Discussion Drive Episode 1.03 "Let the Games Begin" Aired 04/16/07 on Fox

[Wicked]

I agree. Nathan Fillion or not, the show is great. there are plenty of other characters too, all just as good.

An Point Pleasant was good 😛

 

[Schillaci]

My first reaction is that's just so not true. I'm really getting into this show, but you do kind of have a point in that if I didn't know who those guys were I wouldn't be watching it.

Bullshit. If these guys were not invloved you wouldn't so easily ignore the holes, the twists that don't service the story just the audience, the acting, the bad CGI(or whatever its called).

I used to be a Marti Noxon fan, but then came Point Pleasant, and now I'm not.

I used to hate Drew Z Greenberg's writing, but then came Dexter, and now I'm a fan.

I can't speak for anyone else, but me, I'm totally fickle.

Totally, totally.

Me too, it's like, When Mr Whedon makes something that is just average I totally call him on it, you too eh?

Actually I phone him up and tell him that I'm no longer a part of his fan club. That shows these fools!

🙂

 

[nerd4hire]

You say I wouldn't ignore the holes if I wasn't a fan of the talent. You're wrong. I'm a fan of 24. Did you ever see the Kim stalked by a cougar episode, or the one where Jack says something like "There's a helicopter on the roof loaded with armed gunmen. We have to escape. Quick, to the roof." I can overlook gaps in logic, if I can suspend my disbelief overall.

Anyway, Drive isn't even close to being the most unreasonable genre show on television. Overall I find it real comfortable slipping into the character's lives.

Speaking of having one's opinion warped by one's world view though, I suggest it is you with the problem. If that wasn't the case you couldn't make blatantly false statements like there's a problem with the acting, or the CGI. Both those areas are superior to what else is out there.

When you're critical of the twists, this tells me you don't get it. Those aren't always cosmetic. Quite often they have purpose. Watch for significance, specifically little arrows pointing at underlying motivations in the characters.

You're thinking of drive as a car chase show. It only is that on the surface. It's more about what "Drives" the characters. It is in fact character driven.

 

[Schillaci]

You say I wouldn't ignore the holes if I wasn't a fan of the talent. You're wrong. I'm a fan of 24. Did you ever see the Kim stalked by a cougar episode, or the one where Jack says something like "There's a helicopter on the roof loaded with armed gunmen. We have to escape. Quick, to the roof." I can overlook gaps in logic, if I can suspend my disbelief overall.

Has no relevance whatsoever.

Anyway, Drive isn't even close to being the most unreasonable genre show on television. Overall I find it real comfortable slipping into their lives.

So, you've a criminal past? Otherwise, your statement makes no sense.

Speaking of having one's opinion warped by one's world view though, I suggest it is you with the problem. If that wasn't the case you couldn't make blatantly false statements like there's a problem with the acting, or the CGI. Both those areas are superior to what else is out there.

You're deluded, but I knew that.

When you're critical of the twists, this tells me you don't get it. Those aren't always cosmetic. Quite often they have purpose. Watch for significance, specifically little arrows pointing at underlying motivations in the characters.

Yes, because you know what's goiung to happen for the rest of the show don't you? Therefore you're in the know with current twists. Oh, wait, you don't know, you're just guessing that they have some relevance that services the characters in a way that will enhance the overall show. Therefore disingenuously praising the show for things that you don't know will pan out.

You're thinking of drive as a car chase show. It only is that on the surface. It's more about what "Drives" the characters. It is in fact character driven.

Actually I'm thinking you're an idiot, and I'm wondering what I shall have for dinner.

 

[teentitan]

N4H and Dzughashvili are Buffy Boards version of Ebert and Roper and I think we should give them a forumn and we throw a tv show or topic at them. Think of it as BB's version of Thunderdome...2 men enter 1 man leaves. lol.

 

[nerd4hire]

I always know my argument has the superior kung fu when the other side's degenerates into personal attacks. What they're really saying is, "You make some good points, but you're a big poophead".

 

[Schillaci]

I always know my argument has the superior kung fu when the other side's degenerates into personal attacks. What they're really saying is, "You make some good points, but you're a big poophead".

Are you that braindead? Is the truth considered a personal attack these days? I was making statements about you, and your judgement in relation to this topic. Completely relevant.

You say I wouldn't ignore the holes if I wasn't a fan of the talent. You're wrong. I'm a fan of 24. Did you ever see the Kim stalked by a cougar episode, or the one where Jack says something like "There's a helicopter on the roof loaded with armed gunmen. We have to escape. Quick, to the roof." I can overlook gaps in logic, if I can suspend my disbelief overall.

Anyway, Drive isn't even close to being the most unreasonable genre show on television. Overall I find it real comfortable slipping into the character's lives.

Speaking of having one's opinion warped by one's world view though, I suggest it is you with the problem. If that wasn't the case you couldn't make blatantly false statements like there's a problem with the acting, or the CGI. Both those areas are superior to what else is out there.

When you're critical of the twists, this tells me you don't get it. Those aren't always cosmetic. Quite often they have purpose. Watch for significance, specifically little arrows pointing at underlying motivations in the characters.

You're thinking of drive as a car chase show. It only is that on the surface. It's more about what "Drives" the characters. It is in fact character driven.

Oh yeah, proof that Drive is a superior show! However did you outwit me!!

Oh, that's right, you didn't.

All you have written is poorly thought out opinion. I have merely retorted by laughing at you. Primarily because your opinion is idiotic, biased, and naive.

 

[nerd4hire]

OK, so I suggest you've run out of argument other than personal attack. You respond with personal attack. Do you plan to tire of proving me right soon?

Basically, you don't like the show. Other's do. What's the problem? Even if they are first attracted to it by talented people they've noticed in the past. So what?

You suggest it isn't possible to like this show without being in some way brainwashed by who's involved. I suggest that isn't the case. I see fans of these writers, and actors criticizing them often. I didn't like Firefly at first. My eventual affection for it, had nothing to do with the actors, or writers. I would have been quite content to write the show off as a dud from talented people. What happened however was the characters in the show eventually grew on me, and I started to like it.

 

[Schillaci]

OK, so I suggest you've run out of argument other than personal attack. You respond with personal attack. Do you plan to tire of proving me right soon?

You questioned my intelligence first. I believe you responded with "personal attack" before me. I questioned the validity of your statements.

Basically, you don't like the show.

Incorrect.

Other's do. What's the problem? Even if they are first attracted to it by talented people they've noticed in the past. So what?

My problem is 3 EPISODES IN you cannot hail this show as great. You do not know enough, therefore you are simply ass kissing.

You suggest it isn't possible to like this show without being in some way brainwashed by who's involved.

You can't lie when other people can also read what I have written. Please, though, keep trying to twist my words, it's hilarious how pathetic you are at it.

 

[nerd4hire]

First of all let's establish where the line is. You know you're not allowed to do the name calling thing, so don't do it. I edited a one word insulting name from your last post.

But back to Drive. I disagree as to whether, or not it's possible to establish an opinion based on three episodes. You can like those three episodes. You can call them great. It's also kosher to imply this great start gives hope the quality will continue.

I like the depth of the characters I've seen so far, and the idea there may be more for us to discover in upcoming episodes. The dialogue has flashes of wit, and consistent character integrity. I like the surprises that keep appearing in the story, and the constant challenging of expectations. The general look of the show, I find cool. The effects are seamless and integrated well into the story rather than flopped out to say "Hey, look at this". I think the thing I like the best though is the way this whole new mythology is being created in front of me. Yes. I think it's great.

This all is separate of my fanboying Minear. I'm thinking of another show I fanboy - Doctor Who. I'm a Russell T Davies fan. I don't much care for Torchwood though. So how is it it's possible to make a distinction there between fan affection for a creator of art, and the individual creation of the art itself, yet the assumption is it's not possible with Minear. Are you suggesting Tim Minear has some special power of influence.

 

[Schillaci]

First of all let's establish where the line is. You know you're not allowed to do the name calling thing, so don't do it. I edited a one word insulting name from your last post.

But back to Drive. I disagree as to whether, or not it's possible to establish an opinion based on three episodes. You can like those three episodes. You can call them great. It's also kosher to imply this great start gives hope the quality will continue.

I like the depth of the characters I've seen so far, and the idea there may be more for us to discover in upcoming episodes. The dialogue has flashes of wit, and consistent character integrity. I like the surprises that keep appearing in the story, and the constant challenging of expectations. The general look of the show, I find cool. The effects are seamless and integrated well into the story rather than flopped out to say "Hey, look at this". I think the thing I like the best though is the way this whole new mythology is being created in front of me. Yes. I think it's great.

There are several issues I have with what you've written, but I really can't be bothered, maybe tomorrow I'll screw around with it.

Are you suggesting Tim Minear has some special power of influence.

Over you, you mean? Not at all. If you want my opinion as to why you are seeing great where there is, at the best, only ok, then I will give it. It's actually quite obvious. You are, as you have stated, a Minear fanboy, his previous two or three shows have been cancelled. This show has been in the works for some time, it's been quite a rollercoaster ride getting it to the screen, one that's you've ardently followed. You want this project to work so much. Because of this your judgement is impaired. You have no objectivity. I also have a feeling that you root for the underdog.

I had two answers, I think this one's the most plausible.

 

[nerd4hire]

Even if that were true though - which I suggest it is not - how would you explain the others here who have similar affection for this new show? Are they all misguided by some personal investment? Do none of them know what they really like?

I must admit though, you do have me rethinking something. On a Drive fansite I read a complaint from a Drive fan concerning the acting of the woman who plays Corrina. Personally I like her acting, but you've got me wondering now, am I missing something? Is she really this horrible actress, but I just don't get it. I don't think so though. I'm pretty sure I've seen her in other stuff, and I never had a problem with her.

Another thing is the music. I've heard a scattered collection of niggles about that. It hasn't really attracted my attention one way, or the other. Am I just refusing to hear it though, because maybe it's not great.

I'll be paying attention to stuff like that when I watch tomorrow's episode.

 

[Schillaci]

Even if that were true though - which I suggest it is not - how would you explain the others here who have similar affection for this new show? Are they all misguided by some personal investment? Do none of them know what they really like?

Randy the Supernatural fan? His favourite show.
Or Wicked, what was the other show she mentioned in this thread that was good? Oh yea, Point Pleasant.

Ok, we've eliminated (Edit. personal insults)(said with affection!). Who else is there? Goldenboy. And I don't think he is sold on this show. I think he probably thinks it's rather average too.

And I'm not sure what TT's opinion of Drive is.

I must admit though, you do have me rethinking something. On a Drive fansite I read a complaint from a Drive fan concerning the acting of the woman who plays Corrina. Personally I like her acting, but you've got me wondering now, am I missing something? Is she really this horrible actress, but I just don't get it. I don't think so though. I'm pretty sure I've seen her in other stuff, and I never had a problem with her.

You think all the actors in Drive so far have been competent and convincing? Seriously? Come on..

Another thing is the music. I've heard a scattered collection of niggles about that. It hasn't really attracted my attention one way, or the other. Am I just refusing to hear it though, because maybe it's not great.

Oh yeah, any program that butchers a Doors song gets many negative points from me. The music choice has been quite bad though, especially for a show like this.

Second warning on name calling

That's unfair. One mans name calling is another mans euphemism. I was just colouring up the expression "fanboy".

 

[nerd4hire]

The first time I heard the title song, I didn't like it. That's quite common with me though. It does seem to be growing on me, but I'm still not humming it.

And will you lay off the personal antagonism. All the others on this thread have as much right to an opinion as you do no matter what you think of them personally. You've got something like a point, why taint it?

 

[Schillaci]

The first time I heard the title song, I didn't like it. That's quite common with me though. It does seem to be growing on me, but I'm still not humming it.

I really dislike the theme, I don't think it fits at all, but I'm not sure how much affect that has on a persons opinion of the show.

And will you lay off the personal antagonism. All the others on this thread have as much right to an opinion as you do no matter what you think of them personally. You've got something like a point, why taint it?

Well, you think I'm being antagonistic for the sake of it, because I can be. That there is no purpose beyond the antagonism, it is an end in itself. But that's not the case. It is merely a tool. I like the four members that I mentioned in my previous post(and when I say like, what I mean is I don't despise them).

That's a whole other issue though, and the point of this topic is Drive.

By the way, in the midst of this "debate" or whatever it was, I realised something about episode 3 that I hadn't noticed, or at least hadn't realised that that was the idea. Its funny how things come to you at a later time. I'm not going to share it, you probably realised it anyway.

 

[teentitan]

Not despise me? OK good enough for me...
As for the music in this series, as I stated already they need to really play up the classics. I still think Black Betty would have been the ideal song when Alex got back into the Challenger. This series needs to 'pander' to the oldies for us, ahem, oldies especially when they have so many classic muscle cars. If they want to play newer music then tie it to the newer cars in the race.
Oh snd remakes of classics do not count and just aggrevate the hell out of me. If today's bands can't write their own lyrics then leave mine alone! It's called creativity for a reason! And putting a syncronized beat to a classic is not being creative...
Overall I like the show so far but I am hoping they spin stories of the other racers because if all they do is concentrate on the main characters this show will get tedious real fast.

 

[Buffy Summers]

If you can't make your point without calling other people idiots, then I'm closing this thread.

 

[goldenboy]

Ok, we've eliminated (Edit. personal insults)(said with affection!). Who else is there? Goldenboy. And I don't think he is sold on this show. I think he probably thinks it's rather average too.

Hey, I'm in cheerleader mode, I admit it. Picking things apart is pretty much my default position, as I bite my tongue. The music mostly sucks, as I've said. The acting varies from good TV acting to bland, Melrose Place level acting. I like Fillion, Dylan Baker, Melanie Lynskey...whoever plays Ivy...

I'm rooting for Minear, Fillion to catch a break, create a show that becomes great, and that people want to watch - though it's a longshot, seems like. Based on the ratings anyway...

 

[Schillaci]

I was joking with that Buff. Please don't take offense. I'm totally using 'such' in the future.

Should we have a Drive speculation topic? I think we should, as it has that mystery element, I think it will be fun hearing some folks kooky ideas.

 

[Randy Giles]

I would definitely watch this show, even in Minear had nothing to do with it. Why? Because it's an original concept for TV. And sorry, but three episodes in is enough for me to form an opinion if a show is good or not. Lost? I was convinced of its excellence ten minutes in.

Drive is a great show, interesting premise, fantastic cast, intriguing characters, and I find it smart and fun. I love it.

And I don't absolutely love EVERYTHING Minear has done. I find Firefly to be a good but terribly overrated show, I didn't care for Tim Minear much until I fell in love with Wonderfalls. And then I realized he was my favorite writer for "Angel". If I really hated a show he made, I wouldn't watch it. But so far, every show he's made has been great, including Drive, so I'm a fan.

And what's wrong with liking Supernatural? It's not my favorite show, either, BTW.

And N4H, I really think it's unfair to hate Noxon because of one show, the style of which was influenced by FOX in the first place. 🙂