Mandy C said:
Death on these two shows has never had to mean anything, because there are magic spells to bring people back, not to mention the PTB and the Senior Partners
Well, maybe Joss sees that as a problem that needs to be rectified. When death is not permanent, life loses its meaning.
Yes, I suppose the soul-burnt-up thing could be a big blow to those that believe strongly in the concept of an immortal soul. Personally, I always saw souls in the Buffyverse as a convenient means-to-an-end i.e. bringing back a character.
In the RPGs I've been in, the soul has always been a bit of a commodity. It's like the soul is "immortal
*" where the "
*" is very important. The soul, in these games, can sometimes be destroyed or spent or used as a part of some magical feat. So... the burned up soul thing wasn't so different to me.
If this were one of those games, it would mean that, that character could not possibly come back. However, this is
not one of those games--it is a
story. And that means that all bets are off. The writers can always do whatever they damn well please. So she could
still come back. As I said, she already has done so once...
(I'm sorry, I realize that my statement doesn't quite dovetail with yours, it's just that's the direction my brain invariably takes.)
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Kuznya said:
Kuznya :
Giles logic. Wolfram and Hart = Evil. Angel works for Wolfram and Hart ergo Angel = Evil. Fred works for Angel who works for Wolfram and Hart ergo Fred = Evil. Evil does not = good/innocent therefore Fred does not = Innocent.
I basically agree with you on the Giles logic. Only difference I'd throw in is: I think Giles might allow for a bit more fuzziness in their--as in the various quantities are only approximately equal, not exactly equal. It's possible that Giles, or one of the other Scoobies, might be persuaded to change their minds and help team Angel before the end of the season... especially now that there won't be any more seasons.
IMHO, the only reason the writers had the main characters bring up Willow and ressurection in this ep was because they had to. See, if the main chars hadn't tried to reach Willow, then all the viewers would have said, "why don't they call Willow?" It's called "answering objections in advance." It's useful when you're trying to sell people on something--like when you're trying to sell people on the idea of Fred being irrevocably dead.
Kuznya said:
As far as Illaria *sp?* "becoming good" I think everyone is reading it wrong. She wants/needs to learn about this world and how to interact/live in it. Her only real choice for a guide is Wes because as she says he will help her because she looks like Fred. She agrees to the no killing thing not because she want to be good, but because it is the only way he will help. Now this doesnt mean she cant choose to be good once shes seen all that Wes can show her. But right now I just think its an agreement of mutual gain.
I agree. IMHO, people are reading way too much into just a few lines. Never trust too much what happens at the very end of a scene or episode. It can easily be misleading either on accident or by design.
The purposes of that scene were to set up the idea that Illyria would be hanging around, and that Wes might be trying to teach her things about the world, in spite of (because of?) the fact that he's already broken many of the rules that he's going to try to teach her about. She made no sort of commitment to good there.
In fact, I strongly believe that the concepts of
good and
evil as we know them are alien to her. She is from a time when great monsters (demons) war with other great monsters for power. There's nothing good
or evil there because they're not human. They either had a different moral code or no moral code at all. Right now Illyria is probably in Curious Learning Mode. She has to know what good and evil are first before she can decide which path makes the most sense for her.
Kuznya said:
Now out of wishful thinking. We dont know how many memories Illaria has of Freds. It might be possible that the process that created Illaria might be reversed if she realizes she just cant survive in this world and bring fred back in her place. Not likely but hey one can dream right?
Count Scarlioni:
Time, professor. It is all a matter of
time.
Kuznya said:
PS. hi all Ive been poking around these boards for sometime since last season
Hi.
Kuznya said:
but been avoiding reading since at the end of last season I read a bunch of spoilers that kinda ruined the end for Season 4 for me.
Well that was silly, wasn't it?
😉
Kuznya said:
Lets see if I can resist the temptation this time.
If you post often enough, perhaps the desire for spoilers can be negated.
