Discussion of 8.13 "Wolves at the Gate # 2" 04/02/08 (Dark Horse)

Blondie Bear said:
See, I don't think so. I think that they were friends for so long before Willow "realized" she was gay that it put Buffy in an area of her brain that would never imagine that kind of thing. Just because she's gay doesn't mean she's constantly thinking about sex, or that she thinks about sex with every woman she meets any more than heterosexual people do.
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Oh, I agree. And since pretty much every heterosexual person I know (other than the ones who refuse to think about sex at all (because it's duurty)) will have at least a passing curiosity at some time or other about even their closest friends of the opposite sex...?
 
Come on, you know it was all in god cheer when Willow asked about Buffy's "shoe-sale noise". 🙂 I could so imagine Alyson saying those lines, Willow abruptly asking what was it like having sex with Buffy is just really funny.
 
I'd hate it if the vamps succeeded in de-Slayerising a lot of Slayers. That would just totally undermine the importance of Chosen.
 
I don't really think she can. Not by this spell, anyway, for this spell's based on the Scythe, and therefore Willow's spell with it. Buffy (and Faith) was already a Slayer at this time, so Willow's spell did not affect her. I think what the Japanese guys are doing is to reverse Willow's spell, deactivating the new-born Slayers. So, I believe Buffy's out of the woods... at least, with this spell.
 
Allycat said:
I'd hate it if the vamps succeeded in de-Slayerising a lot of Slayers. That would just totally undermine the importance of Chosen.
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Yeah it would be a bit of a bummer. I'm starting like all the new slayers. At the same time everything wraps up so nicely as far as where they seem to be going with the season. I could see it happening.
 
Heh, with the comics I don't want to do so much guessing and theorising about the main plot and I also try to avoid major spoilers. How the vampires' weapon plot turns out is anybody's guess at this point
 
Karl said:
How the vampires' weapon plot turns out is anybody's guess at this point
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That's true, and myself being a member of "anybody", I'm going to take a wild, stab, guess that says I think the vampires will succeed. All the young slayers will lose their slayer powers. I'll be happy to be wrong though. 🙂
 
I wouldn't mind if the slayers lost their powers. It'd be good for the story. I don't think Buffy would lose her powers though, her powers are from a different source, not the scythe. I don't think we'll see a big confrontation untill the Japanese vamps are defrocked of their magical dracula-like powers, enter Willow.
 
nerd4hire
nerd4hire
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I still don't get this Dracula thing and the fact that Xander is friends with him. I mean Xander didn't like Angel and Spike even when they had souls, but yet Dracula doesn't have a soul and yet their friends? That doesn't make too much sense to me and on top of that again Dracula doesn't have a soul so how exactly is he friends with Xander, hell I might even suspect they had sex once or twice. Cause I mean hey we all know that Angel and Spike had sex at least once. (Which is something I'd definitely love to see or read more about) I would suspect that Angelus was the top and Spike was the bottom
 
CharmedSlayer85 said:
I still don't get this Dracula thing and the fact that Xander is friends with him. I mean Xander didn't like Angel and Spike even when they had souls, but yet Dracula doesn't have a soul and yet their friends? That doesn't make too much sense to me and on top of that again Dracula doesn't have a soul so how exactly is he friends with Xander, hell I might even suspect they had sex once or twice. Cause I mean hey we all know that Angel and Spike had sex at least once. (Which is something I'd definitely love to see or read more about) I would suspect that Angelus was the top and Spike was the bottom
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Without getting into the argument about whether a vampire can or cannot feel any degree of affection, Xander might have achieved a degree of friendship with Dracula simply because they were in close association for a year, the equivalent of two enemies marooned on a desert island together and depending on each other to survive. Dracula would depend on xander to handle whatever affairs came up around Castle Dracula during the daytime, and Xander depended on Drac to keep him supplied with fresh spiders, grubs, and cock roaches.
 
I don't have an answer, but maybe it would be helpful to put all we know about the relationship in a single spot.

Xander is a bit of a culture nerd, and Dracula is after all Dracula.

We don't know the totality of the thrall effect Dracula has over Xander, but Xander continued to correspond with Dracula after Season 5 via letters when he was no longer under Dracula's thrall, and didn't have to.

Andrew implies Xander getting connected with Dracula again after season 7 was Xander's choice, and had something to do with how he was dealing with the death of Anya.

Andrew also refers to Xander and Dracula as "fast friends", whatever that means.

Xander taught Dracula how to ride a motorcycle.

Dracula offers a sneaky smile when Xander implies a connection he has to Renee. Is he going to take pleasure out of destroying it?

In Antique we learn Dracula appears to be going through some sort of existential crisis having to do with the problem of how his vanity conflicts with the miniscule nature of his place in the universe. The immortality thing is a bug, along with his old age, and feelings of being alone. For some reason Xander appears to alleviate these dark doubts.
 
white avenger
white avenger
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CharmedSlayer85 said:
I mean hey we all know that Angel and Spike had sex at least once. (Which is something I'd definitely love to see or read more about) I would suspect that Angelus was the top and Spike was the bottom
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Huh, what?! Gosh I'd like to hear more about that!

And I totally agree : XanDrac has definitely happened. I don't get either why Xander is all so friendly with Dracula but was so mean to Angel and Soul-Spike. Seriously. The only explanation would be that old good Buffy attraction, and therefore his jealousy... I also think the thrall that Dracula has upon Xander leaves Xand something for Dracula, and explains why he's come to him. And in this strange master/slave relationship, Xander found some pleasure because it was after Anya's death and he could think about something else, not be surrounded by the same people who would remind him of her death, etc. Dracula was happy not to be alone anymore and to have a connexion with the modern world. And so some kind of friendship began to link them both.

Five - what do you think of "XanDrac" ?
 
CharmedSlayer85 said:
Cause I mean hey we all know that Angel and Spike had sex at least once. (Which is something I'd definitely love to see or read more about) I would suspect that Angelus was the top and Spike was the bottom
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I read an article once where it was suggested that Angel would "almost certainly" have sexually assaulted Spike as a method of reinforcing his role of dominance over Spike just as he did his women, but as far as KNOWING that the two had sex is certainly news to me. As far as I know, Joss hasn't ever said anything about it.
 
white avenger said:
I read an article once where it was suggested that Angel would "almost certainly" have sexually assaulted Spike as a method of reinforcing his role of dominance over Spike just as he did his women, but as far as KNOWING that the two had sex is certainly news to me. As far as I know, Joss hasn't ever said anything about it.
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Joss has said something along the lines of "Are we thinking they've never...? C'mon i mean they've been around along time, and they're both open minded guys"

And Spike did mention something about him and Angel in Season 5 of Angel
 
white avenger
white avenger
I can see Angel forcing William. That might even be the real reason why Spike hates Angel so. I just can't visualize any sort of romantic interlude.
RogueHunter said:
I wonder if Buffy will be de'slayerized.
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Nah. They're pretty clear the problem is with the Scythe-Slayer spell specifically. Anyway, powerless Buffy = boring.

If it were to somehow happen it would be brief would be my wager.
 
Huh, what?! Gosh I'd like to hear more about that!
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From Power Play (Angel, season five, episode 21):

ILLYRIA: You'll have proof soon enough. A corrupted ruler on such a path sees treachery and betrayal all around him. He cannot suffer intimates and will eventually turn against them.

SPIKE: Guess I don't have to worry about that, 'cause Angel and me have never been intimate. Except that one...
 
white avenger said:
I read an article once where it was suggested that Angel would "almost certainly" have sexually assaulted Spike as a method of reinforcing his role of dominance over Spike just as he did his women, but as far as KNOWING that the two had sex is certainly news to me. As far as I know, Joss hasn't ever said anything about it.
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Yeah in season five of Angel during I believe the episode was Powerplay Spike said "Angel and I have never been intimate, except that one time." And Joss said on the commentary that "these two are immortals and into all kinds of deviants and you mean to tell me that they've never....you know. They're both very open minded guys, that's all I'm saying" or something like that.
 
Five said:
I don't get either why Xander is all so friendly with Dracula but was so mean to Angel and Soul-Spike?
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Xander's attitude towards Souled Spike changed after Spike started living with Xander. Xander became far more understanding to Spike and Buffy's relationship with him. I'd argue that after Selfless, Xander's attitude towards demons changed from complete dislike to being okay with them. There were many events where Xander showed great understanding to Spike, such as ignoring Anya's question about killing Spike and patting Spike on the shoulder for support.

To explain Xander and Dracula, I advise you all to read this short fic:

StephenT - (Fic) Dead Letter
 
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