Discussion of 5.06 "The Cautionary Tale of Numbero Cinco" - Airdate 11/5/03

Buffy Summers

Buffy Summers

Yataro
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Angel (David Boreanaz) learns that he must track down a retired Mexican wrestler (guest star Danny Mora) to help him defeat Tezcatcatl, an ancient Aztec warrior who emerges every 50 years to take the heart of a hero to sustain his own existence. Angel is surprised to find the wrestler is employed at his company, Wolfram & Hart, and that he has a personal score to settle with Tezcatcatl.
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Trailer

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Discuss this episode after it airs in the US here.
 
I found this episode alittle Boring myself i mean my brothers liked it cause it dealed with mexicans but the whole story line was just alittle boring although i did like all the spike scenes they were pretty funny... this is probley one of my least favorite episodes but every seasons gotta have at least one you dont like too much i guess...🙂
 
It was alright i'm with AB101 it could have been better i dont see it tape worthy but you might so you should just tape it 😉 my god spike was hott in this episode 🙂 The storyline seemed slow but i liked the whole 5 brother thing weird though that they never took off their masks...
 
Didn't much care for this episode, but at least Wes had a part. Loved the discussion between Angel and Wes on prophecies, did you see that look on Wes' face after Angel walked away? Expect Wes to research what exactly happened during the last two years, "The father will kill the son" and unreliable prophecies. Maybe he'll even break the spell that took out all those memories.
 
Strangely, even if the episode had nothing out of the ordinary, as a whole I loved it. I feel that it was the episode of season 5 that capture the most the vibe of Angel 1-4. Wes got something do, Spike was in the background, a little dark episode...
And the end with the prophecy is thrilling. I want the gang to found out about the spell...
 
I was also surprised that the episode was weak. This is the kick off week for November sweeps month. They should be throwing something huge at the viewers. It wasn't bad but after such a strong start... I agree that it was the weakest episode of the season. I did like how it confronted Angel's mood however.
 
Yes, I mean Angel slipped big time.
Maybe this is how Connor is brought back. You know with how they ended it, with Connor talking about not living a lie and such that he can't stay in happily ever after land. And Wes's reaction was duly noted. Maybe the Wes thing will be one of the sub plots for the season, and if the gang finds out I don't see any of them being to happy about what Angel did. This Ep was somewhat dull, but I think it was good they are addressing Angels "˜lack of heart'.. This might be one of those eps that no one thinks was relevant till then end of the season..
Anyways, seeing Angel get stabbed was interesting, and the whole Mexican wrestler thing is making me think someone is watching WB cartoons to much.. (there is, or was a cartoon called mucha lucha or something like that about Mexican wrestlers, so I find that odd)
they keep mentioning the Shanshu prophecy, and like I have suspected, seems that they are hinting that the prophecy might be for Spike and not Angel, so of course Wes trying to get Angel's hopes up over it might backfire in the end. But, Wes does point out that Spike is a Ghost of some sort now, not a vamp with a soul, so maybe in the end Angel will "˜get to be a real boy' either way I am very curious to see how they play it out. (wouldn't it be a kicker if the prophecy was all true and Angel does kill his son, who becomes a vampire with a soul and turns human after saving the world, lmao)
 
to me this ep is actually really boring, i dont know whether to go to sleep or watch it
 
Originally posted by WatcherWes
Didn't much care for this episode, but at least Wes had a part. Loved the discussion between Angel and Wes on prophecies, did you see that look on Wes' face after Angel walked away? Expect Wes to research what exactly happened during the last two years, "The father will kill the son" and unreliable prophecies. Maybe he'll even break the spell that took out all those memories.
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This exchange got me thinking.
If the "memories" of Connor are gone, are the physical scars gone too?

I tried to see, but couldn't tell, does Wesley still have the scar on his neck? Or is that gone now?
 
i agree, this ep was the low point so far. plus considering i'm not a fan of consecutive "stand alone" episodes. i prefer the arc like last season. i'm just still hoping they'll make spike solid sometime this century.......
 
Someone has to be the weird duck, I guess, so let it be me.

I loved this episode. It's my favourite so far.

Tapeworthy? Hell, in my opinion it demands a second viewing. It's deep.

There's so much to see; hidden stuff and subtext, complex bits of dialogue that need to be heard 2 or 3 times before you really get them...stuff like that.

You remember that bit where Number 5 is explaining how in the old days the luchadores were thought of as being more than a sideshow act? How they were thought of in the barrios and villages as genuine heroes with mythic ablilities. Well that's true. And there really was a legendary luche libre wrestler who never took his mask off.

Also there's stuff in this episode that may turn out to have significance later on. I wouldn't be surprised to see that talisman again. I expect to hear more about shanshuing as relates to Spike or Angel, and although I don't expect it I'd love to see the five brothers again.
 
I thought tonight's episode was good. Not one of my favorites, but there is no way I could miss it. I did like however seeing Spike more in the episode and him being able to interact more. I thought it was funny when he tried to pick that ply-wood up and he said: "bloody useless". That was so funny.
 
Yes, the mexican wrestlers hold their identity's very important. It wasn't weird at all that they didn't take off their masks, if you knew how sacred it was to them.

The episode definitely was not my favorite. It was a little slower than the others...but I loved all the references they threw in there. Talking about the Shanshu prophecy, twisting our thoughts about whether or not Angel truly believes in it. "The father will kill the son" totally caught me off guard. I loved it. The plot of the episode was really deep, and quite different. It was slow at times...but the majority of everything was great. And the internal struggle that Angel had been having...gets ya thinking.

I still don't understand next week's ep though...i watched the preview over and over...doesn't seem to show a big episode plot.
 
Originally posted by nerd4hire
Someone has to be the weird duck, I guess, so let it be me.
I loved this episode. It's my favourite so far.
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You're not the only one, my friend! I wouldn't say it was my favorite, but this episode was amazing!

I was waiting for them to address Angel's loss of hope, and they did it in such a deep and emotional way-the parallel between the way Angel was feeling and the plight of the luchador was very moving, as was the end, when Angel looked up the Shanshu prophecy again.

It is considered to be dishonarable for a luchador to remove his mask during a battle-since these brothers were constantly on call and ready for a battle, it makes sense that they would never remove their masks.

I like to see that Spike is no longer around just because he has to be. Now, he's really trying to help. He helped them piece together the way to kill the monster, and his slip to Wes about the Shanshu prophecy was no mistake-whether he would admit it or not, Spike was trying to help Angel. I also appreciated Spike's moment of modesty (which we rarely get to see) when it came to his status as a hero. That scene was very much appreciated.

Expect Wes to start researching-this should be interesting....

Also, on the comedy side, I loved this episode for moments like the look on Angel's face when the brothers started to fight, and for when Angel got thrown through the glass and shouted "I hate this place!"

This is the Angel I love-the Angel where things don't seem hopeless and their is always a chance to prevail-now if we could only get Cordy back....
 
Originally posted by Ninjalizer
I still don't understand next week's ep though...i watched the preview over and over...doesn't seem to show a big episode plot.
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that's because the WB has never known how to spin an episode trailer. they always focus on something completely irrelevant to the theme of the episode. they did that on buffy too.
 
I thought the premise was interesting, but they didn't develop it enough. This episode was okay. It's good to see the writers addressing Angel disconnection to everything. I loved how he read the Shansu prophecy at the end. Spike was great (become coporeal!).
 
Originally posted by nerd4hire
Someone has to be the weird duck, I guess, so let it be me.

I loved this episode. It's my favourite so far.

Tapeworthy? Hell, in my opinion it demands a second viewing. It's deep.

There's so much to see; hidden stuff and subtext, complex bits of dialogue that need to be heard 2 or 3 times before you really get them...stuff like that.

You remember that bit where Number 5 is explaining how in the old days the luchadores were thought of as being more than a sideshow act? How they were thought of in the barrios and villages as genuine heroes with mythic ablilities. Well that's true. And there really was a legendary luche libre wrestler who never took his mask off.

Also there's stuff in this episode that may turn out to have significance later on. I wouldn't be surprised to see that talisman again. I expect to hear more about shanshuing as relates to Spike or Angel, and although I don't expect it I'd love to see the five brothers again.
Click to expand...

I thought it was a very thought-provoking episode. It brought up issues on what it means to be a "champion", the shanshu prophecy, Angel's hopelessness, and the consequences of the decision he had made back in the episode, "Home". Quite excellent and very intelligent.
 
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