Angel's vision
Silence! I Keel you!
Could also be that the "Wake up" spell plan will turn against her .... wasn't agood idea anyway .. I'm thinging Gigi will have something to do with it, they both have superiority complexes.
Discussion of 8.10 "Anywhere But Here" - Released 01/02/08 (Dark Horse)
- Thread starter nerd4hire
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She could have moved on, moved away with Tara and the others, started a new life and been happy. But instead she revived the slayer (who was quite happy in heaven herself) and put Tara in danger by keeping her near the slayer who is like a big target, and it got her killed. So Willow feels responsible - her love would still be alive if Buffy stayed dead.
Edit:
Wow, I just saw the reply from Robin's husband on Wikipedia after they received the issue.
nerd4hire
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Well now, that is cool. I know a little bit about schizophrenia. Read a bit, knew someone, met the odd schizophrenic in a job I had. I was under the impression a lot of it was controllable with drugs, but I know there's quite a few different kinds of schizophrenia. I think autism is a kind of schizophrenia. Some people seem to think it's just split personality disorder, but it's not.
On Willow's problem with Buffy. My impression was Willow was thinking of her life as having 2 paths. The path that led to her and Tara alone, and the path that led to adding Buffy. The Buffy path in Willow's mind was one that led to destruction. She regretted putting Tara on it, and wasn't going to do the same thing with Kennedy.
So here's a thought...If Kennedy returns, and dies, how pissed is Willow going to be at Buffy. I still think that stone Willow's wearing in the upcoming cover to #13 looks like Anya's vengeance demon stone. What a twist that would be eh? If Willow took D'hofryn up on his old offer.
On Willow's problem with Buffy. My impression was Willow was thinking of her life as having 2 paths. The path that led to her and Tara alone, and the path that led to adding Buffy. The Buffy path in Willow's mind was one that led to destruction. She regretted putting Tara on it, and wasn't going to do the same thing with Kennedy.
So here's a thought...If Kennedy returns, and dies, how pissed is Willow going to be at Buffy. I still think that stone Willow's wearing in the upcoming cover to #13 looks like Anya's vengeance demon stone. What a twist that would be eh? If Willow took D'hofryn up on his old offer.
^_^ Then, Xander could Wish Anya back to life and all would be well in the world. : king ::lmao:
Evilyn
Symphony of Destruction
I don't think it will be Willow that betrays Buffy. I mean if you really think about it, Willow would probably want the world as back to normal as possible so she could have a "normal" life with Kennedy. She wouldn't need to use magick if there were no demons or other baddies to worry about.
Buffy on the other hand seems to be taking more advantage of her power and would probably be the one that wouldn't want the world to be normal again. Because if they did away with magick and there were no more demons and vamps and mystical things then there would be no Willow, Angel, Spike, Dawn or other slayers. She really would be all alone if that happened.
Buffy on the other hand seems to be taking more advantage of her power and would probably be the one that wouldn't want the world to be normal again. Because if they did away with magick and there were no more demons and vamps and mystical things then there would be no Willow, Angel, Spike, Dawn or other slayers. She really would be all alone if that happened.
Haven't read everyones posts yet, seems like I have so much extra to read when I finally get my issue but here were my initial thoughts.
Got this today, I am so ordering from kings comics again, got it in 2 days.
So I just finished reading it.. I did enjoy it, but left me feeling a bit sad. And actually a little pissed off at Willow. Her fears about putting the woman she loves in danger by being around Buffy aren't really fair. I suppose if I think about it, it makes some sense, but what happens to Buffy isn't her fault. Don't like being annoyed with Willow because she's my favourite character.. but yeah. Seems like I had a different reaction to most people I'm still in the 'Kennedy is a brat' camp. Used to like her, but seen more bad then good.
Although this makes more sense to me now. Back when Angel season 5 aired I didn't understand why the scoobies would be all separate.. especially Willow. Seems like Xander is really Buffy's last true supporter.. in a way. And I will not be happy if he turns out to be the betrayer.
And the Buffy being a thief ... um wtf? Talk about a departure from her character. She sounds like Faith, actually worse then Faith justifying herself. I'm not sure what to say about that.. still in shock 😛
Wouldn't mind seeing more of what Willow was up to. And all the weird talk I still didn't get a grip on.
Kenny still sounds like a dick to me.. suppose Willow can change her back now?
I read a lot of posts on another forum and I think I sort of agree that if Buffy is going further and further dark, she does need a betrayer.
Got this today, I am so ordering from kings comics again, got it in 2 days.
So I just finished reading it.. I did enjoy it, but left me feeling a bit sad. And actually a little pissed off at Willow. Her fears about putting the woman she loves in danger by being around Buffy aren't really fair. I suppose if I think about it, it makes some sense, but what happens to Buffy isn't her fault. Don't like being annoyed with Willow because she's my favourite character.. but yeah. Seems like I had a different reaction to most people I'm still in the 'Kennedy is a brat' camp. Used to like her, but seen more bad then good.
Although this makes more sense to me now. Back when Angel season 5 aired I didn't understand why the scoobies would be all separate.. especially Willow. Seems like Xander is really Buffy's last true supporter.. in a way. And I will not be happy if he turns out to be the betrayer.
And the Buffy being a thief ... um wtf? Talk about a departure from her character. She sounds like Faith, actually worse then Faith justifying herself. I'm not sure what to say about that.. still in shock 😛
Wouldn't mind seeing more of what Willow was up to. And all the weird talk I still didn't get a grip on.
Kenny still sounds like a dick to me.. suppose Willow can change her back now?
I read a lot of posts on another forum and I think I sort of agree that if Buffy is going further and further dark, she does need a betrayer.
Clem Rocks
Scooby
A few theories of what will happen and who will betray Buffy:
Willow struggles to let Kennedy be around Buffy and when she finally lets it happen, Warren kills Kennedy. Willow blames Buffy and turns on her.
Or
The closest thing to a Slayer = Other Slayers. Maybe something happens involving Gigi wanting to get rid of Queen Buffy, and someone else becomes the Slayer Queen, and all of the Slayerettes choose her over Buffy! =O
Willow struggles to let Kennedy be around Buffy and when she finally lets it happen, Warren kills Kennedy. Willow blames Buffy and turns on her.
Or
The closest thing to a Slayer = Other Slayers. Maybe something happens involving Gigi wanting to get rid of Queen Buffy, and someone else becomes the Slayer Queen, and all of the Slayerettes choose her over Buffy! =O
Good and scary thought about Warren killing Kennedy.
The scene where she is betrayed though.. she's somewhere in the Scottish castle, all cut up and beaten.. crying. It's really pointing to something and someone really personal who could upset Buffy so much.
The scene where she is betrayed though.. she's somewhere in the Scottish castle, all cut up and beaten.. crying. It's really pointing to something and someone really personal who could upset Buffy so much.
Clem Rocks
Scooby
It happens in her castle? Then i'm gonna go with my Slayerettes turning on her theory
A
Allycat
Guest
Remember that Twilight said that he had a "man on the inside" ... I take that to mean the betrayer is already betraying.
Just a quick question about "Dead Buffy" and "Willow and the Snake-Lady". I gather that "Dead Buffy" was something in the future, but was "Willow and the Snake-Lady" something that was still to happen too? I thought it already happened; I thought that was her mystical trip that Kennedy reffered to.
Just a quick question about "Dead Buffy" and "Willow and the Snake-Lady". I gather that "Dead Buffy" was something in the future, but was "Willow and the Snake-Lady" something that was still to happen too? I thought it already happened; I thought that was her mystical trip that Kennedy reffered to.
Cordelia Chase*
Spiley anyone?!
Canon Watch (Spoilers for current issue) - Page 3 - Buffy-Boards
Now Im thinking that WIllow will betray Buffy or atleast know who will. The only way I see Buffy crying is from the cause of Willow, Xnader or Dawn.
I think the slayer girls are with Kennedy. Maybe they planned an attack against BUffy because they think what she is doin is wrong.
Now Im thinking that WIllow will betray Buffy or atleast know who will. The only way I see Buffy crying is from the cause of Willow, Xnader or Dawn.
I think the slayer girls are with Kennedy. Maybe they planned an attack against BUffy because they think what she is doin is wrong.
LittleMissLikesToFight
Into Every Generation...
The Willow with the demon lady is something that has happened. Willow says next 'I was never naughty here' (here being Buffy's castle) - so she is referring back to when she was naughty. Seems to me she was getting information from her.. we don't know why. Some have suggested to bring Kennedy back to life.
You thought Buffy was dead Allycat? She looks very much alive to me, but beaten up and crying obviously. Or was it hinted at that she would die? Maybe I missed something. Took me a while to realize that the demon was showing them scenes from the past and future - not just showing them, but taking them to where it happened to witness it.. kinda like the ghost of Christmas past/present 😛
Think the only thing that confuses me about the issue is the last line by Buffy. When she tells Robin is was demons playing games (Willow mentions that he's playing with them before). But does she mean that she wants to pretend it didn't happen?
You thought Buffy was dead Allycat? She looks very much alive to me, but beaten up and crying obviously. Or was it hinted at that she would die? Maybe I missed something. Took me a while to realize that the demon was showing them scenes from the past and future - not just showing them, but taking them to where it happened to witness it.. kinda like the ghost of Christmas past/present 😛
Think the only thing that confuses me about the issue is the last line by Buffy. When she tells Robin is was demons playing games (Willow mentions that he's playing with them before). But does she mean that she wants to pretend it didn't happen?
A
Allycat
I did get the feeling that she was dying. Although, now that I look at it again maybe she isn't.
nerd4hire
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Now that is an interesting theory. Especially the part about how if it's in the past it may suggest the snake lady thing has something to do with Kennedy's mystical death.
This demands a full investigation I think.
So Sephrilian is this demon who generates a field in which future, present, and past go wonky. Even Buffy and Willow aren't always certain where they are or when, so it's understandable we might have a similar confusion watching them.
He tells them to look, and the four screens on back of his tail separate revealing a blinding light.
Willow (I think it's Willow) isn't even sure where they are.
He shows them a scene from Buffy's past where her and a group of slayers rob a Swiss bank.
Buffy is not liking having to explain this. She's tries to make excuses to explain it. She looks over, and sees another vision developing.
Notice she sees it from where she is in the castle. Notice Willow is still watching the bank scene from the same vantage point.
The next time we see Buffy and Willow they're still at the castle.
Robin asks them How things are going. Buffy replies, "more like where", then inquires of Willow, "Will?".
But Willow and Robin are watching something to the side of Buffy. Will says, "I was never naughty here. I don't even..."
She then asks Robin "Robin, has this happened yet?.
When she talks about "being naughty", I'm going to suggest she's talking about the sexual experience with the snake woman, just because that's the way Willow would describe it.
What are they watching? Whatever it is Willow asks "has this happened yet?"
But Robin is now looking over at something off to the side. She says.
All 3 of them look over to see what Robin is looking at.
This is what they see.
Later Sephrillian shows them an incident involving Willow and Kennedy. It is an incident from Willow's past.
OK, so here's what I think we can agree on. Sephrillian shows them four scenes. 1 is from Willow's past. 1 is from Buffy's. 1 appears to be Buffy's future. When is the 4th taking place. I say until we're told different all indications are it's the future.
Clem Rocks
Scooby
i took it to mean that she thought of Willow as being a demon, seeing as it shows Willow when Buffy says it, and the earlier line from Willow "Let's play a game"
Wow you guys are confusing me, lol.
I originally thought that way n4h, but now I'm pretty sure that when Willow says 'here' she's talking about the castle - before they were in the swiss bank and then possibly in the woods with the demon lady.. but it's not certain. When Willow asks 'has this happened yet?' I thought she was referring to whatever was happening in the castle, which turned out to be Buffy beaten.
I guess this non-linear stuff leaves a lot up to interpretation.
I originally thought that way n4h, but now I'm pretty sure that when Willow says 'here' she's talking about the castle - before they were in the swiss bank and then possibly in the woods with the demon lady.. but it's not certain. When Willow asks 'has this happened yet?' I thought she was referring to whatever was happening in the castle, which turned out to be Buffy beaten.
I guess this non-linear stuff leaves a lot up to interpretation.
nerd4hire
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OK, here's me smiling, because here's what I think I'm hearing. You originally thought like me, but since that time a superior line of reason has appeared showing you why a statement that doesn't really make sense actually does.
Cool I'm always willing to learn. Share.
Wilow says she was never naughty here, and asks if this has happened yet.
You would have me ignore the fact they have been pointing at visions happening in different locations of the castle, and saying stuff that sounds like "look at what you're doing over there". We must also choose not to notice Robin and Willow appear to be watching something out of frame when Willow says she was never naughty here.
Very well I will force my brain to think that way, and await the revelation. OK, so now Willow is standing in the castle. Saying she was never naughty here. You tell me "I'm pretty sure that when Willow says 'here' she's talking about the castle - before they were in the swiss bank and then possibly in the woods with the demon lady".
So Robin appears, and Willow feels obliged to tell her she (Willow) has never been naughty here. Now if I was Robin, and Willow offered me up that little random tidbit, I'd be thinking, "Jeez, and they think I'm crazy".
You say, "When Willow asks 'has this happened yet?' I thought she was referring to whatever was happening in the castle, which turned out to be Buffy beaten."
But they hadn't seen the scene of Buffy been beaten yet. Oh wait a minute. I think I may be starting to get something. Are you saying that as this conversation is going on, the scene Robin and Willow are watching isn't Willow and the Snake Lady? It's beaten Buffy. I don't think you are, but wouldn't that be interesting? It would put the "I've never been naughty here" thing into a whole new context. It would mean destroying Buffy was in Willow's plans. But seeing as Buffy is there wouldn't she realize this? Is that the point though? Is that what really separates Buffy from Willow at the end. She found out Willow had dark plans of treachery against her.
No wait. I'm not going to go there. It's Occams Razor time. Experience has taught me it's better to go with the simpler, more rational explanation. I let you guys talk me out of the simple explanation once before with Tsatsu and the cinnamon lip gloss. It seemed obvious to me Tsatsu was the one who kissed Buffy awake, but I let myself be convinced it was just Joss throwing out red herrings. Then with Ethan Rayne and the XXX thing, it was obvious XXX is 30 in Roman Numerals, and Ethan says he's Roman. The conclusion was the number 30 had something to do with Ethan. But everybody had these marvelous, complex theories of what XXX could mean, and I let myself be seduced away from reason, and simplicity.
Not this time. Buffy and Willow are walking around the castle watching visions of past and future events. 2 are from the past. 2 are from the future. They see a vision of naked Willow and a snake woman. In the next scene Robin has appeared. Her and Willow are watching the scene. Willow says "I was never naughty here" in the same way if you were watching a film with somebody, and you'd already seen it, you might say "watch what happens here". She then asks, "Has this happened yet?" She's still talking about the last scene we saw - Willow and the Snakelady. That's the simple, reasonable explanation. That's the one I'm sticking to.
Hah, bet you though you had me there for a minute, didn't you, you tricky vixen you. Getting my brain all muddled up with complex possibilities...:fighting1 😉
Cool I'm always willing to learn. Share.
Wilow says she was never naughty here, and asks if this has happened yet.
You would have me ignore the fact they have been pointing at visions happening in different locations of the castle, and saying stuff that sounds like "look at what you're doing over there". We must also choose not to notice Robin and Willow appear to be watching something out of frame when Willow says she was never naughty here.
Very well I will force my brain to think that way, and await the revelation. OK, so now Willow is standing in the castle. Saying she was never naughty here. You tell me "I'm pretty sure that when Willow says 'here' she's talking about the castle - before they were in the swiss bank and then possibly in the woods with the demon lady".
So Robin appears, and Willow feels obliged to tell her she (Willow) has never been naughty here. Now if I was Robin, and Willow offered me up that little random tidbit, I'd be thinking, "Jeez, and they think I'm crazy".
You say, "When Willow asks 'has this happened yet?' I thought she was referring to whatever was happening in the castle, which turned out to be Buffy beaten."
But they hadn't seen the scene of Buffy been beaten yet. Oh wait a minute. I think I may be starting to get something. Are you saying that as this conversation is going on, the scene Robin and Willow are watching isn't Willow and the Snake Lady? It's beaten Buffy. I don't think you are, but wouldn't that be interesting? It would put the "I've never been naughty here" thing into a whole new context. It would mean destroying Buffy was in Willow's plans. But seeing as Buffy is there wouldn't she realize this? Is that the point though? Is that what really separates Buffy from Willow at the end. She found out Willow had dark plans of treachery against her.
No wait. I'm not going to go there. It's Occams Razor time. Experience has taught me it's better to go with the simpler, more rational explanation. I let you guys talk me out of the simple explanation once before with Tsatsu and the cinnamon lip gloss. It seemed obvious to me Tsatsu was the one who kissed Buffy awake, but I let myself be convinced it was just Joss throwing out red herrings. Then with Ethan Rayne and the XXX thing, it was obvious XXX is 30 in Roman Numerals, and Ethan says he's Roman. The conclusion was the number 30 had something to do with Ethan. But everybody had these marvelous, complex theories of what XXX could mean, and I let myself be seduced away from reason, and simplicity.
Not this time. Buffy and Willow are walking around the castle watching visions of past and future events. 2 are from the past. 2 are from the future. They see a vision of naked Willow and a snake woman. In the next scene Robin has appeared. Her and Willow are watching the scene. Willow says "I was never naughty here" in the same way if you were watching a film with somebody, and you'd already seen it, you might say "watch what happens here". She then asks, "Has this happened yet?" She's still talking about the last scene we saw - Willow and the Snakelady. That's the simple, reasonable explanation. That's the one I'm sticking to.
Hah, bet you though you had me there for a minute, didn't you, you tricky vixen you. Getting my brain all muddled up with complex possibilities...:fighting1 😉