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Discussion of Buffy 12.04 - Released 9/19/18 (Dark Horse)

thetopher

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Sineya
But you can't do 5 more seasons, put Spuffy together, made them break-up and then give again hope to the Bangel/Spuffy even Fuffy fans... What the show needed is a definitive closure on that subject !

I think Bangel sounds hopeful enough at the end of this- although Angel is still a cursed vampire so he and Buffy still can't eat cookies together- but Spuffy seems well and truly done with.
After all Buffy and Spike just broke up 'off-screen' when there no external factors/pressures to keep them together. That means it was never going to work, at any point, because there was never the potential for a happy ending; canon has now basically stated that they just didn't work as a couple and never would long-term. They may even have loved each other by S11 but clearly there wasn't enough anything else there to sustain them.
I would feel a bit bad but hell, it seems that Spuffy got the vast majority of the fan-service in the comics so I think that's about enough.
 
Mrs Gordo
Mrs Gordo
Damn, I think I ghost wrote this.
K
katmobile
Again I'm going to get the comics to confirm this but I suspect Spuffy broke up due to Buffy having a shit I'm 30 what I am I doing with my life and craving normalcy. Angel can't give her that either. Joss wanted to make it about love and not ships.

TriBel

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Eh, I liked it... It was actually... happy? Like things actually turned out okay and no one important died? I did not see that coming.

For once - I agree with you. :D
I think Bangel sounds hopeful enough at the end of this- although Angel is still a cursed vampire so he and Buffy still can't eat cookies together- but Spuffy seems well and truly done with.

That's funny because I'd argue the exact opposite.
 
K
katmobile
I think wanted to show that love matters whenever it works out for you romantically or not. Both the vamps are important to her and her to them. I'm a Spuffy but I like the idea of platonic Bangel happening.

DagonSphere

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Well Buffy is definitely done now, the franchise ends, no more comics, all it left it's the reboot. so apparently the "new thing" is Buffy and Celibacy.

I thought Buffy just moved publishers? Why would they move to Boom if the comics were done? The question just is whether any new comics will continue to do the canon thing and build on seasons 8-12 or whether they start fresh or are set during the series.
 

Antho

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I thought Buffy just moved publishers? Why would they move to Boom if the comics were done? The question just is whether any new comics will continue to do the canon thing and build on seasons 8-12 or whether they start fresh or are set during the series.
I think they said season 12 was the last season of comics, last is the key word for me. Maybe they will do more comics but non canon and just for money. That doesn’t change anything for me since I never consider the comics canon.
 

DagonSphere

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I think they said season 12 was the last season of comics, last is the key word for me. Maybe they will do more comics but non canon and just for money. That doesn’t change anything for me since I never consider the comics canon.

There will be more, but looks like they're doing a new highschool series with the old characters set in our time now, if you look at their promo:

The license for comics based on the Joss Whedon-created franchise previously belonged to Dark Horse Comics and now, after 20 years, it will be moving to a new comic publisher for the first time. BOOM! has plans to release new Buffy monthly comic series, limited series, graphic novels, and more in partnership with 20th Century Fox Consumer Products.

BuffyVampireSlayer_Announcement-720x1106.jpg
 

Stanger406

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Was anyone else bothered by the fact that there was a HUGE retcon saying there have been male slayers?

Also, I was bothered by the fact that Illyria was mourned while Fred was not? I'm guessing Fred had some say in the decision, but no one mentioned her.

Overall I really like the season, but it ended with a fizzle. I wish more time had been spent with the main characters we love, and not focued on Fray (though I do like her too)
 

Mrs Gordo

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Black Thorn
Also, I was bothered by the fact that Illyria was mourned while Fred was not? I'm guessing Fred had some say in the decision, but no one mentioned her.

Yes! I'm so frustrated by this. It's not enough that Fred was killed off in AtS s5 to GET Illyria to begin in a grueling and horrendous way (hello melted organs hallowed out body!) but now she's shipped off to hell and no one not Angel or Spike even says "Hey what about Fred?" I have to headcanon so much here to keep my sanity because... blargh. Not cool.
 

white avenger

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Well Buffy is definitely done now, the franchise ends, no more comics, all it left it's the reboot. so apparently the "new thing" is Buffy and Celibacy.

I think they said season 12 was the last season of comics,

Maybe I'm a bit slow witted, but it seems to me that this is the end of the Buffyverse as we have known it so far, which I, for one, am not all that happy about. I'm not all that interested in a rerun of "Buffy's High School Hijinks" after all this time. We finally got her and all the gang into real, actual adulthood, and now we have to go back to the land of Archie, Jughead, Betty, and Veronica. Is Buffy going to fall into the swamp of perpetual adolescence, like Little Orphan Annie and Dobie Gillis? (Hopefully. neither of those references are too old for some of you younger whipper snappers here.) I just don't see the appeal of going back to that point again. Also, where does that leave characters like Dawn and Tara, and is Spike going to go back to being a soulless monster again?

"Buffy go Boom" may actually be rather prophetic, as far as I'm concerned.

Next thing you know, Buffy's going to be inducted into the Marvelverse, and we'll be seeing Buffy/Blade crossovers.
 

thetopher

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Well...this was a bit meh, if I'm honest. I mean, all the events were fine, few surprises, but the way it was written was a bit below par. Definitely the weakest issue of the four.

Um, spoilers for those who don't want to know about things that happened.

I liked the second half/wrap-up a bit more than the actual conclusion ot the final 'Reckoning'.

The climax:
Dawn opens a portal, Illyria pushes most of the demons through (after kissing a shocked-looking Angel) and says some cod Illyria lines. Fred gets dragged to hell as well apparently. Yay
Harth killed The Mayor. Boo, that sucked because it seemed like a waste. Whatever.
And Harth was killed by the slayer memories or whatever, the slayer power being antithetical to being a vampire. Something rather obvious when you think about it given that, despite some parallels, they are opposites and don't really compliment each other. Personally this

Afterwards Dawn sends Fray and sis back to their own time, but its much changed- for the better- and their greeted by a group of slayers who immediately sing their praises and then talk about family. It's clunky as hell but nice enough.

Xander and Dawn (with kid-Joyce) still have that nice family vibe.
Willow's re-commitment to her empowerment centre seems like a nice way to direct and focus her energies. Activism and Willow seem like a natural fit.

Buffy/Spike and Buffy/Angel have little bits of dialogue together but in each case it seems like nothing has changed in their respective relationship dynamic so it all feels rather flat with nothing new to say. Therefore I saw no real future for either coupling int he future, for reasons I've expressed elsewhere.
Spike will hang around Buffy because he has nothing better to do than hang around with an ex and Angel will brood a lot about Illyria and will perhaps 'wait for her'. Connor is never once mentioned.
Also no Shanshu for either of them, but nor do they end up in hell.

At least the Buffy/Faith dynamic felt genuinely fresh and reinvigorated; both of them becoming SFPD supernatural cops and 'patrolling' together in their squad car seems like a great way to continue Buffy's story. I'm sure some fic writer will have fun with it. Buffy is only thirty and still has her whole life ahead of her and deserves somebody new to spend it with.
#fuffyforever

The whole thing closes with a outdoor cook-out and Buffy having a callback her S8 inner monologue. That bit was nice.

That's funny because I'd argue the exact opposite.

Having read the issue neither Spuffy or Bangel seem in any way interesting to me. Spuffy is so played out at this point with no new avenues to explore and Angel is kinda broken as a character.
 
Angel6
Angel6
The comics really did not use Angel well at all. I’m glad their done, I really thought they sucked. I felt like they just dragged him through the dirt again and again.

The Bronze

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After messing up my preorder because of a card change I've only just read this now!

Can't help but feel disappointed. After a good build up this was really off the pace. It almost felt like they had a new writer on board to be honest.

I hated the last minute addition of male slayers (or men who'd stole the power possibly) and then saying it could work because men are rubbish. Is that really necessary?

The fight resolution was rubbish. Illyria saves the day and is mourned by all. Boring.

On the bright side a happy ending was nice if a little dull. Hated the shipper pandering again, Buffy's with no one but leaves just enough to be with any of them in the future. I'd have preferred the slayer line to have gone back down to one or two rather than hundreds.

Feels almost like the license announcement was made half way through writing this series so they phoned in the ending.
 

HelloIAmHawt

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Finally got the trade and finished these up. I will say, that as a long-time fan of the show the fan service for TV fans was decent ("Out. For. A. Walk. Bitch," or Buffy becoming a police officer ala S3, for example--or even just bringing The Mayor back--it all really played on my sentimentality, at the very least, and I liked it).

As someone who hasn't read all of Angel or really any of Fray, I presume that all of the those-world-specific bits, like having a full page of talking to ooglie water dude about the nature of their relationship, were very relevant to emotional arcs in those comics and I'm attempting to not feel like they're an intrusion because clearly the storyline was designed to combine these three series into one mega-end for Buffy and Angel (no idea if Fray is ending). That said, it did become a bit intrusive from a purely-BTVS comic POV, especially since it lead to us having little to no personal time with Willow, Xander, and Giles. If only I'd known, I would have lingered a bit longer in Season 11 to enjoy the dynamic. That said, as @Grace said earlier in this thread, I get it--there is no "core four" anymore--so maybe this was intentional. People change, relationships change, and Buffy has never shied away from that realism.

To toss in on the shipping debate, I think it's safe to assume that if Spike and Buffy broke up because they don't work in a calm world, that will probably transfer to Angel as well. It's likely that Buffy's desire to maybe even have kids came in on that, since she seems pretty into Dawn's baby, but I digress. I'd be super down for some Fuff, and may head-canon it, but who knows, maybe she'll fall for some rando at the academy/in the world at large.

So in the end here, we leave like we've really left every season. The gang has won, time to start their lives, for now. I guess this is a bit BIGGER than some other season ends (other than S7), as they were dealing with a reaction to their attempt to create a safer world (Willow's group), something they've not had the free time for before (I would say that the militarization of the slayers was more reactive than forward-thinking), and they defeated it (tbh a bunch of demons fighting because some women want to be empowered defo read as patriarchy smashing, which I don't mind). A bit anticlimactic, sure, but short of killing off a bunch of MCs (which I thought they would do) this is really how it has to be--you can't defeat evil with any level of finality, you can only kick it in the shins. If they had actually killed Buffy it would have made sense, but I don't know that I really need that sadness in my life. So, sorry, Illyria/Fred.

Oh, also, I really loved Faith trying to sacrifice herself. She has no ties and therefore less to lose and it made sense to offer and really highlights how much she's changed. I hope her and Buffy will be very happy together.

Sad to see these go, they were something I really looked forward to even when the quality was a bit lower than hoped. Like @The Ferg says above, I'd really love to see them expand the universe (and I think they'd get some solid cash out of it--****, people would probably read a series on Harmony and Clem--they'd be stupid to not try it out) and will probably be looking into the Fray series to fill this hole a bit.
 
Angel6
Angel6
I’m glad you enjoyed that aspect of it. I thought it was interesting, but I found the characterisation of Harmony (and spike actually) rather inconsistent with the lore of vampires established in the early seasons of the show.

The Bronze

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Since this has popped up again and caught my attention. Does anyone else think that a better ending would have been the original reckoning described by Harmony (give or take a little)? It would have been sad but I can't help feel it would have been more epic and definitely more emotional than what we got.
 
W
WillowFromBuffy
Definitely!
HelloIAmHawt
HelloIAmHawt
I think it would have been a better ending, but it is nice to imagine the gang out there forevermore.
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