - different from the series - found out about the soul by herself. That adds more insight to her personality. And I loved, how she cared for Spike not only after she found out, but also before. That she tried to show him a purpose in life and tried to make him eat. And although Spikes character was darker, than I usually see him in fanfiction, there were also glimpses of his Humor and his impulsivity, for example when he discovers, that Buffy has damaged his beloved DeSoto, or when he is angry about that slime demon having eaten his leather jacket 🙂

I want to quote two lines, that are my favorites from this story. The first is from Spike, after Buffy is pissed off, because he calls her Slayer all the time instead of Buffy: "Your name. Ah, but . . . you can't know what your name does to me . . . is to me . . . here." Touched himself lightly on the chest, and turned away. "

The other line was, when he and Buffy aretakinge the subway to a cemetary:
"Spike could've sworn this was the same car where he'd done for Nikki—it was of the same vintage, anyroad. Probably another in the series of object lessons from The Powers That Be." That one really made me smile.

flow
 
flow said:
I'm not sure I'm enjoying it
Click to expand...

Can I just point out this is my existential mantra? It covers everything in my life with the exception of Haribo sweets and Bombay mix. 🙂 I'm rarely "moved" (which is why I was surprised by the first fan-fic I read - and why I'm (nicely) envious of those who are). I'm also a very bad reader - and viewer. 🙁 By "hard-edged" I probably meant - it didn't reach out to me and I couldn't prise my way in. I suspect I need writing driven by its own poetics rather than plot. I feel more for language than I do character. Can someone persuade Toni Morrison to write fan fic please?
 
Okay, "Lovingkindness." I have to say, I really didn't enjoy this one as much as the first. It was very dark, and I'm not really a fan of dark fiction. I knew Jack's fate was sealed from the moment that he showed up, so that didn't really surprise me all that much. Once more, a good story, that ended up fairly well sorted out in the end.

I like this writer, but would rather see something of hers on a somewhat lighter vein. If I'm gonna have alternate reality Spuffy, I want more laughter and happiness and less tears and gloom.
 
I liked Lovingkindness but it wasn't as good as What She Deserves. I loved the Spike/Jack relationship and was so happy Spike felt someone loved him as he wanted to be loved, even though it was illusionary/delusional. I hadn't picked up on Jack wanting to be turned in WSD, did everyone else? I thought he was like Riley and enjoyed the blood letting.

I liked the comparison of Buffy having to kill Angel and Spike having to kill Jack. That felt like a real connection between them that could bring a deeper understanding.

My problem was with how quickly Spike and Buffy got together after Jack's death. It felt rushed. I wish they'd gone slower and we'd seen more of Spike's guilt. I also wasn't a fan of Willow in this story. Why did she feel the need to visit Jack in hospital? She didn't help anyone and annoyed me 🙂
 
white avenger said:
I like this writer, but would rather see something of hers on a somewhat lighter vein
Click to expand...

I am afraid, you probably won`t find anything like that by Herself. After I randomly found Lovingkindness, I looked into every single Story of her on EF and they are all very dark and most of them I didn`t like at all.

Priceless said:
Why did she feel the need to visit Jack in hospital? She didn't help anyone and annoyed me 🙂
Click to expand...

I think, she wanted to give Jack the advise, to get put of the unhealthy realtionship with Spike. That was a bit strange, because she didn`t know Jack at all, but on the other hand, he had neither friends nor Family and so maybe she felt like she had to step in.

I actually liked Lovingkindness better than the first one. I was fascinated by Spikes and Jacks very unhealthy relationship and by Buffy standing outside and not being able to do anything about it. Jacks death was not really surprising, but I thought the scene in itself was beautiful. @Priceless - I don`t think Jack wanted to be turned from the beginning on. But maybe he believed at some point, that he could be more what Spike wanted or needed, if he was a vampire. I think it was more about his desire to be with Spike forever than about him wanting to be a soulless evil vampire.

flow
 
flow said:
I am afraid, you probably won`t find anything like that by Herself. After I randomly found Lovingkindness, I looked into every single Story of her on EF and they are all very dark and most of them I didn`t like at all.
Click to expand...

This is my sort of fic, so I might try to read a few more of hers.

flow said:
I think, she wanted to give Jack the advise, to get put of the unhealthy realtionship with Spike. That was a bit strange, because she didn`t know Jack at all, but on the other hand, he had neither friends nor Family and so maybe she felt like she had to step in.
Click to expand...

It felt to me like Willow was simply interfering, because she didn't know Jack. It read very awkwardly to me.

flow said:
I actually liked Lovingkindness better than the first one. I was fascinated by Spikes and Jacks very unhealthy relationship and by Buffy standing outside and not being able to do anything about it. Jacks death was not really surprising, but I thought the scene in itself was beautiful. @Priceless - I don`t think Jack wanted to be turned from the beginning on. But maybe he believed at some point, that he could be more what Spike wanted or needed, if he was a vampire. I think it was more about his desire to be with Spike forever than about him wanting to be a soulless evil vampire.
Click to expand...

Spike and Jack were great. Both so deeply damaged and a reflection of each other. There's a sense of narcissism there, but also the wish to redeem yourself. A very complex and interesting relationship. I loved Jack's death, and the affect it had on Spike, which is why it seemed very quick for Spike to get over that and go with Buffy. Although I guess he was always connected to Buffy. Perhaps it was Spikes relationship with Buffy that made Jack want to become a vampire, so they share some responsibility for that. I did feel Jack loved Spike as much as Spike loved Buffy. What a sad tale 🙁
 
Great discussion - I hope that I get to read these before the you close the discussion - unfortunately I am very busy having to work on RL art project - at the very least I can read the first story.
 
And the things he'd not been able to make her do, unless she was bound hand and foot first. Accept rains of soft kisses on her eyelids, her cheeks, her lips, her nipples. Each gust followed by the whispered tendresses she didn't permit him to say when she was free to jam her hand hard against his mouth. Shut up and ****, Spike. Heading off his attempts to make love to her by slamming him back, taking before he could give what she was never going to accept. Not from a monster.

This is a powerful commentary on Buffy – to me it’s an element of the character and her relationship – it’s like she uses her guilt and projection as the confessional – she can cleanse herself and find mercy and grace back to goodness after her sins.

Spike liked her to bruise him. There was nothing she'd dished out that he wasn't glad to take. There was nothing she'd needed in bed that he couldn't bestow. Ten erections in a night: no problem. Two hours worshipping between her thighs, no need to come up for air: he was there. Every position, every flavor, every orifice: there was nothing Spike hadn't done before, nothing he wasn't masterful at, and happy to give her. All for nothing in return but an insult and a kick in the head.



Hello. Not going to start feeling sorry for him now. It was just a bad year. Bad bad—woooWEE. Bad. But I'm better now.

One thing I like so much about this writer is that she does not back off from the harsh truths with her exploration of her characters – plus I love her use of words and cadence.

"Don't hurt him," she murmured.

"No more than he likes."

And here they are – Jack is like Buffy – they both want Spike to give them pain and sexual pleasures – how much if anything is about actually loving him and how much is emotional needs of Jack & Buffy. With Buffy we already know what she understands as her truth. With Jack – it’s a combination of desires, physicality and hopes for his potential future.

Priceless Said:

Spike and Jack were great. Both so deeply damaged and a reflection of each other. There's a sense of narcissism there, but also the wish to redeem yourself. A very complex and interesting relationship.

Great point! And it’s a reflection on Buffy and Spike who also were so damaged and inflicted so much pain on each other.

Hope to finish the story on Sunday – have to get back to work now.
 
nmcil12 said:
Great discussion - I hope that I get to read these before the you close the discussion - unfortunately I am very busy having to work on RL art project - at the very least I can read the first story.
 
And the things he'd not been able to make her do, unless she was bound hand and foot first. Accept rains of soft kisses on her eyelids, her cheeks, her lips, her nipples. Each gust followed by the whispered tendresses she didn't permit him to say when she was free to jam her hand hard against his mouth. Shut up and ****, Spike. Heading off his attempts to make love to her by slamming him back, taking before he could give what she was never going to accept. Not from a monster.

This is a powerful commentary on Buffy – to me it’s an element of the character and her relationship – it’s like she uses her guilt and projection as the confessional – she can cleanse herself and find mercy and grace back to goodness after her sins.

Spike liked her to bruise him. There was nothing she'd dished out that he wasn't glad to take. There was nothing she'd needed in bed that he couldn't bestow. Ten erections in a night: no problem. Two hours worshipping between her thighs, no need to come up for air: he was there. Every position, every flavor, every orifice: there was nothing Spike hadn't done before, nothing he wasn't masterful at, and happy to give her. All for nothing in return but an insult and a kick in the head.



Hello. Not going to start feeling sorry for him now. It was just a bad year. Bad bad—woooWEE. Bad. But I'm better now.

One thing I like so much about this writer is that she does not back off from the harsh truths with her exploration of her characters – plus I love her use of words and cadence.

"Don't hurt him," she murmured.

"No more than he likes."

And here they are – Jack is like Buffy – they both want Spike to give them pain and sexual pleasures – how much if anything is about actually loving him and how much is emotional needs of Jack & Buffy. With Buffy we already know what she understands as her truth. With Jack – it’s a combination of desires, physicality and hopes for his potential future.

Priceless Said:

Spike and Jack were great. Both so deeply damaged and a reflection of each other. There's a sense of narcissism there, but also the wish to redeem yourself. A very complex and interesting relationship.

Great point! And it’s a reflection on Buffy and Spike who also were so damaged and inflicted so much pain on each other.

Hope to finish the story on Sunday – have to get back to work now.
Click to expand...

It's good to have another person in the fanfic discussion, so welcome 🙂 If you have any fics you'd like to recommend, please feel free to suggest them, we're always on the look out a for a good read.

I think you're right about the inter-connectedness of all three personalities, all looking for similar things from the other, and all needing some form of 'saving'.
 
I read the last two stories in the series and weren't very good. The first was porn, be it very well written and the fourth was a not se well written proposal fic. It was vaguely ridiculous, with Spike asking Buffy to marry him. The first two were so good, I fel a bit let down by the last two 🙁
 
nmcil12 said:
This is a powerful commentary on Buffy – to me it’s an element of the character and her relationship – it’s like she uses her guilt and projection as the confessional – she can cleanse herself and find mercy and grace back to goodness after her sins.
Click to expand...

Yes, it is very powerful writing. It is very different, from most, what I have read so far in fanfic. But as you said, it is the harsh truth. Nothing fluffy in this story.

I agree, that the story reflects how Buffy and Spike hurt each other in S6. I think, that at least Lovingkindness reflects that in reversed roles. It is now Spike, who can`t love Jack, but needs, what Jack can give him nevertheless and it is Jack who loves Spike desperately and unrequited. And Buffy, is watching it all from the outside, not being able to help either one of them.

Priceless said:
I read the last two stories in the series and weren't very good
Click to expand...

I warned you 🙂 I don`t know why, but I disliked every other story of Herself. Not only the last two in this series but every other story, she has published on EF. I think there is one left, that I haven`t tried so far. If I change my mind on that one, I will let you know.

flow
 
flow said:
Yes, it is very powerful writing. It is very different, from most, what I have read so far in fanfic. But as you said, it is the harsh truth. Nothing fluffy in this story.

I agree, that the story reflects how Buffy and Spike hurt each other in S6. I think, that at least Lovingkindness reflects that in reversed roles. It is now Spike, who can`t love Jack, but needs, what Jack can give him nevertheless and it is Jack who loves Spike desperately and unrequited. And Buffy, is watching it all from the outside, not being able to help either one of them.



I warned you 🙂 I don`t know why, but I disliked every other story of Herself. Not only the last two in this series but every other story, she has published on EF. I think there is one left, that I haven`t tried so far. If I change my mind on that one, I will let you know.

flow
Click to expand...

This writer falls into a select category - many readers have great positive response to her works or they don't care for them - not from the writing skills but more from the material and her treatment. She has been for years one of my favorite writers and one of my all time favorite works is I believe the darkest story that she ever wrote titled A Terrible Thing. It comes in two sections with the first being the darkest, but I think a realistic exploration based on Spike in the series but Spike as a human who has completely given up on life and the second part is the story of Spike after he makes changes to this human life that he absolutely hated. I'm don't know the history of these two works regarding when they were written - the first part is totally devastating so it's nice to have a second part that does not leave both characters in the darkest despair.

I been busy all day and only just now have a chance to get back to reading WSD - hope I can get the second one finished in time to discuss.

I do have to say that I like having Buffy in this status as observer and third party that has real concern for the other two. I have always like works that have Spike in a "taking more control of his life relationships." Herself does it from a different perspective where Spike is trying to take control by inflicting his own self-punishment as control mechanism. She took the theme of "soul having" as a transformation tool but it's goes not bring him a connection with the "grace or mercy" instead its his personal ticket to emotional hell.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom