Discussion of 8.34 "Twilight Part 3" - Released 4/07/10 (Dark Horse)

[Kean]

I think the real Big Bad of season 8 will not be Twilight, or the Universe, but Destiny. The idea that Buffy's life isn't hers to live, but that she has to spend it dancing on the strings of someone or something else's agenda.

This is the thing that will finally get her to say "No more."

Those two things seem intrinsically linked together though. Destiny, for all intents and purposes, is the Universe's plan.

I agree though, when Buffy pushes back, and she will push back, it will be a end game sort of thing.

Whatever we know about this verse as it stands will be turned on its head. Effectively, this verse will be ended.

---------- Post added at 12:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:37 AM ----------

Superstar agrees: LAMO! Now who's being cryptic? Evil! I like it. Destiny, thy name is...

Yeah well now that you planted the ideas in my head I can't unsee them! lol

 

[Tranquillity]

Interview with Brad meltzer about this issue:

I like this bit (sorry I couldn't resist - it matches my banner 🙂):

We're wrapping with page 22, because of that middle panel..."Soon."

Yeah. [Laughs] There's really nothing left to say. It's in the caption box.

Well, when the news of Angel hit, that was one of the first questions asked: "What about Spike?" But we know now that all of the pieces are on the board for Joss, and he will use them as he likes.

And listen, I think people forget that the things that they like best are sometimes, shockingly, also the things that we like best as writers. The thing I appreciate the most about this season as a whole "“ and it's true over every season of "Buffy" "“ by the time you got to the end, all the big pieces were on the board. I'm never going to say how soon "Soon" is or how far "Soon" is, but "Soon" is a pretty damn good way to say it.

for more: BEHIND BUFFY SEASON 8: - Comic Book Resources

 

[AndrewCrossett]

Meltzer's final comment in that interview, that next issue will get into philosophical questions, makes me think this is where the Destiny vs. Free Will battle begins that will define the rest of this season.

Buffy's motto will be: "I make the destiny, the destiny does not make me."

 

[Buffyverse Fan]

Meltzer's final comment in that interview, that next issue will get into philosophical questions, makes me think this is where the Destiny vs. Free Will battle begins that will define the rest of this season.

Buffy's motto will be: "I make the destiny, the destiny does not make me."

But what about Angel?!? That's been his motto since his earliest days as a hero! What the f#$% happened to him?!?

Lindsey: "Yeah. I had a crisis - and I want to thank you for your help with that - but I see things more clearly now."

Angel: "You don't see anything. You don't know what faith is."

Lindsey holds up the scroll: "I see that what happened here tonight was foretold - that doesn't bode well for you. - I see that you are either the one with the power - or you're powerless."

Angel: "Uh-huh. You see what I'm gonna do to you if you don't give me that scroll?"

Lindsey: "You need the words of Anatole to cure your friend. She's your connection to the Powers That Be. And since it is foretold that we sever all your connections (holds the scroll into the flames burning in the urn beside him) well..."
Angel throws the scythe, cutting off Lindsey's hand at the wrist. Lindsey drops the cross and screams as he drops to the ground. He is cradling his bleeding stump against his chest, as Angel goes to retrieve the scroll from the floor beside him.

Angel: "Don't believe everything you're foretold."

That Angel wouldn't buy into any ominous bugaboo. And that Angel certainly wouldn't desecrate the memories of Cordy & Doyle by believing this garbage. Heck, his career was built on making sure half of TPTB's visions never came to pass!

 

[Tranquillity]

Angel is Destiny's Bitch. He's Mr. Shanshu, he is intrinsicly linked to the idea of destiny and of adhering to that pre-determined destination no matter how much he tries to deny it. Buffy, on the other hand, accepts destiny to an extent (well she has to, she is the 'Chosen one' afterall), but then she does it her way (as in having a family and friends, beating death, empowering lots of slayers etc...)

 

[Buffyverse Fan]

Angel is Destiny's Bitch. He's Mr. Shanshu, he is intrinsicly linked to the idea of destiny and of adhering to that pre-determined destination no matter how much he tries to deny it. Buffy, on the other hand, accepts destiny to an extent (well she has to, she is the 'Chosen one' afterall), but then she does it her way (as in having a family and friends, beating death, empowering lots of slayers etc...)

Angel, W&H, TPTB, and Joss treat the Shanshu Prophecy like a Gift Certificate, not destiny. I think it's stupid, but it's also true. You can't sign away destiny.
Destiny doesn't need to be filed in the right cabinet.
The Shanshu apparently falls into both of those categories.

The ominous prophecies Angel never bought. It was foretold that Vocah would kill Cordy & Wes. Angel hacked Vocah into pieces instead.

It was foretold that a demon cult would rip Darla apart and raise Connor as their messiah. Angel hacked them up and blew them up.

Gunn was destined to have his soul eaten by a Soul Sucker, Angel cut of his head instead.

It was foretold that the world would end while two Grad Students were having orgasms, Angel hacked up the cult and broke the machine instead.

 

[Tome]

I just got the comic! It's pretty surprising to say the least, lol. I'm curious on what will happen next. It all seems a bit weird to me though.

By the way if anyone didn't get it yet and wanna have a look, PM me =P

 

[sosa lola]

Review #34

Okay, so this issue discussed the real mythology behind the Slayer/Vampire relationship, the greatest apocalypse of all, which… I'm not gonna focus on. I've never been interested in the big picture, the reason I watched the show and read the comic is the characters. I care about them, their relationships with each other, their suffering and happiness, and their progression and regression.

So, I'll leave the complicated talk to its people, and focus on the little details, which I've loved.

Giles' concern over Faith's wellbeing was so touching and sad at the same time. The sad part is that now he seems closer to her than Buffy, and I've always loved the Buffy/Giles relationship which is never the same since Lies My Parents Told Me.

The Warren/Andrew nerd fight. I love how it shows that Andrew grew out of his Warren worship, and right now, he dislikes him a great deal.

I've noticed how Xander and Dawn are the voice of the fans –Xander has always been the guy who objects, who gives another opinion, be it right or wrong, and he's still doing the same thing.

I'm surprised to hear fans claiming that S8 doesn't have a wise-cracking, truth-telling, sarcastic character. Dawn fills that role perfectly for some time now.

I could never say it enough. Xander wanting to help Buffy is one of the most endearing aspects of his character, he's always thinking about helping her when danger occurs. I also love how he says screw the magicks and then orders Willow to do a spell. Hee.

I laughed out loud at Willow's "Xander, I don't think you want to see this." Willow is clearly talking from memory; actually this issue does bring me back to the earlier seasons, Willow thinking that Xander won't like the sight of Buffy and Angel together, and on the other hand, Willow claiming that Angel (and Spike) is Buffy's truest loves. Wasn't Willow Buffy's little cheerleader in high school? She always romanticized the Buffy/Angel relationship.

I can't make my mind over Buffy and Angel's state of mind. Are they in full control of their actions or are they possessed by a greater force? What I do see though is them enjoying the hell out of each other. The sex, their feelings, it all looks real to me.

Buffy crushing the wall with her hand reminds me of when she crushed the pewter pitcher in Graduation Part Two. Nice touch.

I LOVE Faith's rage with Giles, of all the characters, she's the one who'd feel most betrayed by him; he'd been by her side the whole season, travelling to Germany and going around the world, and he said NOTHING. Poor Faith, will she ever find someone that will never hurt her?

The panel with all the characters staring at Giles, demanding an explanation is SO made of win! Willow's betrayed and sad expression and the way she hugs herself helplessly. Xander and Faith's angry expressions. Dawn's silent and sad features. Say what you want about Jeanty, but this guy is the only one who makes me connect with their characters.


While I do like a fair take on the Watchers' Council, I didn't take issue over the 1680s watchers taking their lives out of fear. This apocalypse appears to be the biggest the Scoobies ever faced yet. Besides, the 1680s watchers are the same as the 1999s watchers –different times, different people. Who's to say that all Slayers were brave and strong? I bet some were so cowardly and weak.

Xander does have a point when he said that nothing is going to be weird when they've faced plenty of supernatural, out-there creatures in the past. Nothing has changed.


Satsu's reaction made me sympathize with her. I don't think it's much to do with Buffy choosing someone else as the person himself. Buffy is having sex with the guy who'd been torturing them, killing Slayers and spreading hate, not to mention the guy who sent the kitty monsters who almost caused Satsu her life.

Satsu's reaction and Andrew's "Please don't tell me that was them. It's ruining everything for me," do echo the aggravated Spuffy and Bander shippers as well as the other fans who are afraid they're losing Buffy, the character, and Angel, the character, to this new plot twist.

Giles' inability to spill it all out did frustrate me, I was with Xander when he shook him to talk. But I can understand Giles' hesitation.

Haha, loved Xander and Willow's expressions as Warren's declaration that he doesn't like them; reminds me of Spike.

Speaking of Spike, I really love how Jeanty drew him, and hey, he and Buffy will be fighting side by side again against something really huge –could it be the real Twilight?

"Oh, goddess" it used to bug me in the past when fans write Willow saying it in fanfic; because on the show I don't remember her ever saying goddess, guess it's canon now.

The Slayer/Vampire connection is interesting, but I don't like the idea of Buffy's attraction to Angel and Spike to be a result of destiny or outer force. Actually, it makes her feelings for both Riley and Xander more real, she loved them despite that connection.

So, Giles knew that Buffy was meant to be the god all along? And he was trying to find a way to kill her? Again, so sad, yet still in character.

 

[Buffyverse Fan]

ANGEL (05x20)
We're heroes. We don't need any higher power.
We make our own fate.
We don't need anybody cleaning up our mess. You know, we're champions!

 

[Buffy4ever2k10]

I didn´t lost hope just yet but i guess all this madness will make sense after the last issue. I´m dying to see the cover of the 36 issue. I expect something so horrible that we have to assume Joss went insane writing this season. 🙂

I like to speculate and nothing has changed about my feelings about the whole Buffyverse but season 8 is to strange even for a crazy guy like me. I´ll be patient and just wait how it will plays out.

However if anything really bad happens to Buffy,Spike or Xander i´m done with the comics. It´s already messed up but i can tolerate it. For now.

I guess Buffy will at some time snap out of it and do the right thing and Spike will help her to fight the Twilight thingy. Fighting the universe could a little bit difficult even for a goddess. 🙂

The question is will Buffy lose all her power if she decides to fight Twilight or is it something else that give her the power to become a goddess? I really doubt she can fight Twilight without some mystically force behind her and finishing invincible Angel off will be a whole another story.

Sorry for all the Angel fans but i think he joined the dark side willingly and knew exactly what he had to do. Even if it´s for the greater good i can´t see how Angel ever could redeem himself after becoming Twilight. I like his character in AtF and he is a really champion there but as Twilight/Angel he is just weak,pathetic and kinda lame. He sounds like a total lunatic.

It´s time to let us know what happens after NFA in this universe because if L.A. is still in hell how could Spike escape to help Buffy? He fought his own battles at this time and surely didn´t know what was going on in the outside world.

Joss should make at least some kind of a connection with the AtF universe.

I don´t want to see Spike showing up out of nowhere and just fights with Buffy the big bad. Joss can´t pretend nothing important happend after NFA.

 

[Buffyverse Fan]

However if anything really bad happens to Buffy,Spike or Xander i´m done with the comics. It´s already messed up but i can tolerate it. For now.

I find it extremely strange that Spike hasn't tried to dust Angel who is currently trying to destroy the Earth as we know it. Even back when Spike was evil he helped Buffy take Angelus & Dru down to save the World. Are we supposed to believe that Champion!Spike wouldn't be doing the same?

Sorry for all the Angel fans but i think he joined the dark side willingly and knew exactly what he had to do. Even if it´s for the greater good i can´t see how Angel ever could redeem himself after becoming Twilight. I like his character in AtF and he is a really champion there but as Twilight/Angel he is just weak,pathetic and kinda lame. He sounds like a total lunatic.

I don't see how any Angel fan could think he's still a Champion if things truly are as they appear. Joss has ruined Angel if he's made him forget what he learned back in S1 "Don't believe everything you're foretold" or in the third to last episode of the franchise "We're heroes. We don't need any higher power. We make our own fate."

It´s time to let us know what happens after NFA in this universe because if L.A. is still in hell how could Spike escape to help Buffy? He fought his own battles at this time and surely didn´t know what was going on in the outside world.

After the Fall is canon to Season Eight. This is undisputed by Joss (as he wrote them both, and mapped out the core storyline of AtF back in 2003).

 

[white avenger]

I find it extremely strange that Spike hasn't tried to dust Angel who is currently trying to destroy the Earth as we know it. Even back when Spike was evil he helped Buffy take Angelus & Dru down to save the World. Are we supposed to believe that Champion!Spike wouldn't be doing the same?

Don't sell Spike short. For all we know, he might have been tranqued and caged again, just like when the Initiative first captured him. Next issue or the one after, he could make his escape and come charging in like the U S Cavalry, just in time to save the day. Only time will tell.

 

[Superstar]

Yeah well now that you planted the ideas in my head I can't unsee them! lol

You chose to take the Red Pill.
The rabbit-hole is what you get Alice.
I am merely the Cheshire Cat. :cat2:

 

[Mumrik]

Disclaimer: I only read up to page six of the discussion because I needed to get my thoughts down NOW, so I don't know what may have been said already.


Just got the issue, read it - and, wow. That was lots of sex. Aside from that, I wonder, that if Buffy (Slayer; strength from a demonic source and would thus probably count as part-demon) and Angel (Vampire, a demonic source inside a human host) are supposed to create a new species, is Connor (part-demon child of two vampires) maybe the first of that species OR maybe he's related to it like Neanderthals are to modern humans and Turok-Han to modern vampires? I know Connor's creation was explained as a ploy to get Jasmine into the world but I wonder if there's something else to it.
Because this is something else that sets Angel apart from Spike in a different way, not only because he is Buffy's soulmate. He's already different from other vampires because he was able to create life in un-death.

Angel himself doesn't seem to have a lot to say right now, I think he's become the vessel for Twilight, which, I believe, is not a person, PTB, God or place, but more of a concept. I actually see parallels to the "Götterdämmerung", which translates to "Twilight of the Gods" and is a German mistranslation of "Ragnarök" which is basically the tale of the end of the Gods in Norse mythology. So maybe this is where the name of Twilight for this similar concept might come from. Because what we seem to have here could be the "Twilight of Mankind", with the dawn of a new species and the return of hordes of demons. It would also fit to where they seem to have woken up in the end - a brave new world.

This issue and the universe urging B/A on with creating chaos all over the globe, also made me think of Fray's world. Judging from the panel of Mel in the issue, it still exists. The mutations in her time stem from the blotting of the sun - probably more or less Twangel's and Buffy's fault.

I think that Faith - who seems to have gotten some super super powers of her own (instant healing as opposed to normal Slayer healing) - and Spike are going to have some significance - maybe to stabilize the pure passion of B/A and get them back on the ground (metaphorically and literally), because as much as I enjoyed this issue, the Slayerlore and the concept, it ain't looking good for the world.

And I think that the rest of the Slayers are done for. OR, like Connor, they could become the precursors for that new race, since, in a way, they already are Buffy's (and Willow's) creation.

The way I see it, their job now is to reverse all of that/stop this from happening, banish the demons, so we have the missing link to Fray's crapsack world, which is where all of this seems to be going.

 

[Willow13]

Sorry for all the Angel fans but i think he joined the dark side willingly and knew exactly what he had to do. Even if it´s for the greater good i can´t see how Angel ever could redeem himself after becoming Twilight. I like his character in AtF and he is a really champion there but as Twilight/Angel he is just weak,pathetic and kinda lame. He sounds like a total lunatic.

My first post. I'm a big fan of Angel, my favorite vampire ever, and BA, but I've got say... kick his ass!

I think it all started with S5 since the beginning of it he is not the same man we knew up to that point.

His actions took Fred's life because if he had not gone there, she would not be contaminated by Illyria (although, I love the character). Then, the whole thing with W&H after Cordelia's vision. I'll be forever distrustful of that vision because it sent Angel spiraling out of control, which ended up with him killing Drogyn (an innocent) and sending LA to hell with him (more innocents). Granted it all was reversed by his death... but it didn't erase his huge part in it... and this time he can't throw it at Angelus. It is his hands that are polluted by innocent blood... let alone the 206 girls in this issue.

These are things that the Angel S1-S3 on Buffy and S1-S2 of ATS would never do. Even in his crazy state in S3 he stopped the world to end (the episode with the guy who wanted to freeze time).

He is a crazy lunatic... and if nothing is controlling him and Buffy... Buffy should be committed to the mental ward of some hospital because only someone with mental problems would jump in the pants of a known assassin.

I really hope he will have his ass royally kicked by someone... I'd love to see Willow do it!

********************************

I don't think Angel lost that much control over himself. When he was fighting Faith in the I33, he seemed too much concerned for her well being. He called her twice (Faith...? Come on, you're stronger than that. Faith...?). Without voices, we can't really say, but his hesitation after he beat her, asking her to get up and calling her twice waiting for some answer seems to me concern. So, he knows what he is doing!

Also, he seemed too happy in Twilight. At first both he and Buffy wondered about where they were, but Angel got the big picture and tatata.. it's twilight! This doesn't seem the action of a person who killed 206 women and was concerned about anything else.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

Wilder Midlnight: The heart does not listen to reason. You're right, in theory, it does make the "most sense" for Bander to end up together; Xander's always been there for her. He's her rock, her best friend, and I believe he'll never leave her. He'll stand by her until his dying day. All sounds great, yeah? One issue; she doesn't love him. She loves Angel. Always has, always will. Even I can accept that at this point. A hero deserves to be with a hero. This is why I ship Spuffy... for me, they fit together. Balance each other out. Compliment each other.

Now that we know that Buffy is fated to be with Angel, but as a result of their love, they will destroy the universe and everything in it - what now? Will Buffy be forced to choose yet again between her mission and who she loves? She killed Angel to save the world. She allowed Spike to burn to save the world. Will she have to give up Angel yet again? I don't know if she could. She's already had to give up so much...

Don't you want to be happy?

I agree, obviously, about not wanting Buffy to end up with Angel. At this point, as Tranquility said, her love for Angel is putting her friends in danger and threatening her duty.

Interesting about the comic you mentioned. I wonder if that's a conscious reference? Although I do like the idea of two superhuman, special beings ushering out the new evolution of the race, combined and having an extraordinary power - I don't like the idea that they are under the influence of "Twilight" yet again being jerked around on a puppet string. *sighs*

I want our heroes to act on their own terms.

Tranquility - I was also wondering about Faith. I think she is the only Slayer now. Buffy has obviously evolved beyond that - whatever she is - a God, a higher being - it's clear she is no longer the Slayer and her role is changing. How do I feel about this? I don't know...

BEG - All Faith says regarding her newly-acquired powers is that her wounds are instantly gone, and it happens right after Buffy and Angel start doing it, so the implication is that the return of her powers and their coital "bliss" is connected.

Buffyverse Fan - I agree - this issue felt like a fan fic. The sex between them was far more blatant then anything we ever saw between S and B in S6. With S and B everything was implied, yet in this issue, we get B/A obviously having sex multiple times, and obviously engaging in oral sex. Ugh.

I agree about Satsu. She acted childish. When Buffy sees Spike and Anya on Willow's computer, she doesn't react like that. Arguably, these two situations are comparable.

I also agree about the disservice to the characters.

Superman, and even a rebel like Batman are working towards a world that doesn't need them. They don't want the world to come over to their lifestyle, they think it sucks to live as they do, consumed with battles and violence.

Agreed. I can only imagine how Buffy will react when she finds out that her and Angel are the "chosen race", destined to bring in a new evolution of beings and that as a result of this, all humans will die. I can't see her doing the happy dance of joy.

Buffy4ever: Well, to give Buffy some credit; at this point, she doesn't know that her space-screwing with Angel is causing the world to heat up and self-destruct.

You're wrong about Giles; he does care; he admits to Faith that he was searching for a totem to stop Angel and Buffy with if it came to that, but there was no indication he felt anything but bad about it.

Yet...I believe that Giles could kill Buffy if he had too... if he even could. To save himself and the human race? Yes, I think so.

I agree about S/B...they were best fighting side by side, as allies.

I think the "three days ago" is Willow....dying. Her hair looks red.

And yes, it get me all emotional, too. 🙁

Frankie, agreed! damage control is definitely in order!

LyteHouse: I know, right! Like I said, this is way more graphic then Spuffy ever was!

BEG has a point; Buffy has proven time and time again, when it comes to love, she's not known for making the most sound choices. She is only human emotionally. That's how we can relate to her.

MinwaraYana: I agree. Saying they're destined is convenient, but it makes sense. It explains how Angel fell in love with her at first sight, and how she admitted she loved in as early on as "Angel" when she hardly knew him.

WA; you're right, but we know now that Spike will be showing up. Will he have a main role? No, probably not. But he will play a part.

Andrew, good explanation. They are under the "urging" or influence of the Universe at this point. So, you think Buffy is completely out of her mind? As in, she's being completely influenced? I didn't interpret it that way. But I agree with your idea of how this will end, with the two deciding that they can't be together without the world falling apart. Yet, have we not seen this before? They can't be together because of whatever, blah, blah...ugh. I'm so sick of Bangel!

Destiny as the Big Bad... *nods* I like it! Destiny Vs. Freewill...this makes sense, as it's always been an issue in the 'verse; Spike is love's bitch, Angel is Destiny's Bitch, Buffy is the Universe's Bitch....

Regarding Spike's upcoming crossover: I swear to GOD, if everything Spike does when he comes in isn't completely in character, I am denouncing the comics.

Agree, lolasosa. I too believe that it would be in character for Giles to attempt to kill Buffy. In his defense, though, he does say that the totem would "stop" them - he doesn't actually use the world "kill" although it is implied.

....My take?

Angel is no longer a Champion. It's clear his actions are no longer his own. He no longer makes "his"own fate." A Hero falls. That's the irony; Angel and Buffy had fought their whole lives to avoid and cheat fate, but they can't. The Universe has a plan for them.

This issue was, needless say, difficult for me to read. Everyone's comments have been really helpful, I was pretty confused! So much happened in this issue.

How can I not discuss the graphic SEX in this issue? MY GOD. Overkill much? On of the things I always loved so much about this show was the metaphor and the subtle nature of the storytelling. Well, here you are kids, right in your face: BUFFY AND ANGEL ARE HAVING SEX IN CASE YOU MISSED IT. In the ruins? With monkey's watching? WTF? Flying in SPACE!?

I find it very hard to believe that Buffy is in her right mind in this issue. Or she would be concerned about the curse. Angel doesn't tell her that its no longer an issue. As far as she knows, the threat of Angelus re-emerging still exists...what, all the sudden she doesn't care? Unlikely.

My little Spike-loving heart is absolutely delighted to see that Spike will be back, and that him and Buffy will be doing what they do best, again - fighting side by side. Although I could care less about Willow, I'm intrigued by the panel "THREE DAYS AGO." ...will Willow die? The shock on her face confirms my suspicion. Thoughts on this?

Think of Buffy's truest loves. Vampires - humans infected by demons.

Right on! It's nice to see Spuffy respected, and her love for him acknowledged. If Joss' earlier comment regarding whether or not Buffy loved Spike wasn't enough to convince them, this clearly stats that in canon, Buffy did love Spike - truly.

I like the idea of Buffy being so special that she was able to make a loving connection with not only one, but two vampires. It just supports how extraordinary she really is. 🙂

I think we can assume that Buffy is indeed a God, as that's what Giles implies.

So, Twilight is a place? Like, what, a chocolate-factory, Eden fantasy land? UGH. Could this story get any worse? Angel makes it sound like Buffy and Angel are being rewarded with it; "and now it's ours."
Now they can be together forever in paradise, while her friends die on Earth? Hardly.

I can't see how Bangel shippers can be happy about the reunion if, as a result, it brings about the destruction of mankind.

 

[citiegal17]

My first post. I'm a big fan of Angel, my favorite vampire ever, and BA, but I've got say... kick his ass!

I think it all started with S5 since the beginning of it he is not the same man we knew up to that point.

His actions took Fred's life because if he had not gone there, she would not be contaminated by Illyria (although, I love the character). Then, the whole thing with W&H after Cordelia's vision. I'll be forever distrustful of that vision because it sent Angel spiraling out of control, which ended up with him killing Drogyn (an innocent) and sending LA to hell with him (more innocents). Granted it all was reversed by his death... but it didn't erase his huge part in it... and this time he can't throw it at Angelus. It is his hands that are polluted by innocent blood... let alone the 206 girls in this issue.

These are things that the Angel S1-S3 on Buffy and S1-S2 of ATS would never do. Even in his crazy state in S3 he stopped the world to end (the episode with the guy who wanted to freeze time).

He is a crazy lunatic... and if nothing is controlling him and Buffy... Buffy should be committed to the mental ward of some hospital because only someone with mental problems would jump in the pants of a known assassin.

I really hope he will have his ass royally kicked by someone... I'd love to see Willow do it!

********************************

I don't think Angel lost that much control over himself. When he was fighting Faith in the I33, he seemed too much concerned for her well being. He called her twice (Faith...? Come on, you're stronger than that. Faith...?). Without voices, we can't really say, but his hesitation after he beat her, asking her to get up and calling her twice waiting for some answer seems to me concern. So, he knows what he is doing!

Also, he seemed too happy in Twilight. At first both he and Buffy wondered about where they were, but Angel got the big picture and tatata.. it's twilight! This doesn't seem the action of a person who killed 206 women and was concerned about anything else.

Agrees, nothing in this in issue indicates that Angel is really possesed, and not to mention the fact his character was tainted with innocent blood long before this Twilight deal.

---------- Post added at 04:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:25 PM ----------

Something just occured to me about the comment that he makes when he says about their mortals and that they all eventually die. Well if you look back at ATS season 5, there actually one event in which there is a similiar occurence. When Fred died(which I still think is really mostly his fault), he treated Wesley like crap, he didn't show as much compassion to Wesley as he should have. He treated her death much too lightly in that case, which is one of the reasons why I stopped liking him a long time ago. Honestly I think he should known that making deals with evil will never go well, and just because he wanted to help his son does not make it okay for him, to endanger his friends.

 

[Buffy4ever2k10]

You're wrong about Giles; he does care; he admits to Faith that he was searching for a totem to stop Angel and Buffy with if it came to that, but there was no indication he felt anything but bad about it.

I know he cares but he is often to willingly to kill somebody off just for the greater good. Angel and Spike are the best examples. I got so pissed and angry when he tried to get rid of Spike through Wood. Why he couldn´t do it himself? I can´t help myself but i like Wesley more then Giles.

I think the "three days ago" is Willow....dying. Her hair looks red.

I looked closley at all their clothes at this time and i think it really could be Dawn,Willow or even Amy. I want to see Amy or Warren die. They deserve it.

Regarding Spike's upcoming crossover: I swear to GOD, if everything Spike does when he comes in isn't completely in character, I am denouncing the comics.

I´m right there with you.

So, Twilight is a place? Like, what, a chocolate-factory, Eden fantasy land? UGH. Could this story get any worse? Angel makes it sound like Buffy and Angel are being rewarded with it; "and now it's ours."
Now they can be together forever in paradise, while her friends die on Earth? Hardly.

I can't see how Bangel shippers can be happy about the reunion if, as a result, it brings about the destruction of mankind.

If it were Spike in the twilightzone(no pun intended) i would stop reading right now and throw the comic right into a blender. The point is we already saw Spuffy truly happy even when it were only for months. Bangel never had the chance to do what Spike was doing with her(i know about IWRY in Angel). Buffy made it clear that she misses the sex in the beginning of season 8 so she ended up with Satsu in her bedroom. I always thought making Buffy bicurious wouldn´t fit her character. At some point in the story i thought she would sleep with Xander but it never happend. I´m leaning towards Bander now because she deserves a man like him. I could live with that.

I´m looking forward to the next issue but i don´t really expect much answers to our questions and the cover of 37 is disturbing.

Maybe the cover of issue 36 will give some serious answers. I guess the cover will show a pregnant Buffy or a dead scoobie.

btw: I´m curious about the Riley one shot. This is bugging me for some time now but where the hell is Rileys wife?

 

[Buffyverse Fan]

Buffyverse Fan - I agree - this issue felt like a fan fic. The sex between them was far more blatant then anything we ever saw between S and B in S6. With S and B everything was implied, yet in this issue, we get B/A obviously having sex multiple times, and obviously engaging in oral sex. Ugh.

I agree about Satsu. She acted childish. When Buffy sees Spike and Anya on Willow's computer, she doesn't react like that. Arguably, these two situations are comparable.

I also agree about the disservice to the characters.

Agreed. I can only imagine how Buffy will react when she finds out that her and Angel are the "chosen race", destined to bring in a new evolution of beings and that as a result of this, all humans will die. I can't see her doing the happy dance of joy.

This actually might be a first. I've never heard of an American author writing a book where the "Champions" are carrying forward a more extreme version of Hitler's genocide/eugenics.

I don't know what Joss is thinking here, and it's not like an anticipation thing--on my part it's revulsion. If Angel is willingly participating in exterminating billions of humans, I just can't wait for Spike to dust him. And if things do go down remotely like this, I'm done with the Buffyverse.

I thought Buffy's lesbian tryst was completely out of character for someone who had trouble accepting her best friend was gay, but this really takes the cake with turning the world's Champion into the worst villain in history with little explanation.

 

[ToShanshuInLA]

The "three days ago" panel is Willow isn't it? It was a flashback to Willow getting her magic back in issue 31.