Discussion of 5.12 "You're Welcome" (WB-US)

First off, as far as the Livinia/Javen argument, we can all stand to accept, respect, and appreciate the view points of others. And Livinia-there will be no cursing at other members-The staff here at Buffy-boards is not so blindingly stupid that we don't understand what the stars are blanking out in context.

As for the episode, this was a spectacular episode of Angel-long gone had been the times that this show made me cry, but this week brought it all back for me. Cordelia has always been one of my favorite characters, so while her send off was well done, and fitting of such a great character, it was incredibly hard to watch-although I knew something wasn't right from the time I saw her in the hospital, when she was talking about the other girl being near death-I was like, "Oh damn...I knew it was too good to be true".

Best quote- Cordelia (i.e. her soul) Clearly, mine is better!
Cheesiest quote- Angel: I'm Angel!

Lindsey was great, and I doubt this is the end of him and Eve, so don't be expecting this to be over, because I seriously doubt it.

The mentions of Doyle were touching and well used throughout the episode-somehow this episode made me realize just how much I missed him.

Harmony was hilarious.

The scenes between Cordy and Angel and Cordy and Wesley were touching and quite well-written.

Cordelia was ABSOLUTELY HOT-and her outfits seemed to actually draw an arrow to her boobs.

What WAS with the fact that joss didn't write or direct this episode? Oh well, we did fine without him, this time around.

And finally, that kiss-I think I'd forgotten what a Cangel I used to be---'sniff'

Let's all have a moment of silence for our dearly departed Cordelia Chase-a friend of ours through eight years of the Buffyverse....she will be GREATLY missed....
 
Kindred said:
One more thing though: WHAT THE F@#$!!!!! David Fury wrote and Directed this episode? Am I the only one who sees something deeply wrong with this? It's just not the natural order of things! Where the hell was Joss? He's always done the really meaningful and "special eps" (not to say that others haven't also penned eps that were meaningful and special). I can think of so many that he's penned, and some aren't even that pivotal... Why didn't he do this episode?
Click to expand...

I'm actually kind of glad that Joss didn't do this ep because knowing him, he would have had Cordy die in battle and maliciously killed. Remember how he killed Anya? It was a huge slice through her. Not very fun at all. At least this way, it was a graceful exit and more meaningful than just dying in battle.
 
Where do I even start? Certainly the best episode of the season, possibly the best ever! The dialog was sharp, the acting was great and the overall "wow-factor" was definitely present. I particularly enjoyed the occasional nod of respect to the much-loved Doyle, who will always be sorely missed.

Nice to finally see some sparring between Angel and Lindsey after all this time. And the extraordinary attention to detail, like the reference to the first time these two met eachother.

Another little touch worthy of note, the old fight-scene music when Angel hurled Lindsey accross the room at the end of the fight. We haven't heard that particular theme in quite some time. In fact, I may be wrong, but I think the last time they used that particular music was in the season 1 finale, when Angel cut off Lindsey's hand.

And, of course, Cordy. Great to see her back with the gang, even if it was for the last time.

So, anyone care to place bets on how Lindsey's gonna get out of this one?
 
I have nothing against David Fury, I actually think that he did a fabulous job with this ep. I just think that Joss would have handled a few things better. But not to dwell, it all went rather nicely, as a whole.

Something that I was thinking about though, was that Angel still seemed to love Cordy and want to be with her. This is deeply confusing to me. Angel seems kind of fickle lately; Buffy was his true love, she died, he was all destroyed for a while. Then he had his relationship with Cordy and seemed genuinely broken when she was "away". Then he found out Buffy was a live and went running off to see her, then went to her in Chosen and seemed pretty much to still be comletely in love with her, then there was all the animosity with Spike concerning Buffy earlier this season.... Now it's Cordelia again.

I'm aware that Buffy and Angel are two different shows, but they take place in the same universe, and the writers usually do pretty well with the continuity from show to show. Can someone explaine this to me?

~Kindred
 
OMG there are no words that can explain this episode! I thought it was absolutely fantastic! The writing was amazing, the acting was amazing everything was just great. I loved the tribute to Doyle(Glenn Quinn). It was so great and sad. And I think they gave justice to Charisma's character. That was an absolutely perfect way to send her off. They really couldn't have done a better job. Of course they made me cry myself to sleep(literally), but there was no better way than this. I also loved the fact that she made Angel remember who he was and what he's really supposed to be doing. Helping the Helpless. He really needed a wake up call and this episode really reminded me of the old Angel. This Wolfram and Hart Angel is/was so boring and he totally forgot who he was. Hopefully this was a wake up call and in the rest of the season he will be the old Angel🙂
 
A truely amazing episode. Here I was thinking they could never top last week, and they go and prove me wrong. The ending was so sad, but it really put closure on Cordelia's character. I cried when I found out.

Somethings could have been better, but overall it was a great episode. One of the best ever IMO. The chemistry between Cordelia and Angel was so much better than before. Hey, they actually had chemistry in this episode. You really connected with her character also, which hasn't happened often with any character this season.

Lindsey and Angel fighting was totally awesome. Loved that seen. And the tribute to Doyle.

The last minute or so totally shocked me. I think I went from shock, to anger, to amazement, back to anger, to satisfaction in a span of 3 seconds. As much as I thought for half of those 3 second it wasn't, it was a perfect ending. Couldn't have been a better way for them to end her character. 8 years is a long time, we'll miss her for much longer than that.

Truely brilliant.
 
B
Blackarachnia
So intelligent and witty and right on!!!
omg, wow...ok this was such a good episode!!! I hated how they had cordy die though!!! wow, that was a shock..for someone who hasn't read any spoilers...lol. And i really got a little teary when cordelia and angel were watching that tape of doyle..🙁 And i loved all the references to him later on. But the only thing is...what are they going to do for the rest of the season..it seems like they've already beat the big bad...
 
BillieHunter said:
A truely amazing episode. Here I was thinking they could never top last week, and they go and prove me wrong. The ending was so sad, but it really put closure on Cordelia's character. I cried when I found out.

Somethings could have been better, but overall it was a great episode. One of the best ever IMO. The chemistry between Cordelia and Angel was so much better than before. Hey, they actually had chemistry in this episode. You really connected with her character also, which hasn't happened often with any character this season.

Lindsey and Angel fighting was totally awesome. Loved that seen. And the tribute to Doyle.

The last minute or so totally shocked me. I think I went from shock, to anger, to amazement, back to anger, to satisfaction in a span of 3 seconds. As much as I thought for half of those 3 second it wasn't, it was a perfect ending. Couldn't have been a better way for them to end her character. 8 years is a long time, we'll miss her for much longer than that.

Truely brilliant.
Click to expand...


I agree with your assessment whole heartedly. I don't like the character of Angel much but I actually cried for him and felt his pain - he looked so lonely and so sad. And I did want Cangel and felt really robbed when they yanked it away and this made it very bittersweet - like so many Buffy eps. I was reminded of when Oz returned for Willow. And it was so great to have the old Cordy back.

But truly Harmony stole this ep away. And why didn't she bite Eve. She should have lied and said she tried to run.
 
Cordeila

Angel really is not nice to its characters. I just realized this and I wanted to talk to a few people about my ideas so I decided to join this board. Basically Jasmine had nothing to do with Cordy's coma. I've been watching Angel from the start and just remembered that Cordy was in a coma before Jasmine was put in her body. Remeber the episode in which Cordy was knocked out of her body by the visions? Skip, who we later found out was working for Jasmine, told Cordy that she was going to die. The visions were killing her and she would slip into a coma until she had another vision, then the back of her skull would blow out. By geting Cordy's permision and infusing her with demon essence, Skip kept her alive and allowed Jasmine to be born. I think that Cordy had to agree to have Jasmine in her that is why she was given the choice of an alternate life as a TV star. When Jasmine was in Cordy she was the demon part that kept Cordy alive during her visions. Doyle got blinding, terrible headaches when he had a vision. Cordy didn't even experience pain after becoming part demon. That alone is good evidence that Jasmine was infused into her. When Jasmine was born Cordy didn't have a demon part anymore so she slipped into a coma because of the visions. She has been in that coma waiting for the last vision. She finally had it this episode and it killed her. I think that Cordy somehow got the higher powers to create a sort of alternative reality for a few hours. Somethings didn't change for instance, Cordy's body was still in her bed but overall I think it was a reality that existed for a short time but couldn't continue or exist in (real )reality because Cordy would die from the visions no matter what happened and the higher beings couldn't (or wouldn't)change that. Everyone reacted to Cordeila in an unpredictable and natural manner so I don't think it was Angel's hallucination or something that Cordy created. Cordy was definitely Cordy and she got to see her friends on last time and put Angel back on track. I don't know whether anything that happened in the episode will have lasting consequences or if anyone but Angel will remember it. I'm inclined to think the events were for Angel's benefit only. He was becoming evil and didn't even notice it. Cordy, the woman he loves was able to visit him and save him and maybe even save the world (its possible that if Angel fell into the full sway of W&H he would become the champion for evil at the end of the world). I really like Cordy and am very sorry to see her go. Killing Cordeila followed the implacable logic of the Angel universe, but was also horrible. I'm a little angry with Angel that he forgot about the visions and the fact that Cordy wasn't part demon anymore. Even if he didn't know they would kill her, he knew that they were hurting her and should have done something.
 
::crying:: ::crying::

WHAAAA!!! I miss Cordeila already!

(And here is what is interesting and I"m sure everybody else felt it too. She's been in a coma for months now, but she was still a part of the show, you know? Even though she wasn't there, she was. But now that she is dead, she is really gone and we will most likely never see her again. It is so sad)

This was a great episode. A lot of info packed into one.

*announcement* I am officially a Cangel fan now. I have never seen those two together, because I missed season 3 and the first part of season 4, so I've never seen their relationship. But after that kiss and how they were both in (or near) tears when Cordelia says it was time for her to go, I almost cried myself. It hit me hard. So, here it is. Cangel fan. (But still #1 Spuffy fan as well)

I don't think that is the last we see of Lindsey or Eve. They'll be back.

And yeah, Cordy did look kinda curvaceous and hot. My boyfriend's like: What, is she trying to showcase her boobs? I'm like...well, she did just have a baby last summer... so that's probably why. But she looked good.

R.I.P Cordelia Chase
 
OMG, I just watched the ep and I feel like doing this.. ::crying2: It was so good. I still can't believe that Cordy is gone. This is definitely one of the best eps of the season. It was well written and greatly played out. I'm glad that Angel and Cordy got to kiss for the last time. It was also great to see her get Angel back on track. She will really be missed in the coming Angel episodes. :: broken
 
I was so floored by this ep...
Cordy, sniff.. Wow, I mean, the kiss and now she's gone it's all so happy and sad.
Cordy got some GREAT lines in this ep. I hadn't realized how much I really liked and missed her character till now. I think Angel needs Cordy, but I guess that's irrelevant. I am really torn, this could almost be my Favorite ep ever, despite it was lacking in some things... but the end, damn I wish I could tape things, cause I would have watched it again and again.. "aw heck how about one for the road" it was just great. I do wish Cordy would have given Wes a little more though, I know she said he worked the best mojo, and they had a moment where you'd almost swear he could tell.. But maybe it was better that way. And I have one major problem. Connor. I know he doesn't remember, but Cordy should have seen him, at least from a far, she should have gotten the closure, and it could have reaffirmed for the viewers that he was happy and better off. Not that I am a Connor fan mind you, but Cordy said she remembered everything, so she would you think, feel she had done the most damage to him, I mean hello!! He loved her, and she used him, and she practically made him kill an innocent! I donno, maybe it's better, but I just thought She'd want to see him.
Oh and I just LOVED Harm in this ep! I am beginning to like her more and more. She'll never replace Cordy, but she is a great addition to Angel. And when she jumped in to smack Eve around, I was literally rolling on the floor, it was great, she was all like, smack smack is this ok?
<sigh> I can't believe Cordy is really gone.. I am still in denial..
Cordelia Chase, you will be greatly missed!!!! sniff
 
Kindred said:
Something that I was thinking about though, was that Angel still seemed to love Cordy and want to be with her. This is deeply confusing to me. Angel seems kind of fickle lately; Buffy was his true love, she died, he was all destroyed for a while. Then he had his relationship with Cordy and seemed genuinely broken when she was "away". Then he found out Buffy was a live and went running off to see her, then went to her in Chosen and seemed pretty much to still be comletely in love with her, then there was all the animosity with Spike concerning Buffy earlier this season.... Now it's Cordelia again.

I'm aware that Buffy and Angel are two different shows, but they take place in the same universe, and the writers usually do pretty well with the continuity from show to show. Can someone explaine this to me?

~Kindred
Click to expand...

Well havent you ever been in love with two people at once? Angel loves Buffy but he cant have her. He falls for Cordelia but other things intervene. When circumstances come together to allow him to be with either then he takes it. Just like he should. Jeez that's not fickle. Buffy is Miss Fickle. Angels lagging way behind in those stakes.

Oh and...
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
As soon as Cordy returned, I was like 'they better not kill her off'. Damn you Whedon for making me care and then taking her away. I just know she'll return. Some how. Some way.

Lindsey will definately be back. I think the senior partners will be very impressed with his deception rather than disapproving. Eve will get hers eventually. My bet is from Lilah. Who I just know will return to take her place. That'd be so awesome. Then there will be a whole complicated Fred/Wes/Lilah thing. Brilliant.

Hopefully it'll be back to ANGEL now. Instead of the Spike Show it has been for ages.

Baron
 
Hmmm. My predictions are:
-Cordy will not be back. Unless they get really desperate for sweeps in the 6th season, or possibly the series finale, some kind of Yoda/Obi-Wan waving ghost thing.
-Lindsay will be back. This season. He's a crafty fellow. Who knows, maybe the Senior Partners are impressed? Like on shows when the guy tells his boss off and then gets a raise for his moxy.
-I don't think this is the end of the Shanshu paradox. At least I hope not. It made for some real nice tension and speculation. Lindsay may have lied about the visions and stuff, but the electronics still went nuts and the white room was still a howling void. I don't think he could have orchestrated the elimination of the white room.
-I have it on good authority that around 3 or 4 eps from now we will get a Buffy guest. I think I know who, but I don't want to say. I'm not sure how I feel about it. It is pandering, sort of, but at least we'll get to hear more of the New Scooby Council's reaction to Angel at W&H.
::mmm::
 
I was thinking earlier and i was wondering if anyone knew if Chrisma was done with the show or they just decided that they couldn't take Cordy any farther in the show. I know that they killed off Anya because Emma was done with the show so if there were to be a spinoff there was no way she was coming back.
 
Vicious,
I loved your reaction. I have a theory about the Cordy/Demon problem. 😀
I think that Cordy's demon half was Jasmine. When Jasmine was born Cordy became human again. The visions were killing her when she was human, and none of that damage was healed without the demon inside of her. Its really sad, but I think the visions not Jasmine killed Cordy. Skip told her in the episode in which she got knocked out of her body that without a demon in her she would slip into a coma and die once she had a vision. Cordy had a vision last episode and it killed her.
I wanted to quote your post but I don't know how to do so in the edit function.
 
B
Blackarachnia
Very astute analysis. Great thinking!!!
B
BillieHunter
very good theory, logical, and explains alot
So Cordy did lose her demon half when she birthed Jasmine?
Okay.
Thanks for clearing that up.

Good Authority eh?
I've been reading press releases for upcomming episodes...and toward the end of the season, around 15-16 I believe...
Fred is supposed become posessed by a demon goddess(is anyone else seeing a trend of redundancy here?) and Wesley is supposedly going to enlist the aide of an "Old Sunnydale Familiar"....so I'm thinking it's Willow...since she arguably the only one of the Scoobsters really equipped to deal with such a situation...Not to mention...Alexis Denisof has made several public announcements of his desire to get his wife on the show...and that he was trying to convince her to do so...
Theoretically...Willow and Buffy are the only two Sunnydalers that I can think of that could actually fit into the story. If Buffy came to LA...it would promote the jealousy storyline between Angel and Spike, and maybe finally bring things to a head.
Willow makes sense because out of all the Scoobies she was arguably the closest to Angel...besides Buffy of course...Xander always hated him, Giles didn't trust him after Angel tortured him, Wood has never even heard of him...and the only concievable reason Kennedy would make an appearence is as Will's sidekick.

Willow has re-souled Angel twice....and he's saved her life many a times..."that kinda promotes togetherness"

Sorry...Angel will be enlisting the aide...not Wesley...
I would post the episode guide...but the no-spoliers rule so yeah...😉

Hisss
-Vicious
:: red dev
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom