Discussion of 5.22 "Not Fade Away" (WB-US) - Airing 5/19/04

Buffy Summers

Yataro
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from thewb.com:

Angel (David Boreanaz) and company spend the day as if it were their last as they prepare to bring down the evil Circle of the Black Thorn. Putting their lives on the line, Spike (James Marsters) confronts a demon cult, Lorne (Andy Hallett) faces off with Lindsay (Christian Kane), Gunn (J. August Richards) takes on an evil senator and Angel battles Hamilton (Adam Baldwin), the henchman of the Senior Partners.

Discuss away
 
wow I'm in the middle of this episode...wow its soo good. I loved Angel's line "I want you Lindsey"...lol "Maybe I should rephrase that".

Wow, ok Lorne just killed Lindsey, that was a shock, I think I may have gasped..lol

omg omg. Wesley!!! I can't belive he just died! That scene between him and "Fred" was very sweet, so Illyria is finally feeling some emotions...Well atleast him and the real fred will be together now.

Ok, wow, that was such a bad ending!! Whats going to happen!! I need more!!

Ok, is angel just ending on the WB or is it totally over, because what was with that "Thank You" thing at the end.....??
 
It was a great episode, very action packed.

It was funny with the help of Harmony, and angsty with the death of Wes. Ofcourse seeing the image of Fred agian was great, Illyria is very much like Anya I think, trying to sort out all of these new feelings, not being all powerful, and actually loving someone.

Each fight was intresting, and it was nice to see Wes go alittle different and use magic even though he isnt at the level Giles and Willow are. It was very saddening to see him die but I feel that his charecter was brought around full play(like Anya) and now he finally gets to rest in peace.

Seeing Connor helping out was great, nice seeing him kick some ass. He is deffinatly like Dawn he started out annoying but these 2 times we've seen him I actually liked him a lot.

Lorne killing Linsdey was surpriseing and he reminded me of Giles when doing it(since Giles killed Ben who was human), and it was sad to see him not there with the remaining 4 Fang Gang members.

The end was just great, even though I imagined it to be more hellish looking, seeing all the monsters coming after them was great and Gunn may die a natural death. It deffinatly left a good closeing to the show and depending on how you view it a cliff-hanger.

And I have to give TheWB props for atleast thanking Angel for being on its network for 5 years(I was waiting to see it, they also did it with Buffy) and I totally loved seeing all the clips from past episodes, it was a nice rememberance of the series.

I think that TheWB will be lucky to ever find a show that was like Angel(or Buffy)

a deffinate 9/10. To bad it wasnt 2 hours so they couldve added more.

It was a great episode, very action packed.

It was funny with the help of Harmony, and angsty with the death of Wes. Ofcourse seeing the image of Fred agian was great, Illyria is very much like Anya I think, trying to sort out all of these new feelings, not being all powerful, and actually loving someone.

Each fight was intresting, and it was nice to see Wes go alittle different and use magic even though he isnt at the level Giles and Willow are. It was very saddening to see him die but I feel that his charecter was brought around full play(like Anya) and now he finally gets to rest in peace.

Seeing Connor helping out was great, nice seeing him kick some ass. He is deffinatly like Dawn he started out annoying but these 2 times we've seen him I actually liked him a lot.

Lorne killing Linsdey was surpriseing and he reminded me of Giles when doing it(since Giles killed Ben who was human), and it was sad to see him not there with the remaining 4 Fang Gang members.

The end was just great, even though I imagined it to be more hellish looking, seeing all the monsters coming after them was great and Gunn may die a natural death. It deffinatly left a good closeing to the show and depending on how you view it a cliff-hanger.

And I have to give TheWB props for atleast thanking Angel for being on its network for 5 years(I was waiting to see it, they also did it with Buffy) and I totally loved seeing all the clips from past episodes, it was a nice rememberance of the series.

I think that TheWB will be lucky to ever find a show that was like Angel(or Buffy)

a deffinate 9/10. To bad it wasnt 2 hours so they couldve added more.

It was a great episode, very action packed.

It was funny with the help of Harmony, and angsty with the death of Wes. Ofcourse seeing the image of Fred agian was great, Illyria is very much like Anya I think, trying to sort out all of these new feelings, not being all powerful, and actually loving someone.

Each fight was intresting, and it was nice to see Wes go alittle different and use magic even though he isnt at the level Giles and Willow are. It was very saddening to see him die but I feel that his charecter was brought around full play(like Anya) and now he finally gets to rest in peace.

Seeing Connor helping out was great, nice seeing him kick some ass. He is deffinatly like Dawn he started out annoying but these 2 times we've seen him I actually liked him a lot.

Lorne killing Linsdey was surpriseing and he reminded me of Giles when doing it(since Giles killed Ben who was human), and it was sad to see him not there with the remaining 4 Fang Gang members.

The end was just great, even though I imagined it to be more hellish looking, seeing all the monsters coming after them was great and Gunn may die a natural death. It deffinatly left a good closeing to the show and depending on how you view it a cliff-hanger.

And I have to give TheWB props for atleast thanking Angel for being on its network for 5 years(I was waiting to see it, they also did it with Buffy) and I totally loved seeing all the clips from past episodes, it was a nice rememberance of the series.

I think that TheWB will be lucky to ever find a show that was like Angel(or Buffy)

a deffinate 9/10. To bad it wasnt 2 hours so they couldve added more.
 
It was good. I was totally spoiled but I still enjoyed it. But what will Joss do after the "Firefly" movie is done, besides write "X-Men." Many of us loved the Buffyverse. It was so interesting ... and we want to see something happen in that world. Even "Psychotic Vampire Slayer," followed by "Conner, Son of a Vampire."
 
::huh:: What was that! I am not a happy camper! That wasn't an ending. ::grrr:: I want to tune in next week to see what happens. I have to say I loved many things about this episode but not the final scene. Oh why can't there be a 6th season of Angel. 🙁
 
I loved the episode...except I wasn't too fond of the ending. The fights were awesome...each and every one. I was very surprised that Lorne shot Lindsey though. I never thought he'd do anything like that. And, he wasn't planning on meeting up in the alley, which was kind of sad too. So, I guess Lorne just went off...away. I was very sad about Wesley's death, but I am glad he gets to be with Fred again. It's all he ever wanted. I wasn't expecting a betrayal by Harmony, nor was I expecting Connor to appear for the fight against Hamilton. It all fit so perfectly...except the ending. I mean, it was cool, but I hated the abrupt and final cut-off. I really want a 6th season. It still ticks me off that the WB cancelled such a great show.
 
It was a great ending i cant stop crying I hate that Wesley was killed off... Its so not fair i like how lorne killed lindsey so he didn't cause any trouble and how Connor was in the finale.. But i still am pretty pissed that the wb cancelled angel and i hated how at the end they go thank you "Your Friends at the WB" They really aren't our friends anymore they're enemies as far as i'm concerned.... but It was a great episode... I just can't believe its over its just not right...
 
Oh...my...god. I'm just still stuck on those three words. And the fact that Wes is dead. At least he died a spectacular death. But...he's still dead. Grr...

Lorne killing Lindsey...interesting twist.

Harmony and Hamilton...LOL...Did anyone think, at first, that as her "last day" she'd gone out and eaten someone?

Spike reading his poetry was *priceless*.

Anne!! Nice to hear what's been up with her.

I think I liked everyone's final "happy scenes", but it made losing the show all the worse...

The ending...I'm iffy on. When the end credits started to pop up, my first reaction was "WHAT THE...?!". In hindsight, I suppose it leaves the door open for the story to continue.

Still can't get over Wes dying...*sigh*
 
Primal Slayer said:
It was a great episode, very action packed.

It was funny with the help of Harmony, and angsty with the death of Wes. Ofcourse seeing the image of Fred agian was great, Illyria is very much like Anya I think, trying to sort out all of these new feelings, not being all powerful, and actually loving someone.

Each fight was intresting, and it was nice to see Wes go alittle different and use magic even though he isnt at the level Giles and Willow are. It was very saddening to see him die but I feel that his charecter was brought around full play(like Anya) and now he finally gets to rest in peace.

Seeing Connor helping out was great, nice seeing him kick some ass. He is deffinatly like Dawn he started out annoying but these 2 times we've seen him I actually liked him a lot.

Lorne killing Linsdey was surpriseing and he reminded me of Giles when doing it(since Giles killed Ben who was human), and it was sad to see him not there with the remaining 4 Fang Gang members.

The end was just great, even though I imagined it to be more hellish looking, seeing all the monsters coming after them was great and Gunn may die a natural death. It deffinatly left a good closeing to the show and depending on how you view it a cliff-hanger.

And I have to give TheWB props for atleast thanking Angel for being on its network for 5 years(I was waiting to see it, they also did it with Buffy) and I totally loved seeing all the clips from past episodes, it was a nice rememberance of the series.

I think that TheWB will be lucky to ever find a show that was like Angel(or Buffy)

a deffinate 9/10. To bad it wasnt 2 hours so they couldve added more.

It was a great episode, very action packed.

It was funny with the help of Harmony, and angsty with the death of Wes. Ofcourse seeing the image of Fred agian was great, Illyria is very much like Anya I think, trying to sort out all of these new feelings, not being all powerful, and actually loving someone.

Each fight was intresting, and it was nice to see Wes go alittle different and use magic even though he isnt at the level Giles and Willow are. It was very saddening to see him die but I feel that his charecter was brought around full play(like Anya) and now he finally gets to rest in peace.

Seeing Connor helping out was great, nice seeing him kick some ass. He is deffinatly like Dawn he started out annoying but these 2 times we've seen him I actually liked him a lot.

Lorne killing Linsdey was surpriseing and he reminded me of Giles when doing it(since Giles killed Ben who was human), and it was sad to see him not there with the remaining 4 Fang Gang members.

The end was just great, even though I imagined it to be more hellish looking, seeing all the monsters coming after them was great and Gunn may die a natural death. It deffinatly left a good closeing to the show and depending on how you view it a cliff-hanger.

And I have to give TheWB props for atleast thanking Angel for being on its network for 5 years(I was waiting to see it, they also did it with Buffy) and I totally loved seeing all the clips from past episodes, it was a nice rememberance of the series.

I think that TheWB will be lucky to ever find a show that was like Angel(or Buffy)

a deffinate 9/10. To bad it wasnt 2 hours so they couldve added more.

It was a great episode, very action packed.

It was funny with the help of Harmony, and angsty with the death of Wes. Ofcourse seeing the image of Fred agian was great, Illyria is very much like Anya I think, trying to sort out all of these new feelings, not being all powerful, and actually loving someone.

Each fight was intresting, and it was nice to see Wes go alittle different and use magic even though he isnt at the level Giles and Willow are. It was very saddening to see him die but I feel that his charecter was brought around full play(like Anya) and now he finally gets to rest in peace.

Seeing Connor helping out was great, nice seeing him kick some ass. He is deffinatly like Dawn he started out annoying but these 2 times we've seen him I actually liked him a lot.

Lorne killing Linsdey was surpriseing and he reminded me of Giles when doing it(since Giles killed Ben who was human), and it was sad to see him not there with the remaining 4 Fang Gang members.

The end was just great, even though I imagined it to be more hellish looking, seeing all the monsters coming after them was great and Gunn may die a natural death. It deffinatly left a good closeing to the show and depending on how you view it a cliff-hanger.

And I have to give TheWB props for atleast thanking Angel for being on its network for 5 years(I was waiting to see it, they also did it with Buffy) and I totally loved seeing all the clips from past episodes, it was a nice rememberance of the series.

I think that TheWB will be lucky to ever find a show that was like Angel(or Buffy)

a deffinate 9/10. To bad it wasnt 2 hours so they couldve added more.
i have to say that i agree with you, i need to watch it again to let it all sink in


i am so frickin pissed that it did not get a full two hours....... IMO it needed and has earned it...

*frowns at the wb*
 
Wow... just wow! I absolutely loved this episode, from beginning to end.

I wept like a baby when Wesley died. His death scene was just so... touching and angsty. The look on Illyria's face just right before she killed Vail was totally awesome. She put all her grief and rage into that one punch. Awesome!

It was nice to see Anne again.

Spike finally got the props he deserved for his poetry.

After watching it for the second time, I came to the conclussion that Angel had Lorne kill Lindsey 'cause he couldn't trust him. Lorne told Angel that this was the last thing he'd do for him and he was through, and when Angel came back to Eve and she asked about Lindsey, he said Lindsey's not coming back. So he knew. Lindsey would've never suspected Lorne of all people to be the one to kill him.

Even before I read the spoilers I somehow knew Harm was going to betray the gang. It's just her nature.

Angel and Hamilton's fight scene, I felt, took up too much time. I would have liked to seen more of the gang fighting their enemies, especially Illyria.

When the ending credits came up, I screamed "NO!" I didn't want it to end!

There will never be another show like Angel on TV, ever. May WB burn in hell for cancelling it.
 
First time poster, long time watcher. I still cant believe no one has seen it yet. Angel has played his role in the prophecy, whether he lives or dies, Angel has played a crucial in the end. Basically he took out the source of the apocalypse on earth, and has forced the senior partners to play to his game. Whether he lives or dies, Angel has started the war that will decide outcome of the whole ordeal that he has been fighting for five years. To me, i think they couldnt have ended a show in such a better way.
 
PiperMaroon25 said:
There will never be another show like Angel on TV, ever. May WB burn in hell for cancelling it.
Here here! :: party : I wasn't too fond of their little thank you message. I'm not at all happy with their actions, and I don't consider them friends. I'm just bitter.
 
::devil:: Big Bad ::devil:: here.....and I am ::change:: so ::change:: , ::crying:: so ::crying:: , 😡 so 😡 , ::huh1:: I dunno ::huh1:: . I feel like I'm going thru every possible human emotion all at once.

I loved this episode very much. But like some others have mentioned, I really was some what disapointed with the ending. It kinda left a sweet yet foul taste in my mouth. Lemmie explain what I mean. I understand why they ended it like they did (in the hopes that if some how, some way, another season can be made then they can contiune the story in a way) so I was happy about that, the only bad part (and someone PLEASE CORRECT ME if I'm wrong) is that isn't too late to get another season? I mean if another network was going to pick up Angel then someone would have heard about it by now, right? So in a way I feel that they could have given the show a better ending, yet I understand and even appreciate how they ended it. I'm still a sucker for happy endings, and I'm praying that somehow Angel might still get another chance in some form or shape.

Anyway, wow there were so many things that were great about this episode, as well as sad. And I guess Joss might be a tad bit psychic or something, cause this episode answered my question from the last episode about what Harmony's role would be in the end. Guess I was the only one who was hoping that she would have been on the good side for once. Oh well, guess it's just like Harmony said in Just-Rewards; Harmony:"But I guess the leopard can't change his stripes." And wow.....people of this era actually like Spike/William's poems. I almost cried in joy when the audience clapped for him (dunno why, but I thought they would have either been like "huh" or just booed him off the stage). Wes died (somehow saw that one coming) and Lorne killed Lindsey (....didn't see that one coming). And it was a nice touch seeing Conner help out his dear ol' daddy-lol. Gunn did pretty good against all those vamps, although it looked liked the wounds he recieved would have him joining Wes pretty soon. And Illyria......I got the sense of deja-vu when she punched Vail's head and it exploded. Made me remember the time Connor punched his hand thru Jasmine's head. Just goes to show, beware the wrath of a Old-One scorn!!!

Well that's all I have to say about this wonderful episode. Hopefully Joss will come up with another show/series that will help me endure the pain of losing yet another wonderful show.

Good-Bye Angel. You Will Be Greatly Missed!
 
I can't understand why any fan of this show wouldn't love this episode and its ending. I can understand a desire to have everything wrapped up, but that path in a finale is almost never a good idea. Think about it -- would it really have made any sense for Angel and the rest to spend five years fighting and dying in an eternal conflict with evil, only to have everything neatly tied up with a bow in 40 minutes?

Buffy's finale did its best to stick to the themes that had driven the show -- themes of friendship and female empowerment. Angel did likewise, but the themes of Angel aren't so clear cut, nor so pretty, as those of its sister show.

If I had to try to sum up those themes as succintly as possible, I think it would go something like this:

"The difference between good and evil is rarely clear, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The bad guys don't always lose, the good guys don't always win. People die. ...And it never ends; so long as a single person lives, and quite possibly long after that last person dies, the battle for their soul will continue. All that you can ask of a person is that they fight."

A good definition? Maybe not. Despite my best attempts, it isn't particularly concise. Still, I believe it to be true. What other way could it end than Angel and his companions fighting until the end?

I certainly can't think of one.
 
I totally loved the last show. And the cliffhanger was awesome. My sister told me she heard a rumor about the cast doing an extra scene after the credits that would be included and announced as a big surprise when season 5 hits DVD in order to majorly BOOST sales. But that's just a rumor. Might be true though. Ya never know. lol.

Anyways, I'm looking forward to some sorta spin-off. Maybe a Spike or Illyria centric series that would take place after the final battle. I think Marsters would jump at the chance to have his own show, seeing as after Buffy ended, he shot right onto Angel. I think he likes his Spike role and wouldn't mind doing it for a few more years. I could SO see Spike and Illyria (James and Amy) doing a show together. And maybe Eve could turn good and join their team seeing as she has no place to go. lol.I'm willing to bet a ton that we haven't seen the last of the Buffy-verse. We've just gotta be patient and wait. It shall come, my people, it.......shall........come.
 
I very much liked your statement, Deviant. It could be applied to many things in life. True, we may never know what happens to our heroes, but all that matters is we know they went out fighting. I'm still holding out for a continuance of some kind.
 
I agree. Deviant, that was very well put. The ending was perfect. Terribly sad, but perfect. All you who wanted to end happily, should go back to Buffy. You were watching the wrong show. It was nice how they did away with the whole Shanshu prophecy towards the very beginning. Wow. I definitely wasn't expecting that one.

I loved how they all seperated to do their own jobs. It was great. Angel and Hamilton did need the longest fight scene. It's Angel. The day off for each of them was nice...but it could have been done away with. They could have used that time to have some more fighting. I truly think that more fighting was needed in this final showdown.

For some reason, I got teary eyed when Lorne killed Lindsay. I think the whole execution was just beautiful. Wes...I lost it. I was crying. 21 year old boys don't cry over tv!!! I guess that's just how powerful this show is. How great it is. my eyes were puffy...still are. I wish Angel would've killed Harmony. I don't understand why he would let her walk away like that. I really loved Illyria in this episode. How she started to adapt, how she felt compassion for Wesley, and how she was a part of the team.

In the aftermath, this wasn't a cliffhanger. It looked to me like they were ready to die. Angel even had some dialogue earlier with Spike about how they weren't going to survive this. After this, I can't see a season 6. I know it's all over. But I would just like to see The WB come back realizing their stupid mistake, asking for Joss to bring the show back...and Joss turning them down. "I ended it...didn't you see?"

So that's what this is...the end.
 
I am not even going to try to post all of my opinions about this episode. As with every other episode in the season, it made me yearn for another season. Just like the rest of you, I would also love to see a spin-off. However, both seem unlikely. In fact, any continuation of Buffy and Angel's universe on television seems unlikely. I sincerely hope that another show this creative and captivating comes along soon. My life will not be the same without it. 🙁
 
Ninjalizer said:
For some reason, I got teary eyed when Lorne killed Lindsay. I think the whole execution was just beautiful.

I'm really going to miss Lorne. He's always been the "non-violent" one of the bunch, and for him to kill Lindsey execution-style blew my mind. Lorne seemed so...broken...

Wes...I lost it. I was crying. 21 year old boys don't cry over tv!!!

Who says boys can't cry?? 😛 I'm still all weepy about Wes's death. When Illyria (who I loved in this ep..) changed into Fred...I was gone. Couldn't barely see the tv through the tears. Right after the episode, I was listening to "Dust in the Wind" and realized that it seems very fitting. Bad thing is, I can't listen to that song anymore without bursting into tears...
 
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