Discussion of 5.20 'The Girl in Question' (US/WB) Airing 5th May

Liam said:
Judging by the episode alone, that had to be the funniest episode this season.
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Funniest episode, I would have to say Smile Time. This one had amusing scenes but I wouldn't say it was funny, but thats just me.
 
nerd4hire said:
I still say if you want to make Dum and Dummer 3, then make it, but don't be messing with my Spike and Angel characters. All of a sudden every clown in Italy can thump on them. Hey maybe that's the secret to defeating Angel's Avengers. Attack them with Italians.
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Dumb and Dumber. There is a B in there. And please explain your "All of a sudden every clown in Italy can thump on them" comment. There were a couple fight scenes, and Angel/Spike were on top...

So make a cartoon then. All of a sudden there's 2 episodes left, and I'm assuming next week I'm going to be asked to believe Angel and Spike are champions again. I just can't make that jump from Champions to Buffoons to Champions. Maybe it's just me.
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It's too bad you strive to disappoint yourself. I'm going to enjoy myself with the last couple episodes. Or at least keep a positive outlook.
 
I don't generally correct small technical errors. It seems like a petty way to make your point, but as long as we're going there

The Paris scenes, though, were hillarious
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when did they move Paris to Italy?
 
Ninjalizer said:
I'm going to enjoy myself with the last couple episodes. Or at least keep a positive outlook.
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I'm with you on this part--I'm going to enjoy the last two episodes for whatever they turn out to be.

Helga the Viking said:
I'm just worried they wont have time to resolve all that w/ only two episodes left. hmmm....
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Don't worry, I'm fairly sure they won't have time to resolve all that. Best I think we can hope for is a semi-lame "grand vague statement" pasted onto the tail end of the very last episode. These things happen when you think you'll have at least a-whole-nother season in which to tell your story and then you find out, towards the end of the current season... that you don't.

But don't let it get to you so. Just appreciate what's given. Or not. Rant and rave if you like, but it won't change things at this time or in the near future.

It's true last two episodes ever may not have everything every fan wants, but so what? Just sitting there, in advance, figuring out how you think the season should end is a really great way to disappoint yourself. I should know, I did this to some extent towards the end of season seven Buffy. I still appreciated the ending, but not as much as I might have if I hadn't built up so many expectations about where I thought they were going with things.

Also, I must say I find it rather interesting that many fans seem to apparently think they know the characters better than the characters' own creators and hired writers.

I think the test of time will vindicate this episode; if not as the "Best Episode Ever" as I so gleefully said before, then at least as a vrey good, very funny episode worthy of multiple viewings.
 
WyrdDemonHunter said:
Also, I must say I find it rather interesting that many fans seem to apparently think they know the characters better than the characters' own creators and hired writers.
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Ordinarily I'd agree with you. That bugs me too, but there are extenuating circumstances here.

It's the champs to chumps, without any character progression, or motivating factors to explain the change thing, that I disapprove of. If they had made a point of directing our eyes to a noticeable theme like "Love makes fools of us all" I would go with the flow, but they don't do that.

Instead they say remember those Champions you followed for the previous years...OK they don't exist this week. This week they're just a couple of semi-potent, cuckolded Boobs. Remember the spooky power of Wolfram & Hart? OK, well that's nothing much either. The real power is a goofy, big-boobed, Donatello clone.

At this point the writers have defied my ability to suspend disbelief, and I have the right as a fan to express my displeasure. I'm not saying they don't know what they're doing. I'm saying I don't like it when character integrity is sacrificed to silly, adolescent, bathroom humour.

Previous humourous episodes such as Smile Time, Harm's Way, and Disharmony found a way to be funny without telling us the basic tenet of Angel as Champion was false.

And what's with this, "You're not a fan, because you don't think like I do" nonsense. You're just joking, right?
 
Angel and Spike are still champions, but they were in a foreign place, without their team, without their resources, chasing after the girl they love who is being wooed by the man (demon? whatever?) that slept with both of their exes. Surely thats got to be a kick in the ah-hm and might make them act less then champion.
 
I felt about Smile Time close to the way you feel about The Girl In Question. It took great effort for me to accept Angel being a (literal) puppet. I kept waiting for Kermit to jump out.

OTOH, we've seen Angel and Spike be made fools of on numerous occasions. Only thing really new here is we have a guy name of The Immortal that has the special gift of making Spike and Angel into fools for a prolonged period of time, and without our ever even seeing him. The 1894 scene might have annoyed me except I took the interpretation that, at that moment Angel(us) were merely temporary allies in adversity. The fact that they were acting exactly the same then as now merely shows how their present situation mirrored their preovious situation. The sleight commited twice stings twice as much or something like that. Anyway, it makes it funnier.



nerd4hire said:
And what's with this, "You're not a fan, because you don't think like I do" nonsense. You're just joking, right?
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It was not my intent to say that people with different views are not fans; it was my intent to say that people with different views are wrong. But I also know it's wrong of me to say that--that is I know and (try) to respect that everyone is entitled to their own view.

It's just sometimes I forget and turn into a judgemental a**hole. It's just a character flaw that I have. 🙁
Be thankful you don't have to know me IRL. 🙂
 
MentPatient said:
That scene was SO FUNNY! So was the part where Angelus said "Go ahead, I'll snatch your little wee sticks out of the air and spend the next 4-9 shoving them slowly up your arse." I'm not sure about "4-9" part becuase my TV scrwed up the sound there...
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The word he uses is fortnight.
 
Like someone else said, no one knows these characters like the creators. I mean Angel has been goofy ever since Epiphany in season 2 and Spike wasn't exactly "In character" throughout season 4 of Buffy, but it never really changed who they are: Champions with bad days.

They fumbled, and they fumbled, all because of their obsession with Buffy & the Immortal, who as WyrdDemonHunter said, managed to screw Angel and Spike over just as he did in 1894, not because of Angel and Spike's lack of heroics. If Buffy weren't involved, they'd probably had been alot more champion-like.

Also, we really shouldn't judge this episode as the 3rd final episode of the series and see is for itself: A really really funny eppy.
 
B
Blackarachnia
I agree totally and thanks for finally standing up for this ep!! - BA
Yeah... sorry like I said my TV is stupid and kind of broken. Anyhow, that part WAS funny!

What's fortnight?

[Edit]
Nevermind... I was smart enough to go dictionary.com

FYI.... it means 2 weeks.
[/Edit]
 
ABSOLUTLY ATROCIOUS in my opinion. What the hell was that!
1. William and Angelus were COMPLETLY out of character when you compare it to other flashbacks of that period.
2. Dru and Darla were wasted.
3. Dawn would have made most of Andrews lines better.
4. Plot inconsistencies galore!
5. How I'd Buffy meet the Immortal in the first place, doesn't she want a normal life?
6. Nina/Angel, wtf.

Few good things...

1. Fred/Wesley stuff was good.
2. Slow-mo fight was funny.
3 As was 50's Spike n Dru.
Italian demons and W+H.
4. Andrew moving on.
 
Liam said:
Like someone else said, no one knows these characters like the creators. I mean Angel has been goofy ever since Epiphany in season 2 and Spike wasn't exactly "In character" throughout season 4 of Buffy, but it never really changed who they are: Champions with bad days.

They fumbled, and they fumbled, all because of their obsession with Buffy & the Immortal, who as WyrdDemonHunter said, managed to screw Angel and Spike over just as he did in 1894, not because of Angel and Spike's lack of heroics. If Buffy weren't involved, they'd probably had been alot more champion-like.

Also, we really shouldn't judge this episode as the 3rd final episode of the series and see is for itself: A really really funny eppy.
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I've been pretty quiet about his one but finally, someone who sees it for what it was. It was hilarious, it dealt with the Buffy issue (which, yes, should have been earlier in the season), it was heart-breaking with Fred and Wes and I actually liked Angel even more. And it was so great to see Angelus again. Love that guy!!!!
 
I'm glad that Illyria said that she can appear however she chooses, as this finally explains why her make-up constantly changes from ep to ep. 😉
 
a) i loved the Italian CEO, she was jokes and pretty hot!
b) i agree with some viewers that this episode seems kinda out of place with the series ending and all..
c) andrew didn't excite me with his appearance nearly as much as the first time (of course).. i guess i was hoping to see another familiar face, just to bump the episode up a notch
d) i REALLY wanted to see what the immortal dude looked like!
e) i know i shouldn't expect SO much but the same W&H building was kinda blah..

but i'm still very stoked for the final episodes!
 
I didn't think they were out of character at all. They both do stupid things when it comes to Buffy.

I thought this episode was hilarious. And for an episode about Spuffy/Bangel, the Spangel was TEXT! Darla and Dru were funny, the italian lady was hilarious.

As for it's not the third to last ep ever, well, they probably should have done something earlier, but they had Illyria to deal with... there's a lot of stuff that needs to be done with. Buffy was one of them. Now we move on... they have two episodes to do final stuff, I'm sure they know what they are doing.
 
Yes, I liked the episode as well and I also didn't think Angel and Spike were out of character.

Now about it being really close to the last episode ever. Here's the deal: how far in advance do they write scripts, does anyone know? How far in advance do they build sets, make props and moster suits, does anyone know? How far in advance do they shoot episodes, does anyone know?
 
Wyrd, I know the last episode was filmed about last month or something. Script will have been written about a month before that, to give time for re-writes, director to storyboard and build any new sets if needed.
 
Actually, I never thought Spike and Angel were out of character-I thought SPIKE and ANGELUS were out of character-in the flashbacks.
 
Jacklyn said:
Actually, I never thought Spike and Angel were out of character-I thought SPIKE and ANGELUS were out of character-in the flashbacks.
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I can see that to some extent. And it definitely seems like Spike's accent has gone all to hell this season. I mean he still has an accent and I like how it sounds but it doesn't seem to sound anything like how it used to sound.

But about William the Bloody and Angelus: See I don't think these guys were at each other's throats all the time. I think they were at each others throats most of the time and that flashback was a rare exception because they had a common adversary in The Immortal.

So, because of that, I mostly don't see them as having been out of character in the flashback. The fact that they seemed to be acting almost the same in the flashback as in the present was done on purpose to show how closely their present situation mirrored that other situation 200 years ago. The fact that so many things have changed since then, but that even so the Immortal is getting the better of them again is supposed to be funny and, for me, it is.

"The more things change, the more they stay the same" as the oxymoronic cliche goes.
::rolf:: ::dance:: 🙂
 
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