Do the PTB care about Buffy?

nerd4hire

nerd4hire

Certified Uncloneable
Joined
Nov 13, 2002
Messages
9,102
I see a lot of mention on message boards about the Powers That Be, and the slayer line. Is that accurate though? Can we assume a relationship between the Powers, and slayers?

The only real mention I can think of, possibly concerning the Power that Be in BTVS, is maybe the Whistler/Angel thing.

If we can believe Jasmine's story concerning the origins of the Powers they seem to have been here about the time of the Old One's (possibly translate as demons), then they left. Are the Powers more concerned with the whole demon/human relationship, than what humans do on their own?
 
H
Hero
your threads are always so intellegent i dont know why i bother trying to reply sometimes.. lmao
I personally don't believe the Powers 'Care' about anyone othet then themselves. They use Earthbound Champions to help fight the fight but dont really care when they have served their purpose, as long as the enemies of the PTB's dont gain power over them.
I'd argue that the PTBs are seen as a force for good because their goalks and the human ones are the same, but the second the human goals change, they would 'declare war'.
 
I think the powers care about the human demon relationship more than what humans do on their own, cos the world according to the jossverse has both co-habbitting together, so human can basically get more powerfull linking up with demons...When evil that is.(I.E W&H for example)

The relationship between the powers and the slayers has to my mind been very vague in Buffy, unless someone can piont out otherwise lol.
The powers are very mysterious in their ways though.So who knows?
 
I don't think there is a connection between the two, I think they probably care about the Slayer, not the person who is the slayer but, the Slayer, as a fighter of good!
 
I didnt think whisler was an agent of the powers that be. I though he was the balance between 'good' and 'evil'.

To my knowledge the powers that be are 'good' right?

Oh and you would've thought they would've tried to get the slayer power on there side.

Although it could be argued that they are on the same side being 'good' and all.

But maybe the power of the slayer is out of the reach to the powers that be.
 
I guess that if you divide the Buffyverse in just two groups good and evil (and maybe neutral as a third) then the PTB and the Slayers are on the same side, but I think that the sides of good and evil are very fragmented and cannot be considered as "one group".

An example: the general consensus amongst most fans seems to be that Jasmine is "evil" (although of an ambiguous nature)... yet still W&H, who are also "evil", oppose her. W&H also gave Angel the amulet, that Spike wore during chosen. This turned out to be essential in defeated the First Evil. Furthermore, Jasmine's idea of world peace/domination doesn't mix well with the FE's idea of unleashing the Turok-Han army. Now, of course you can think of all kind of farfetched ideas, why this would actually all fit, but I think the most logical conclusion is that even though Jasmine, the FE, and W&H are all "evil", they are not all on the same side.

Likewise, I very much doubt that many fans did not considered Team Angel to be "good" while working for W&H in s5, yet the Council, the Slayers, and the Scoobies clearly did not consider them to be on the same side. We see the PTB however, through Cordelia, still giving Angel a (final) vision.

Therefore, as stated before, I think that the moral status (good/evil) of a group does not necessarily determine its affiliations.
 
I have more basic questions. I don't understand the hierarchy in the 'verse. Tell me when I start contradicting Buffyverse canon...

Jasmine claims that the Powers, along with all primeval forces for good and evil were "forged in the inferno of creation". She makes no attempt to explain a first cause, or a "creator" for the creation, right?

Are the "Old Ones" in fact the "evil", metaphysical equivalent of Powers? They would seem to be gods, to humans and other, lesser demons. Illyria's original, non-human incarnation was god-like, for example.

Were all orders of demon "forged in the inferno" as well? All these supernatural beings, Powers, Old Ones, lesser demons populated the earth. Demons supposedly predate humans on Earth, right? Were humans actually evolving from animals at this point? There seems to be something like evolution, adaptation in the 'verse. Demons evolve, change form over time on Earth.

Now, this is essentially just speculative fiction, but...were humans at some point endowed with souls, by the Powers that Be?

The Powers apparently tired of battling the Old Ones. Did they somehow develop a "formula" to ensoul humans, then vacate our dimension"”leaving humans behind to "fight the war" as proxies? A soul wouldn't guarantee obedience, goodness...but it would create a strong incentive, a conscience...

In which case, I would think they would also be very interested in the activities of Slayers...
 
I doubt it.

I mean, Buffy rejected the Watcers Council.

What the PTB use to get the Slayers, train them, etc.

But yeah, I doubt that they really care about anyone.

It they have so much power to create Slayers and such, why don't the yever intervine??

But I'd say Willow's powers surpass the PTB as well as Cordy's, Faith's and Buffy's....
 
You think Willows powers surpass that of the powers that be!?

Willows strong and powerful and all that but I'm not sure she's THAT powerful.

I'd say maybe the powers that be did care about buffy but only because of her link to Angel. As Angel seemed to be more of a focus and throughout Angel the series helped him along the way. Was it their ultimate goal to have him face the senior partners? maybe. maybe not.

Also wasnt it the powers that brought back Angel back from hell? (season 3 buffy) Or am I way off?
 
Well I think that the first was involed in that........

But Willow activated all Slayers, something the Powers never thought of or could possibly do.....
 
The First took credit for it, but it would make sense if the PTB's did it, or Jasmine!
 
Xin Rong
Xin Rong
I agree, just did a thread on the same subject
What if the First was involved with the PTB??

the PTB created slayers from demonic essence right??

Could the First Evil be a Power that turned evil who didn't see things the way of the others??

That would explain the incorporeal thing?

Jasmine had to be born to get a physical body, so maybe the First Didn't have anyone to do that in and projected itself on Earth in a ghost like form...
 
I don't have any answers, but I think this little bit by Jasmine in Shiny Happy People might be the closest thing we have to an explanation of the Powers, and perhaps we can't even believe this.

WOMAN
Yes. In the beginning, before the time of man, great beings walked the earth. Untold power emanated from all quarters"”the seeds of what would come to be known as good and evil. But the shadows stretched and became darkness, and the malevolent among us grew stronger. The earth became a demon realm. Those of us who had the will to resist left this place, but we remained ever-watchful.

GUNN
You're a power that... was?

WOMAN
But then something new emerged from deep inside the earth"”neither demon, nor God.

WESLEY
Man.

WOMAN
And it seemed, for a time, that through this new race, a balance might be restored.

FRED
Guess we really let you down.

WOMAN
But you didn't. It was we who failed you. (stands) We became little more than observers. I could no longer bear to just watch all the suffering. I had to find a way back. But, first I needed a miracle. And so I arranged one. (touches Connor's face) Through you, Angel, through Darla. That is where my parentage began. Two vampires"”creatures one human corrupted by darkness. And you with a soul"”a miracle already.
Click to expand...

This little bit in particular

Yes. In the beginning, before the time of man, great beings walked the earth. Untold power emanated from all quarters"”the seeds of what would come to be known as good and evil. But the shadows stretched and became darkness, and the malevolent among us grew stronger.
Click to expand...

appears to tell us there was power beyond that of the original beings.

It's also worth noting I think, in Fray it appears to be men who finally chase the Old Ones out of this dimension. That's the way I always looked at it anyway. They mention the Magi. There acually were magi, and they were men.

What do the Powers actually do anyway? The answer would appear to be, not that much. So why do we attach so much respect to them?

Did the Powers ensoul men Goldenboy asks. God, I hope not. They seem so lame.

And Cordelia Chase I know of no evidence the Shadowmen or the Watchers were ever in any way connected to the Powers.
 
I give them zero credit.

They let Cordy get visions but they knew that she could die.

PTB=Zero credit

BUt still, the part on the darkness spreading and those that could resist left.......

This helps my theory......The First Evil may have been a PTB.....how else would it know so much...stayed locked away waiting for one moment, one shot..........

The "men" tha created the hell mouth locked the first vampires in it:

From The Harvest:

Giles: This world is older than any of you know. Contrary to popular
mythology, it did not begin as a paradise. For untold eons demons walked
the Earth. They made it their home, their... their Hell. But in time
they lost their purchase on this reality. The way was made for mortal
animals, for, for man. All that remains of the old ones are vestiges,
certain magicks, certain creatures...
Click to expand...

con't

Giles: The books tell the last demon to leave this reality fed off a
human, mixed their blood. He was a human form possessed, infected by the
demon's soul. He bit another, and another, and so they walk the Earth,
feeding... Killing some, mixing their blood with others to make more of
their kind. Waiting for the animals to die out, and the old ones to
return.
Click to expand...

The first vampires would be the Ubervamps.

The First predates knowledge right???

The Old Ones....

Glory......

So The First Evil.....the name........darkness spreaded making its way,........

The first had to be a PTB and if not what??
 
Cordelia Chase* said:
IThe books tell the last demon to leave this reality,
Click to expand...


I'm not sure I understand. What books?

On this

But the shadows stretched and became darkness, and the malevolent among us grew stronger. The earth became a demon realm.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't what Jasmine is calling "the shadows" be more akin to the First? Aren't the shadows beyond the control of the beings who wind up being uncomfortable with the coming evil, and leaving. Weren't those beings who left the Powers?
 
Yes but it is possible that The First was a PTB.

The Books part......That whole paragraph was something that Giles said that I found on an site.....
 
Yes but it is possible that The First was a PTB.
Click to expand...

Sure. Anything that could conceivably be imagined, or considered, and accepted by Joss is possible.

I wonder if it's likely considering what information we do have though.

Edit

I fixed your post above, so you can tell where the quote is.
 
We're assuming the PTB are good though. All evidence so far has shown this, yes. But to be fair, we dont really know what the PTBs ultimate goal was.

The most we know about them is what Jasmine has said. But to me, she doesnt have much credibility.

For all we know, man could be the ultimate evil. Destroyer of the world. And the PTB on mans side. Does that make them good or evil?

Feel free to prove me wrong. Its early and the thought just popped into my head. Cant be bothered researching.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom