Discussion of 5.11 "Damage" (WB-US) - Airdate 1/28/04

Maybe Angel really can pull it off. He's unsure about it, but W&H will actually corrupt him the second he gives in to his dark side, IMO.

Also, at the end of the ep, I remember Angel saying Dana was one of the Scoobies'. That could translate into Angel not being on the same side as Buffy anymore...
 
The end was a total shocker... I mean woa.

Andrew was great, he turned out great and well, I'm still a bit overthrown about the ending, it's good that he stood up for himself. I also liked the hugging.

It would've been better if they would've showed the choping off of the hands. Not the actual things, but the slayer walking up to him and playing with his hands. That would've made it so much better.

Too little Harmony in this episode 🙁

I really hoped that Spike would kill the slayer. A bigger fight would've been nice too.

The Spike/Angel scene at the end was really great, better then them constantly annoying each other.

I find the fact that Buffy doesn't trust Angel anymore very hard to believe. I also doubt that she would have Andrew tell him off. I think the real Buffy would've come to LA to have a serious word with Angel.
 
Well its not like she thinks that he is evil, she just does not think that he made the right choice and that with Wolferman & Hart he may have made the wrong decision.

Since it is known for not being all so good I would think the same thing, she thinks that he probably has gone off his path somewhat but I dont think that she has lost all trust in him.

Andrew has changed since when we last saw him, like he said in the episode he is 80% more manlier now, he stands up for himself and he can take care of himself. Buffy has other things she has to worry about, aka a world of Slayers that she has to collect and ofcourse Dawn.
 
This ep totally rocked. I couldn't believe when Andrew walked through the door. I didn't know whether to laugh or squeal. :: wacko2 Ok, new slayer totally rocked. "Head or heart, keep cutting until you see dust." She was so tight!! Too bad that she is so crazy. I think that I'll be making a sig of this ep also. I'll try looking at the Angel page on the wb.com and see if they have the gallery up yet. ::evil1:: Glad to know that most of the gang is scattered all over Europe. Very cool to know that Buffy and Dawn are in Rome. I also loved the part at the end of the ep when Angel told Andrew "I'll just clear it with Buffy" and Andrew says "Who do you think gave me the order." I was like Oooooo...... Anyway, great ep. I know that the 100th ep will be even better. ::tongue::
 
This was definitely the best episode of the season so far. Were any of the slayers potentials that we have seen on Buffy? I could have sworn I saw Amanda there.
 
Just finished watching. Wow - I think this has been my fave ep this season. I loved how it really was totally filled with so much good info - and tied up so many "loose" ends and questions that I had.

Just to weigh in on the "buffy doesn't trust angel?!?" bit: I don't think that it specifically means that she doesn't trust Angel himself, but more that the whole group doesn't really trust the direction that they are taking and the decision they've made. They (the BtVS group) have seen enough to know that even using evil to try and do good can easily corrupt.

*sigh* now I must bide my time until the next episode! This is the part I hate about a new season - the waiting 🙂
 
It was so great to see Andrew again - looking like he wanted to look in Storyteller. And to hear that neither Buffy nor the Scoobies trust Angel anymore!!!! *does the Spuffy dance* But I still don't accept Spike's stupid reason for not going to Rome!!!!
 
Blackarachnia said:
It was so great to see Andrew again - looking like he wanted to look in Storyteller. And to hear that neither Buffy nor the Scoobies trust Angel anymore!!!! *does the Spuffy dance* But I still don't accept Spike's stupid reason for not going to Rome!!!!
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lol if Buffy doesnt trust Angel that much anymore, when she finds out Spike is alive and is with Wolferman & Hart she wont be that trustworthy of him either...
 
Fat Elvis 007 - I don't think Amanda could have been there, seeing how she died in Chosen. None of them looked familiar to me.

Does anyone know how long Dana was tortured for? Some things confuse me still. The guy who tortured her killed her family and then kidnapped her? How did he torture her though, she wasn't missing any limbs or anything. I guess there is other ways of torture that don't show up. Why did she kill innocent people? If she had visions of being the Slayer, she wouldn't go around hurting them, she'd help them. I know she was screwed up, but I dunno. Maybe I'm missing something.
 
Primal Slayer said:
lol if Buffy doesnt trust Angel that much anymore, when she finds out Spike is alive and is with Wolferman & Hart she wont be that trustworthy of him either...
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But Spike doesn't work for W&H. He has rejected everything it represents. And even when they try to bring him in, he resists. He knows what it is doing to Angel and to them all. They can't control what happens....
:: hiding: :: hiding:
 
Fat Elvis 007 - I don't think Amanda could have been there, seeing how she died in Chosen. None of them looked familiar to me.
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*feels stupid*

I've only seen Chosen once, and my cousin was talking the whole time. I was a little confused by who survived and who didn't.
 
Fat Elvis 007 said:
*feels stupid*

I've only seen Chosen once, and my cousin was talking the whole time. I was a little confused by who survived and who didn't.
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Don't feel stupid. I watched it very carefully and didn't remember that she died. I think the end pretty much pushes all other thoughts out of your head. You should watch it again if you get the chance!!
 
--Best episode of the season so far.

--Loved the confrontation between Andrew and Angel. I find it significant that Angel challenged Andrew more than once and that Andrew held his ground every single time. Even after the slayers showed up, Angel still challenged Andrew again. Until Andrew said, "where do you think my orders come from?"

--I suppose it's true that Buffy may not distrust Angel what with them being soul mates and all, but can anyone really blame her if she did mistrust him now? At least a little bit? Anyway, she could distrust him slightly and still be cookies for him. They're not so mutually exclusive.

--The talk at the end between Angel and Spike about what's different between them and the nature of evil was really cool. Also note that Spike came as close as he ever would to admitting that Angel is right to seek redemption, even though it's not something you can ever really win (it's not a trophy after all).

--Dana's look in the beginning, with her long hair hanging down darkly over her eyes is very reminiscent of the girl in The Ring. It's as effective now as it was then.

--When I saw Dana's first displays of super-strength, I was immediately thinking, "Oh an insane slayer." Back when I saw Chosen, I naturally thought, "coooool!" at the thought of all the empowered, super-strength women, but I also wondered about the wisdom of such a plan. I mean, the Buffy series showed us, through Faith, that having slayer strength does not necessarily make everything all happy. Sometimes they go bad. "Rogue Slayer" as the The Watcher's Council used to call it.

--To fill in the potential plot hole of Dana knowing things about Spike from visions: It's possible that the reason she could remember some of these things is because she was already pretty insane. Also, it does make sense that she would be much more likely to remember Spike than Angel (Angelus) because Spike killed two slayers, but Angelus tended towards the far wiser course of action: staying away from slayers as much as possible.
 
I don't think there is any question that Buffy now totally mistrusts Angel and all his gang. She sent all those slayers with Andrew to be sure that Dana wasn't left with Angel. What do you think those slayers were going to do if Angel had refused to give her up? Have tea with Angel and the gang? My only question is this: would they have killed Angel if necessary? The orders came from Buffy!!! ::skull:: ::skull:: ::skull::
 
No they wouldnt have killed him, Buffy doesnt dispise Angel or think that he is full on evil, Andrew needed back up anways for 2 reasons:

1. Help get Dana if she resisted

2. Help get Dana if Angel didnt give her up

The Slayers wouldve just had used force to get her, kick some solider ass around and send them flying.

And Spike may not "Workd" for Wolferman & Hart but he isnt exactly running to get away from the lawfirm.
 
But he did totally reject Gunn and Wes's offer to come and work and have more money and a much better apartment. He made it clear that he knows he would be corrupted and that he believes they already have been corrupted. And look, Angel kills humans now.
 
I just saw this one...all I can say is, "I LUV ANDREW"! In my opinion, he has just made the whole season worth while in only one episode. I really wish they would bring him back!
 
Unpublished Photo About Spike


angel511_1.jpg
 
It was a good episode, I'll give it that but I didn't think it was the best ever as some people have been saying. Maybe its because im not an Andrew fan. He's okay and he makes me smile (rather then laugh, you know verging on laughing but not getting all the way there) sometimes but I dont find him really funny.

Spike and Angel bonding was cool, as was the Angel vs Sunnydale scene. Is it me or did Fred look pretty good in this episode,or as Andrew put it "attractive, slender woman."

I thought maybe Spike was her torturer and I was so surprised, as I was when he had no hands.

You think after Faith Buffy would have some trust in Angel's ability to help crazy Slayers.

Willow's spell didn't do too much trouble, as Andrew said Dana is an exception, all other Slayers have been okay.
 
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