Ninjalizer
Grown From Machines
I've been noticing that for a while now. It may just be the new environment for Spike, and that it's hard getting used to seeing Spike with this crew, in a law firm. But sometimes it doesn't even sound like him.
Discussion of 5.03 "Unleashed" - Airdate 10/15/03
- Thread starter Buffy Summers
- Start date
I've been noticing that for a while now. It may just be the new environment for Spike, and that it's hard getting used to seeing Spike with this crew, in a law firm. But sometimes it doesn't even sound like him.
Third ep
There was a lot going on undercover in this ep--even more than the first two--where I kept waiting to see what to sink my teeth into (so to speak).
Man, watching James Marsters just about KNOCKS ME OUT.
You guys--watch what he's doing--he's always gone for the real real viseral emotions. He doesn't even play it if he personly isn't feeling it at the moment. Look into his eyes and forget about what he is saying and hook into HIM. He's playing deep, deep down deep tissue fear. Not fake fear. And it colors his personality and perceptions and the way he tries to 'pretend' he isn't as desparate as he is. That is what is making him ring strange. And JM brilliant that he is is living the layers. He's taken lines that would have been a disaster in a lesser actor and used them to live out his fear and make him seem so brittle in these new curcumstances.
The perception we get that he needs it to be all about him--is really the watered down version of what is screaming inside of him that he desparately NEEDS IT TO BE ALL ABOUT HIM because of what he is suffering in the inbetween time. And is only showing the just bare edge of it to the crew.
Actually he is not 'showing' anything, he is living it.
Now--consider Angel and crews deliberate reaction to his state. Is this symbolic of the disgarded warrior when fallen? Is this show edging toward an anti war statement? (hope so) Neglecting Spike seems so cruel to a fallen soldier that it has to be deliberate in the story line.
Obviously I'm hoping 'Angel' will talk about how we don't take our war vetrans seriously--(Bush admin wants to cut 8 billion dollars in vetrans benefits that are already too seriosuly depleted and in a war climate at that)
I've always enjoyed how 'Angel' deals with issues of the mind--and i really hope they go for it--previews of next week show indicate they may be going for something GREAT. Really GREAT.
Spike dealing with karmic issues of crime and punishment, being forgotten and free will--can he WILL himself out of hell?
So I'm assuming everything they've been showing us is on purpose. That ending--so coldly ordering take out from Angel's penthouse was chilling to me under the circumstances--the unconcern for Cordy (I know life goes on but REALLY) and Angel just hoping Spike will FADE AWAY by ignoring him to death.
Spike came back into focus was made more solid by Fred's concern for him. ie remember Marcie from way back in 'BTVS?
And consider Angel's complete demeanor--what is the series trying to say about Leaders and overcoming personal feeling when dealing in a larger picture? Not sure yet, but I'm gonna trust they are makng Angel such an ass for a reason.
Why is it so important to him to prove Spike can never change? Would that cast a different light on Angel/Angelus? He made a point last week about Spike asking for his soul and only suffering for three weeks in a basement. If Spike could make such a decision as a demon, if Lorne can be good--if Demons can use free will--what does that say about the Jekell/Hyde theory of Angel/Angelus. Would the reality of Spike make people look at him (Angel) differently--thus adding to his hope that Spike and his complexities would just fade away. Then the concept of Angel/Angelus can remain unchallenged.
This ep has laid a lot lot of seeds--hope they have the guts to see it through. The previews of next week indicate they just might do it boys and girls they just might.
So. Responsibility of power? Could be good. Would he actually let Spike fall into hell if he could help him? Which is why, of course Spike won't let Fred tell him--Spike knows Angel/Angelus would do exactly that--and I'm hoping this season will discuss free will for Angelus.
Notice how Angel said to the weregirl 'I make that desicion every day?"
Before Spike went and got his soul himself--it was always inferred that 'the soul' made the decision for Angel.
Remember Angel's demonstration of 'mercy' a couple of weeks ago?
Dealing with Spike, helping him when he needs it, could be the biggest test on Angel's soul.
And of course--what if it was engineered that Spike get the amulet so The First (which was mightly pissed at him) Get him suffering in hell--now would sans soul ease Spike's suffering? Would the frist try to get him to 'sell his soul' to ease the suffering? This is all conjecture, i know nothing of plot lines only what I would do if I was writing it. Man, there could be some jucy times for Spike ahead in the battle to keep his soul.
That free will choice to get his soul had to set a terrible example in the eyes of the first for fellow demons and vampires.
Did Spike's story influnce Harmony to start bagging it?
This could be very, very interesting.
Hmmm. If Spike could be broken down then the power of his decision becomes moot to anone who might be inspired by it.
Oh yeah and Lorne is very. very green.
thanks for the chat
isa
There was a lot going on undercover in this ep--even more than the first two--where I kept waiting to see what to sink my teeth into (so to speak).
Man, watching James Marsters just about KNOCKS ME OUT.
You guys--watch what he's doing--he's always gone for the real real viseral emotions. He doesn't even play it if he personly isn't feeling it at the moment. Look into his eyes and forget about what he is saying and hook into HIM. He's playing deep, deep down deep tissue fear. Not fake fear. And it colors his personality and perceptions and the way he tries to 'pretend' he isn't as desparate as he is. That is what is making him ring strange. And JM brilliant that he is is living the layers. He's taken lines that would have been a disaster in a lesser actor and used them to live out his fear and make him seem so brittle in these new curcumstances.
The perception we get that he needs it to be all about him--is really the watered down version of what is screaming inside of him that he desparately NEEDS IT TO BE ALL ABOUT HIM because of what he is suffering in the inbetween time. And is only showing the just bare edge of it to the crew.
Actually he is not 'showing' anything, he is living it.
Now--consider Angel and crews deliberate reaction to his state. Is this symbolic of the disgarded warrior when fallen? Is this show edging toward an anti war statement? (hope so) Neglecting Spike seems so cruel to a fallen soldier that it has to be deliberate in the story line.
Obviously I'm hoping 'Angel' will talk about how we don't take our war vetrans seriously--(Bush admin wants to cut 8 billion dollars in vetrans benefits that are already too seriosuly depleted and in a war climate at that)
I've always enjoyed how 'Angel' deals with issues of the mind--and i really hope they go for it--previews of next week show indicate they may be going for something GREAT. Really GREAT.
Spike dealing with karmic issues of crime and punishment, being forgotten and free will--can he WILL himself out of hell?
So I'm assuming everything they've been showing us is on purpose. That ending--so coldly ordering take out from Angel's penthouse was chilling to me under the circumstances--the unconcern for Cordy (I know life goes on but REALLY) and Angel just hoping Spike will FADE AWAY by ignoring him to death.
Spike came back into focus was made more solid by Fred's concern for him. ie remember Marcie from way back in 'BTVS?
And consider Angel's complete demeanor--what is the series trying to say about Leaders and overcoming personal feeling when dealing in a larger picture? Not sure yet, but I'm gonna trust they are makng Angel such an ass for a reason.
Why is it so important to him to prove Spike can never change? Would that cast a different light on Angel/Angelus? He made a point last week about Spike asking for his soul and only suffering for three weeks in a basement. If Spike could make such a decision as a demon, if Lorne can be good--if Demons can use free will--what does that say about the Jekell/Hyde theory of Angel/Angelus. Would the reality of Spike make people look at him (Angel) differently--thus adding to his hope that Spike and his complexities would just fade away. Then the concept of Angel/Angelus can remain unchallenged.
This ep has laid a lot lot of seeds--hope they have the guts to see it through. The previews of next week indicate they just might do it boys and girls they just might.
So. Responsibility of power? Could be good. Would he actually let Spike fall into hell if he could help him? Which is why, of course Spike won't let Fred tell him--Spike knows Angel/Angelus would do exactly that--and I'm hoping this season will discuss free will for Angelus.
Notice how Angel said to the weregirl 'I make that desicion every day?"
Before Spike went and got his soul himself--it was always inferred that 'the soul' made the decision for Angel.
Remember Angel's demonstration of 'mercy' a couple of weeks ago?
Dealing with Spike, helping him when he needs it, could be the biggest test on Angel's soul.
And of course--what if it was engineered that Spike get the amulet so The First (which was mightly pissed at him) Get him suffering in hell--now would sans soul ease Spike's suffering? Would the frist try to get him to 'sell his soul' to ease the suffering? This is all conjecture, i know nothing of plot lines only what I would do if I was writing it. Man, there could be some jucy times for Spike ahead in the battle to keep his soul.
That free will choice to get his soul had to set a terrible example in the eyes of the first for fellow demons and vampires.
Did Spike's story influnce Harmony to start bagging it?
This could be very, very interesting.
Hmmm. If Spike could be broken down then the power of his decision becomes moot to anone who might be inspired by it.
Oh yeah and Lorne is very. very green.
thanks for the chat
isa
LazyDolphin
Scooby
Re: Third ep
Wow, isa. That's a helluva way to introduce yourself to the boards! Hope to see more long rambling intelligent posts! 🙂
Although Marcie on BTVS wasn't a ghost of any kind . . . just a chick who disappared because she felt invisible. Probably not the same principle at work here.
Wow, isa. That's a helluva way to introduce yourself to the boards! Hope to see more long rambling intelligent posts! 🙂
Although Marcie on BTVS wasn't a ghost of any kind . . . just a chick who disappared because she felt invisible. Probably not the same principle at work here.
R
rene
Guest
slayerangel
b/a always & forever
This is an early ep of S5 so maybe we'll see JM be more situated with this cast and crew as the season goes on. I love to see Spike as the jerk. He's really funny again... in 'Buffy' S5 - S7, James' character had a lot of heartfelt lines and he was sort of a softie. I'd rather see him with these lines than hear him just whining about his soul...
SpikedBuffy
Love Isn't Brains
yeah, i've noticed the voice difference too. I'm not sure if it's just the way it was taped, because sometimes Angel doesn't even sound like Angel...
or, gulp.... James is forgetting how to do that sexy accent. Maybe trying a bit to hard or something? Who-knows? All I care about is it's still Spike
Chasity
Peace. Love. Death Metal.
slayerangel
b/a always & forever
It was a nice moment and it made me smile and sorta rolled my eyes, but it was still sweet. The episode itself wasn't all that interesting. Sarah Fain and Elizabeth Craft aren't exactly famous for writing those really funny lines.
As I've said before, this ep had the same stuff that's already been done on 'Buffy'. Person gets bitten, turns into a werewolf three nights out of the week... yadda yadda yadda. At least in "Phases", there were some funny lines and the viewers really cared about Oz, so it gave a sense of horror about what he became, plus there was Willow and Oz's first kiss...
As I've said before, this ep had the same stuff that's already been done on 'Buffy'. Person gets bitten, turns into a werewolf three nights out of the week... yadda yadda yadda. At least in "Phases", there were some funny lines and the viewers really cared about Oz, so it gave a sense of horror about what he became, plus there was Willow and Oz's first kiss...
R
rene
Guest
i hated the end i like d the episode but th4e ending was just corny- wat was it a lifetime movie?
slayerangel
b/a always & forever
I hate the really corny endings... this was one filler episode that isn't on my "Favorites" list...
R
rene
Guest
This episode was boring! It had about 2 funny lines, and I didn't care at all about the character of Nina. The Spike subplot was interesting, and the acting was pretty great from Amy Acker and James Marsters, but pretty much the episode just drifted along in dullness. Blah! But next week looks good...that eye-glass-lady...*shudder*
R
rene
Guest
I think they were talking about the preview for next week, but in any case keep the spoilers in the spoiler forum 🙂
I really liked this one. I guess I'm too easy to please. ::mmm:: The whole Spike thing is getting really interesting. Also, I think my new favorite character is Fred. Not that I never liked her, but I just never really loved as much until I got the season 2 DVDs and started season 5.
LadyLavinia
Scooby
"Unleashed" wasn't a bad episode - rather mediocre, if I must be honest. The first two episodes were better. There isn't much I can say about a typical "monster-of-the-week" episode, but I do have a few observations.
*Spike's behavior reminded me of when he first had the Initiative chip planted in his brain, back in Season 4 - loud, annoying and very desperate for help.
*Not only was I disturbed by Angel's willingness to allow that scientist to be kept as the next meal, but by the attitude of the others. None of the Fang Gang seemed concerned by the scientist's fate. And the odd thing is that the only reason he was part of that scheme in the first was due to his fear of Crane - the real villain. One way of embracing evil, is to lose one's ability for mercy. After what happened with Hauser and the scientist, I'm afraid that Angel and the others have already taken this first step.
*I recognized the actor playing the scientist - John Billingsley, from "Star Trek: Enterprise".
*The relationship between Spike and Angel seemed to have taken a backward step after what they had achieved in "Just Rewards". In the previous episode, they had learned to trust and rely upon one another. Now that has disappeared, since Spike refuses to trust Angel; and Angel tries not to acknowledge Spike's presence. How sad.
*Actually, JM's accent sounds even more English - but with some kind of accoustic touch to it. Is this an indication of Spike being pulled into some kind of hell dimension?
*Spike's behavior reminded me of when he first had the Initiative chip planted in his brain, back in Season 4 - loud, annoying and very desperate for help.
*Not only was I disturbed by Angel's willingness to allow that scientist to be kept as the next meal, but by the attitude of the others. None of the Fang Gang seemed concerned by the scientist's fate. And the odd thing is that the only reason he was part of that scheme in the first was due to his fear of Crane - the real villain. One way of embracing evil, is to lose one's ability for mercy. After what happened with Hauser and the scientist, I'm afraid that Angel and the others have already taken this first step.
*I recognized the actor playing the scientist - John Billingsley, from "Star Trek: Enterprise".
*The relationship between Spike and Angel seemed to have taken a backward step after what they had achieved in "Just Rewards". In the previous episode, they had learned to trust and rely upon one another. Now that has disappeared, since Spike refuses to trust Angel; and Angel tries not to acknowledge Spike's presence. How sad.
*Actually, JM's accent sounds even more English - but with some kind of accoustic touch to it. Is this an indication of Spike being pulled into some kind of hell dimension?