Discussion of 5.13 "Why We Fight" (WB-US) - Airing 2/11/04

I thought it was ok. Not the greatest episde this season. But it was decent. I liked the Spike and Angel dialog at the ending....and I was quite amused by the "Rasputin's lover" revelation by the one vampire, lol, Rasputin was a scary, strange....person....
 
It was entertaining enough, but (not to pun out) it seemed like treading water after what happened to Cordelia last week.
 
I don't think Lawson had a soul. It was just that his personality traits didn't lend themselves to vampirism, and he thought that he had part of a soul.
 
Great episode, it was nothing like you're run of the mill Angel episode, but it provided us with a certain kind of darkness, that we like so much 😀

There was one big blunder though. Why couldn't Angel have killed Lawson right away? Next morning he would've just found the others?

But I liked the overall setting of the episode, though I kind of missed a certain blonde individual. And the final scene with Spike and Angel looked great.
 
I loved this episode, but, like many others, I felt like Spike's character was a little off from what he should've been like at that time.

Loved all the little winks towards what would happen to the future-LOVED that they showed the beginnings of the Initiative.

Was it just me or did Lawson look and sound a little like Tom Cruise? Me liked 😀 ALOT 😀
 
Allycat said:
There was one big blunder though. Why couldn't Angel have killed Lawson right away? Next morning he would've just found the others?

But I liked the overall setting of the episode, though I kind of missed a certain blonde individual. And the final scene with Spike and Angel looked great.
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The Lawson question is a good one. Couldn't Angel just use W&H fancy resources. Psychics, survelance equipment, etc... to find his friends. Letting Lawson lead him to them was arrogant and put everyone in a lot more danger. Just because Angel could take him easily didn't mean that Lawson didn't have some way to make Angel suffer even if he won.

Where was Harmony? She usually doesn't miss things like this. You would think that at some point she would have shown up.

I didn't care much for the episode. It was formulaic, irrelevant and decently borring. It was funnny in places just not up to caliber with other Angel episodes (S1,2,3,&4). The stand alone episodes this season are a little depressing. A few have been great especially the Harmony one, but there are a lot of unanswered questions and it is exasperating that the show has abandoned arching story lines in favor of ratings and less substance. I want to know where the Wesley dad bot came from and want closure on Cordy's death. Maybe new viewers familiar with Buffy really like watching Spike, who I love as a character by the way, but I don't think the show should center on the tension between Angel and Spike.

Honestly, I want to see more of Wesley, Gunn, and Fred and less of the Angel/Spike dynamic. I love Marsters I think that he is a good addition to the show. I wish that they would show us more of Spike as he tries to come to grips with saving the world, becoming corporial, and giving up his old life. I am getting sick, however, of the Angel and Spike show.

Sorry about the rant, its just depressing that this season of Angel hasn't measured up so far. I'm hoping for a miracle and haven't given up hope, but I'm afraid that someone in charge deceided that the show I love wouldn't sell and gave up on the premise and basic style of Angel. Yes, I'm feeling depressive right now. Whedon, please give me back my tv show.
 
I didn't like this ep much either. I liked the surprise of the army wanting to experiment with vampires. Hmmm....where have we seen that before??? :😛?:: I always like when the vampires that Angel has sired come back to bite him in the butt. I hope that another one comes around before the end of the show. :: teeth :
 
Has there been any mention of Gunn needing to recharge his lawyer mojo, or is he actually linked to the senior partners. If not the latter, it seems like there must still be some link to the senior partners still at Wolfram and Hart. Eve couldn't have been the only one. Either way, I think that Gunn will eventually end up losing this power, possibly if the whole gang returns to the streets.

Jacklyn: Lawson did look a lot like Tom Cruise. That freaked me out. Creepy scientologists.

Skital: I agree about Charmed. It seems to use a lot of gimmicks and sex to promote its episodes. It also annoys me how they name their episodes in the promos, like "Charmed: Naughty Nymphs" or "Charmed: Valkyrie Vixens." Don't those sound like deep and meaningful hours of television? 😛
 
Kindred said:
And, where in the deep blue sea was Drusilla? I understand that she may not have been caught along with Spike, but niether he nor Angel even made an allusion to her.


~Kindred
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I said something quite similar except I substituted something that rhymes with "duck" in place of "deep blue sea"...
 
This is like an interesting history lesson to me, but I did get somewhat bored halfway through the episode. I loved the Prince, who is my favorite minor character so far this season!

It was an okay filer. One of the better ones I've seen. I like how it shows that Angel still has a l,ot to make up for and that just because he sired one guy, he's caused the deaths of hundreds of people. What I don't really understand is why Lawson would come back right now when he could've returned decades ago...

A few things I'd like to point out: The Prince looks as old as the Master to me. It should make sense that he should revert to only bones when staked or something. Also, in "Angel," Angel told Buffy that he hasn't fed on a human since the day he got his soul, but he fed off one in a flashback in "Orpheus" and now he sires Lawson in "Why We Fight." Continuity sucks.
 
I have heard that some people thought this episode was stupid. I thought it was great. I think Lawson really wanted Angel to tell him that he had a soul. I thought it was sorta sad at the end when Angel told Spike that Lawson just needed a reason. Great episode. Just sorta bummed it didn't say anything about Cordelia, but I mean what are they gonna say, it was all in Angels head.
 
We don't really know how the Cordelia thing worked, but I think that the only thing that makes sense is that it was all imagined, hallucinated or fantasized by Angel. It happened to Buffy when Joyce died in The Body. She fantasized that the paramedics were able to save her. I think that this was a similar situation. The theories about Cordelia being a ghost do not work, because Spike bit her. Hopefully, it will be explained later, but I doubt it. Sorry for getting off topic.
 
B
Blackarachnia
Great sig. Love the show!!
slayerangel said:
What I don't really understand is why Lawson would come back right now when he could've returned decades ago...
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Presumably he got to land and lost track of Angel. It would've taken some time for him to adjust to his new 'life' as a Vampire, and Angel probably didn't gain much public attention until he became Wolfram & Hart CEO.

Also, in "Angel," Angel told Buffy that he hasn't fed on a human since the day he got his soul, but he fed off one in a flashback in "Orpheus" and now he sires Lawson in "Why We Fight." Continuity sucks.
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Well, he fed off a corpse in Orpheus that he didn't kill, so it may be that that doesn't count entirely. Besides, it was a weak moment that he'd rather forget, so it's not all that strange that he doesn't mention it. As for Lawson - he doesn't feed off of him, he just turns him.

To answer a few other questions:
- Harmony wasn't around because everyone had gone home for the night, other than 'the gang'
- Cordelia's death likely had an impact on the gang, but with her already having been gone for a while and her ending being sort of her own choice, the situation would return back to 'normal' within a week.
- Angel couldn't kill Lawson, as he had no idea what the backup plan that Lawson mentioned was, until he personally showed Angel.

Also, Angel taking command and Spike replying with a "Heil Hitler!". Very daring, but very amusing none the less 😀
 
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