xaphania
Spike/Buffy
Political correctness gone mad? I dunno. A few years ago here in Birmingham the council wanted to rename Christmas. Yep, you heard right. They wanted to call it Winterval, so as not to 'offend' anyone who didn't celebrate it.
Do you pledge?
- Thread starter msfantastico87
- Start date
Political correctness gone mad? I dunno. A few years ago here in Birmingham the council wanted to rename Christmas. Yep, you heard right. They wanted to call it Winterval, so as not to 'offend' anyone who didn't celebrate it.
sisterofmercy
Ray of Sunshine..
The Daily Mail and the Daily Express had a field day with that, thought they'd never let it go.
msfantastico87
Joann the Goblin Slayer
Um, what? Excuse me...
ROTFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!
*ahem*
Wow. That's interesting. Why would they name it that??? I mean, here in the states, we would never re-name it. That or any other holiday, no to my knowledge at least. where I work, and most work places, we tend to say "Happy Holidays" so as to not offend anyone. But re-naming a holiday is just peculiar and ridiculous.
BuffyElevated
Scooby
This is my opinion....
I live in America, and I'm damn proud to be American. I always say the pledge, and mean every word of it. I think that any American that has a problem with the way the pledge is written, or anything else about our nation's pledge, currency, etc. should be respectful or get the hell out.
Whether people like it or not, this country was founded on Christian values. Our founding fathers did that with good intentions, and we need to all respect that. If the pledge said "Under the Holy Mother", I'd still say it exactly as it was written out of respect.
So in short, YES I do say the pledge, and I DO consider it unpatriotic and offensive if people refuse to say it or leave out some parts just because they don't agree with them.
I live in America, and I'm damn proud to be American. I always say the pledge, and mean every word of it. I think that any American that has a problem with the way the pledge is written, or anything else about our nation's pledge, currency, etc. should be respectful or get the hell out.
Whether people like it or not, this country was founded on Christian values. Our founding fathers did that with good intentions, and we need to all respect that. If the pledge said "Under the Holy Mother", I'd still say it exactly as it was written out of respect.
So in short, YES I do say the pledge, and I DO consider it unpatriotic and offensive if people refuse to say it or leave out some parts just because they don't agree with them.
Flannen
Huge kudos for standing up for what you believe. You go girl! lol
brinkster130
[No message]
msfantastico87
Joann the Goblin Slayer
Ok, I can understand why you feel so strongly. Believe me I do. However, If I had a friend that was not religious and refused to say the pledge, I would not find it un-patriotic, not would I tell them to get out of my country. Seems a bit harsh no? I mean, yes the country was founded on Christian values, but you also need to remember but Christian values, no, religion all together has changed throughout the years. Wouldn't it be disrespectful to go against someone else's beliefs simply because they do not agree with a line in it, or because they do not do it? I mean, what harm are they actually causing? At the end of the day, it's just symbolism no?
Also, I'm glad you decided to take part in the discussion. I wanted to ask you a specific question. You're the only one on the boards that I know of that lives a military life. Your husband is in the military if I am not mistaken. So I wanted to ask...and anyone can answer this is they wish...
Do you have an american flag in your home? Do you pledge allegiance every single day? Is it like part of your routine?
zobothehobo
Scooby
But does my not saying the pledge negatively effect the country or anyone else in any way? I just don't understand how my standing quietly, respectfully, and silently while the pledge is being said negatively effects anyone in any way. I also don't see how he speaks of me as unpatriotic. Like I said I love my country and there are somethings I do find unpatriotic like being disruptive during the pledge (talk, shuffling papers, walking around, heck... even sitting I find a little rude). But standing silently and respectfully is not unpatriotic.
But did they really? Because I remember that and I seem to call that it was a load of crap. The Daily Mail went wild with it because they're [expletives] anyway but in reality it was never going to happen and nobody ever said it would. Just like when the country blew up because we weren't going to be allowed to wear English football shirts during the World Cup so as not offend anyone. It's all total rubbish that people jump on and make a big deal out of it when it was never actually said by anyone in government or authority.
xaphania
Spike/Buffy
dan k
Bangel Is Eternal
The only issue i have is when foreign nationals over here complain about what we do in nativety play's, what we name our holidays etc. If they don't like it, this is England, not your country, so leave.
I just checked with my mum cos I wasn't sure either, but she's pretty sure it was something the papers got hold of and ran with, with no actual evidence/proof/quote that any council anywhere had an intention of doing this.
Okay, this is what really gets my goat. It isn't the foreign nationals who have an issue with it. Where do you hear this stuff? From The Sun, The Daily Mail and other media. I have NEVER heard of any actual person from another country or ethnic group (aside from extremists maybe) come out and say ANYTHING of the sort. This is my issue with patriotism. Our patriotism takes the form of telling other people to get out of our country because of the manipulation of the media to scaremonger and breed hatred. We attack, with absolutely no inhibitions, other ethnic groups because our tabloid media makes stuff up. As in actually makes stuff up or twists stories beyond all comprehension.
But I'm aware this is now very off topic, sorry msfantastico, this is a thread about US partriotism (for the most part). Maybe we should start our own?!
Z
zobothehobo
Our patriotism is a lot like that now too. I cannot count the times I've heard "Why don't you just get out and go to Canada since you obviously hate America you socialist scum!"
P
prophecygrrl
I hate when "patriotism" turns into nationalism.
xaphania
Spike/Buffy
I've just googled and wiki has this (though I know it's not the most reliable source):
msfantastico87
Joann the Goblin Slayer
Well I did ask about non-American answers as well so so far, it has not gone off topic 😛 It is interesting to me to know how one county's patriotism differs from another 🙂
However I do want to ask both Americans and Non-Americans' something...
Here in America, it is apparently a big deal to deface government property(dollar bills for example). There is also, flag burning. It is illegal in some states. What is everyone's thoughts on burning your home county's flag?
Hmm, interesting. It kind of supports us both lol. So it was real in the sense it was designed as a way of being more inclusive...but the idea that it was going to become something more is 'more commonly imagined'.
I don't have too much against an attempt to be more inclusive. Being divisive certainly isn't going to being communities together!
dan k
Bangel Is Eternal
Perhaps your right Flannen, maybe i am guilty of just accepting what the papers say. However i do know that foreign nationals have marched in protest about our soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan and that annoys me. These men and women are giving their lives, they deserve the utmost respect not criticism for a decision to go to war which they didn't make.
BuffyElevated
Well said!!
BuffyElevated
Scooby
I know my view on the subject seems harsh. But I seriously do feel that way. Why?
I can still remember vividly how different life was in our country before 9/11. I was 19 years old when the attacks on our country were done, and I remember how life was before and after that day.
America has always tried to be the big brother to every one in the world. We've always tried to be a peacemaker, a mediator, and lend a hand to countries who need it. We let people come to this country to work and live, when people who were born here in our own country suffer and struggle. It's sad, but I understand and support the people who genuinely want to come here for a better life than what they had in their home country.
At the same time, I hate how "political correctness" has overcome the United States. You can't say someone's black; they're African-American, and saying otherwise offends them. You can't pray in school if you want; it might offend someone who's of a different denomination than you. You can't wear certain clothing out in public; you might offend the person sitting next to you. It's gotten completely out of hand, and that's one big reason why I get so angry at people who want the Constitution, pledge, currency, etc. changed. We should not have to bow down to accomodate EVERYONE. My thinking is "If you're so unhappy with the laws and rules of this country, why did you come here in the first place? And if you were born here, how can you not be patriotic and support the laws and rules that are in place, which have seemed to work pretty well for the most part over the years?"
There's a reason people want to move to the U.S. so bad, and part of that is our country's ways and beliefs, which are all based on Christian beliefs. I'm not saying everyone who lives here has to be a Christian. Just take the overall intention and go with it. Our forefathers didn't know and understand how many religions would be here, and they certainly didn't foresee how many other races and cultures would be in our country like they are now. But the intent was to teach our people to live a wholesome, moral life and to uphold the laws of our country. What's so wrong with that??
Yes, I am a PROUD military wife. I support my husband and the work that he does as part of his job. Do I support the war? NO. I don't feel our government has the right to go into any other country and try to make people change the way they live. I have not supported the "reasons" given for being in Iraq and Afghanistan from the very beginning and I still don't. However, there are thousands of men and women like my husband who fight for our country's rights every single day. I live on post at Fort Campbell, KY, and in the past year, we lost more than 100 of our soldiers to war-related injuries. It makes me proud that they're brave and willing to go into these war-torn zones and do what they think is going to help people. But it also saddens me that they fight for the same people who criticize and hate them for it, too. I've heard people say they're baby-killers, and that they're murdering innocent people. But I wonder if these people are aware that these innocent people are coming at them with bombs strapped to their chest because someone told them their God would want them to sacrifice themselves to kill our military, or that these innocent people just happen to be living on streets where their own people have placed car bombs and IED's in the roads to kill our military?
Anyway, we don't have a flag inside our home. We are very patriotic and hang one on the outside, but we don't say the pledge every day in our home. My daughter says it at school, though, and she loves to do it in front of other people; she's proud to support the USA and her dad. 🙂
X
xfivebyfive
I love your second paragraph. I support the troops not the war and people say that means I dont support the troops.
Washburne
Seems I was too busy arguing with parts of this post that I forgot to mention that I really like the second part. Even if I could comment on that too. But not critizing.
zobothehobo
Scooby
I write on my dollar bills sometimes. And I have no problem with flag burning... That's what you're supposed to do if the flag touches the ground... am I wrong? We were always taught that in elementary school and now I'm supposed to say burning a flag means I hate America? What?msfantastico87 said:
P
prophecygrrl
Wait, really about the flag touching the ground part? I've never heard of that! :D
I know some of them did, yes. But when you think about how few of them that was (in comparison to all those that are living in this country) can the hatred the all recieve in return be justified? Should we condone their hatred of our country by our own hatred of them? It's the same with those who burnt a poppy wreath on Rememberance Day. Fifty of them were disrespectful enough to do something so hateful. And in return, thousands of British people said some of the most obscene, hateful things I have ever seen all over Facebook.
And don't forget a lot of people from other backgrounds/ethnic groups also fight for our country and are giving their lives. One of the most recent soldiers to be killed was a British Muslim.
As to flag, currency burning...I remember when I was younger it being said that to post a stamp upside down is treason because it's defacing the Queen. Also killing a swan is treason too because all swans belong to the Queen. lol, but I'm not sure how seriously this is all taken because I don't recall any instances of it.
As to flag burning, no idea how that'd go down. Maybe a flag means more to the US because we have the Queen's face what with having a monarchy? I don't know.
zobothehobo
Scooby
I believe it's the government's job to be that politically correct. I hate it when normal people are like that. I was very proud of my band director all throughout high school who buys a (real) Christmas tree every year and puts it in the band room. He likes the smell and the band boosters get each student ornaments that differ from year to year (usually they have a theme about the trip the band is taking that year). Even when the band is CRUNCHED for money (when we went to the Rose Bowl junior year) there is always a Christmas Tree with ornaments in the band room. However, it's the government's job to be politically correct and JR works above the law (he shouldn't but he does. I mean, he hits his students with his drumsticks and bruised me several times doing so). I think telling kids they can't pray to themselves if they want is a bit excessive but forcing kids to pray or acknowledge the existence of a God they don't believe in is ridiculous and disrespectful. I value my religious freedom and I would like the government to respect it.HisMrs said:
xfivebyfive
Because its Fate.
I think its stupid to destroy money I don't get the point of it. Just leave it alone. When I was little I was told if you rip money its illegal so I thought I would get arrested when I accidently ripped a bill. So I tried to tape it up lol.
As for burning the flag. Yes it is disrespectful and unpatriotic. You're burning the symbol of the united states. So why are you here exactly? When I think of the flag I think of the soldiers serving and I think about the millions of men and women have died for our country. Regardless of whether I agree with why they fought, they fought for us and they lost their lives. To burn the flag, which to me is a symbol of them, is completely disrespectful to the people serving our country.
As for burning the flag. Yes it is disrespectful and unpatriotic. You're burning the symbol of the united states. So why are you here exactly? When I think of the flag I think of the soldiers serving and I think about the millions of men and women have died for our country. Regardless of whether I agree with why they fought, they fought for us and they lost their lives. To burn the flag, which to me is a symbol of them, is completely disrespectful to the people serving our country.
zobothehobo
Scooby
To clarify, I'm against burning the flag for any reason other than it fell on the ground which I was always taught was proper flag etiquette because you don't want the symbol of your country to be on the ground. To me burning a flag after it falling on the ground is like providing it with a proper burial service.
Well actually if someone can justify it with a GOOD well thought out symbolic protest, I would make an exception. Only if the protest was well thought out though. And burning the flag for the hell of it is awful.
Well actually if someone can justify it with a GOOD well thought out symbolic protest, I would make an exception. Only if the protest was well thought out though. And burning the flag for the hell of it is awful.