Do Buffy's uh... personal choices... bother anyone else?

[La Luna Unita]

This has kind of been in the back of my mind for a while, so I wanted to get some other opinions:

Regarding the short-lived relationship with Satsu, does anyone else feel that Buffy was just flat out wrong to pursue things with her? Here's how I look at it - 1) Buffy figures out that Satsu is in love with her, 2) Buffy chats with her about it, including the super-cheesy "you're in terrible danger" line, 3) goes on to explain exactly how and why it's not cool to be in a romantic relationship with her and then 4) sleeps with Satsu, knowing the whole time that she doesn't want the relationship brought to light. She essentially lays it out for Satsu that they've had a one night stand and that's it.

I don't know if two instances is yet the time to call something a pattern, but she also did not sleep with Spike until long after he professed to be in love with her. And going as far back as Riley, we know he eventually concluded as well that she didn't love him (but she's commonly referred to as Riley's "first love" in the series, so I guess we can gather that he was in love with her).

Riley and Spike are circumstances wherein I can believe that a young Buffy may not have known her own mind or had serious needs that were met (emotional, drama, drama, drama, whatever). And of course it's hotly debated that she really did love Spike after all. But totally not while they were getting it on.

However, S8 is presenting us with a more mature Slayer and I really think that abusing the love of another is just plain selfish. "It's been a slow year" doesn't cut it - nor does "I can make it easier on you." Pick someone less emotionally vulnerable to experiment with, I say! The results speak for themselves: Satsu decides she needs to move to the other side of the globe to get over this thing.

I don't know why Buffy would only chase after those who love her first, but I suspect it could be emotional protection for herself - she is completely assured of devotion while having to give none in return.

 

[Blair Waldorf-Bass]

Bravo! *applause* I, for one, felt that it was COMPLETELY out of character for Bufy to do it, it was kind of forced, in my opinion. However, I felt that it was really selfish of her to do this. Granted, with Riley and Spike, she was younger and wasn't as mature as she is now. But by the end of season seven, I know that Buffy was a mature and wonderful young woman. However, her decision to sleep with Satsu COMPLETELY changed my mind and kind of made me very agnry, in point of fact. It was selfish, not in character of Buffy, and I felt that it showed her as an immature woman, absolutely different from the end of season seven, where I felt that Buffy had really become a better person and discovered who she really was.

 

[BuffyElevated]

Yes, Buffy's choices in sleeping with people she doesn't really love bothers me, but at the same time, it's things like that that make her human, you know? We all make bad choices (and I bet most of us here could say there's at least one person we slept with that we wish we didn't), so it's kind of refreshing to see her make mistakes from time to time, but it is becoming a trend with Buffy's character that I am glad is also getting to other fans...

 

[Blair Waldorf-Bass]

That is the thing about Buffy that makes her so loveable and human. In the TV series we got to see all sides of her, not just the sweet and loveable girl that she was at first but the dark sides as well. It's so rare that we get to see a protagonist be selfish, caring, and so many different emotions and have them be displayed inside of the show. However, it is kind of getting (I'm not sure if annoying is the right word) tiring. I know I already said this, but! at the end of season seven, I really thought that Buffy had truly discovered who she really was and had almost, if not fully, matured into the person she was. What happened her just made me extremely unhappy.

 

[La Luna Unita]

Yes, I certainly agree that her faults are part of what draws us to Buffy and I wouldn't have her be pure and flawless for anything. Nor does she have to be right all the time or always make the best decision.

I guess I'm partially relating personally and that makes me frustrated with this particular facet of her personality. In my own life, if I notice a destructive pattern, I work hard to correct it. Doesn't mean I get it right all the time either, but in Buffy's specific instance here, I see a lack of integrity that she doesn't usually display.

 

[Perny]

Buffy's sleeping wouldn't have bothered me IF she wanted it to be a relationship.
But she just uses her to ...."get her itch scratched". She is totally abusing those who shows love towards her, and acts like it's OK, cos she is Buffy..

Selfish bitca!

 

[Kean]

To me it screams abandonment issues. Angel, the only person we have seen her freely and wholly love in a romantic fashion left her. That left a mark on her, she has never let anyone in like she did him since, not even Spike. Add to the fact that her father basically ceased to exist once she moved to L.A. Then we have Giles, the man she has viewed as her father since she arrived in Sunnydale, at the beginning of season four he withdrew from Buffy and her life, he attempted to leave completely in season five and then abandoned her when she needed him the most in season 6, in season seven he flat our betrayed her and stabbed in the back. That could also be said for their current situation in season 8.

I think Buffy has learned to equate love with abondonment andbeing left alone. The pattern started after Angel but what happened in the subsequent years after his departure only emphasised the point. She's a warrior, a fighter...if she can hurt you before you hurt her, she will.

 

[Kean]

white avenger agrees: You forgot Giles plotting to kill spike in Season

The whole betraying her and stabbing her in the back pretty much covers that🙂

 

[white avenger]

white avenger agrees: You forgot Giles plotting to kill spike in Season

That was SUPPOSED to continue: "Season 7. That was nothing short of a complete betrayal of her trust, and, given the final outcome of the season, could very well have spelled defeat for Buffy and her small army, and destruction of the entire world, a fact that I personally hope she rubbed both Giles' AND Wood's noses in very thoroughly for a long, LONG time afterward.
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Keanoite agrees: Somehow I don't think she did. She never rubbed her friends mistakes in their faces, too bad they didn't show her the same curtesy.


I would have, but then maybe I'm just a more vindictive person than Buffy is. Given the events in the Faith/Giles arc in Season 8, though, clearly Buffy still has some ill feelings for at least a couple of her former friends and allies.

 

[Kean]

white avenger agrees: You forgot Giles plotting to kill spike in Season

That was SUPPOSED to continue: "Season 7. That was nothing short of a complete betrayal of her trust, and, given the final outcome of the season, could very well have spelled defeat for Buffy and her small army, and destruction of the entire world, a fact that I personally hope she rubbed both Giles' AND Wood's noses in very thoroughly for a long, LONG time afterward.
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Keanoite agrees: Somehow I don't think she did. She never rubbed her friends mistakes in their faces, too bad they didn't show her the same curtesy.


I would have, but then maybe I'm just a more vindictive person than Buffy is. Given the events in the Faith/Giles arc in Season 8, though, clearly Buffy still has some ill feelings for at least a couple of her former friends and allies.

There are so many unfinished issues between Buffy and her friends Joss could write a spinnoff for it. There are issues going back years that still need to be dealt with.

 

[white avenger]

There are so many unfinished issues between Buffy and her friends Joss could write a spinnoff for it. There are issues going back years that still need to be dealt with.

I think that there's no argument between us there. Hopefully, we'll have a series, or at least an arc, about just what happened between the last scene in "Chosen" and the first frame of Season 8.

 

[Tranquillity]

la Luna Unita wrote:

Regarding the short-lived relationship with Satsu, does anyone else feel that Buffy was just flat out wrong to pursue things with her? Here's how I look at it - 1) Buffy figures out that Satsu is in love with her, 2) Buffy chats with her about it, including the super-cheesy "you're in terrible danger" line, 3) goes on to explain exactly how and why it's not cool to be in a romantic relationship with her and then 4) sleeps with Satsu, knowing the whole time that she doesn't want the relationship brought to light. She essentially lays it out for Satsu that they've had a one night stand and that's it.

Yeah, I always wondered how they got from 3 to 4. I mean at first Buffy is pretty firm that a) she's not gay and b) nothing is going to happen between tham and then next issue they are in bed togather post 'lovin. It just seems like a huge jump in events or like something was left out of the story. Maybe this also makes Buffy's decision making process harder to understand.

 

[white avenger]

la Luna Unita wrote:


Yeah, I always wondered how they got from 3 to 4. I mean at first Buffy is pretty firm that a) she's not gay and b) nothing is going to happen between tham and then next issue they are in bed togather post 'lovin. It just seems like a huge jump in events or like something was left out of the story. Maybe this also makes Buffy's decision making process harder to understand.

If you remember Buffy's first time with Riley, it followed a particularly violent and significant slay. (Maybe Faith was right about slaying making a Slayer hungry and horny) Maybe the same thing happened with Buffy and Satsu, but it would have been multiplied by TWO Slayers. And before anyone says it, "it" never happened between Buffy and Faith under similar circumstances because neither of them had the sexual orientation to make the first move. That wouldn't happen with Satsu.

On that note, isn't interesting that Buffy's manner afterward is markedly different from the same circumstances with Spike? Before everyone came running in, she had pretty much assured Satsu that she was alright with what had happened and even wanted her to spend the night. A marked departure from "Oh, my god, when did the house fall down?" and "If you ever tell anyone about this, I WILL kill you!"

Maybe our favorite Slayer is finally growing up.

 

[CharmedSlayer85]

If you remember Buffy's first time with Riley, it followed a particularly violent and significant slay. (Maybe Faith was right about slaying making a Slayer hungry and horny) Maybe the same thing happened with Buffy and Satsu, but it would have been multiplied by TWO Slayers. And before anyone says it, "it" never happened between Buffy and Faith under similar circumstances because neither of them had the sexual orientation to make the first move. That wouldn't happen with Satsu.

On that note, isn't interesting that Buffy's manner afterward is markedly different from the same circumstances with Spike? Before everyone came running in, she had pretty much assured Satsu that she was alright with what had happened and even wanted her to spend the night. A marked departure from "Oh, my god, when did the house fall down?" and "If you ever tell anyone about this, I WILL kill you!"

Maybe our favorite Slayer is finally growing up.

I completely agree with that, also lets not forget that Buffy is only 23 which is pretty young and not everybody but some people actually do experiment with various different forms of sex at young ages and leave it at that. Some men will have sex with another man once and never do it again and vice versa. I think the main reason people are complaining about the Satsu thing is because it wasn't Faith, I bet if Buffy and Faith had sex there probably wouldn't be so many people questioning Buffy's decision or complaining or whatever. Also on top of that some people do out of character things when they are lonely. Buffy has been commenting that its been a while since she had sex and she was lonely and longing for some type of emotional attachment and here comes someone thats offering that to her so she jumped on it, I mean its human nature. Also as it was pointed out slaying does make you "hungry and horny," and Buffy was already horny without slaying so add slaying into it and she was probably about to bust in her pants.

 

[Blair Waldorf-Bass]

I think the main reason people are complaining about the Satsu thing is because it wasn't Faith, I bet if Buffy and Faith had sex there probably wouldn't be so many people questioning Buffy's decision or complaining or whatever.

I've never actually heard of this viewpoint before. I don't think I would've liked it either if Buffy had slept with Faith instead of Satsu, depending on how it was plotted out. But I still think that it was very forced into the plot and not in Buffy's character at all. It's not that I'm homophobic or anything like that, but it's just that I have several lesbian friends who'd love to jump into bed with Buffy anytime, and they've all said that what happened in season eight wasn't at all plotted out well and that it was just really out of character for Buffy,

 

[sosa lola]

Sleeping with Satsu is certainly not the best decision she's ever made, it's not the smartest, however, Buffy was always forth coming with Satsu about where she stood in the relationship. It wasn't a case of Buffy leading a younger woman by the hand, stringing her on, then telling her it can't evolve into anything after she's had a romp in the sack. Buffy cares about Satsu, she genuinely does, we see it in episodes like 'A Beautiful Sunset' where she takes time out to talk to Satsu to clear the air. She could have continued ignoring it but she didn't for Satsu's sake.

And Satsu's a smart girl, far smarter than some people give her credit for. She knew what this was going into the relationship and no one forced her to sleep with Buffy, she knew the circumstances but chose to anyway. After the sex she says "But you're not gay..." and she knows this to be the fact because Buffy tells her this before sleeping with her. It was always emotionally up front and honest between the two of them.

And Buffy cared about Satsu’s feelings, she not the kind of person who tries to kick Satsu out after the sex, in fact she makes it explicitly clear that’s not what she’s saying at all.

 

[nerd4hire]

Here's something else to figure with Satsu, I think. I think it matters.

Spoiler

She's coming back

.

 

[atticus]

I think the main problem with season 8 is that the writers are loosing the character of Buffy. It feels like season 6 again. Season 7 was an ok season, but Buffy herself was fantastic that year. She grew up. That smile at the end of chosen, was so hopeful, and you really felt, that this woman is going to do great things, and also be happy.
Season 8- fighting with dawn, fighting with giles, fighting with faith, robbing banks, doing damage to humans, maybe even killing them if they get in her way. And sleeping with a girl who loves her but she doesn't feel the same.
The main problem is that I don't like Buffy in season 8. And when you don't like the main character, it's really a problem.

 

[BuffyElevated]

I'm not against the whole Buffy/Satsu thing at all. If the writers were actually going to let it develop into a relationship, then fine, but in my eyes it's almost like they're painting Buffy to be some kind of ho by using all these people just to get her rocks off. And that's not the image I'd like to have of our girl.

 

[sosa lola]

I'm not against the whole Buffy/Satsu thing at all. If the writers were actually going to let it develop into a relationship, then fine, but in my eyes it's almost like they're painting Buffy to be some kind of ho by using all these people just to get her rocks off. And that's not the image I'd like to have of our girl.

Buffy was upfront at all stages about how she felt and very considerate towards Satsu throughout. Satsu is an adult who has shown herself to be completely capable of making her own decisions ("I'll see you on the battlefield, Ma'am.").