Do you pledge?

[Washburne]

Not sure what the law says about burning the swedish flag or destroying our money for some "cause" but I'm guessing it's not that popular. Personally I'd see both things as silly. If you don't like my country fine. But there has to be better way to show it in that case.

And if you were born here, how can you not be patriotic and support the laws and rules that are in place, which have seemed to work pretty well for the most part over the years?"

First let me say that to me there's a difference between disliking rules and laws and go all out and cause other people pain and hurt because you're against them.

But if I see a quote like yours above simply as it is (which mean I might be missing something crucuial I admit) I just can't see it your way. As I mentioned earlier I'm proud of being a swede but if we never changed the laws and rules women wouldn't be able to vote. I'm only mentioning one since I think it's enough to show my point. I'm sure you can mention loads and loads of law changes that you approve of. Hating more or less every law and rule a country has is completely different of course.

If we go by the pledge it's wide and can't be seen the exact same way. So if it was that you meant I apologize. Not still sure I would agree 100% with you even if that's what you mean.

The world changes. We, our laws and rules should change with them. Go gay marriage! Sorry. Couldn't help myself...

 

[zobothehobo]

Not sure what the law says about burning the swedish flag or destroying our money for some "cause" but I'm guessing it's not that popular. Personally I'd see both things as silly. If you don't like my country fine. But there has to be better way to show it in that case.



First let me say that to me there's a difference between disliking rules and laws and go all out and cause other people pain and hurt because you're against them.

But if I see a quote like yours above simply as it is (which mean I might be missing something crucuial I admit) I just can't see it your way. As I mentioned earlier I'm proud of being a swede but if we never changed the laws and rules women wouldn't be able to vote. I'm only mentioning one since I think it's enough to show my point. I'm sure you can mention loads and loads of law changes that you approve of. Hating more or less every law and rule a country has is completely different of course.

If we go by the pledge it's wide and can't be seen the exact same way. So if it was that you meant I apologize. Not still sure I would agree 100% with you even if that's what you mean.

The world changes. We, our laws and rules should change with them. Go gay marriage! Sorry. Couldn't help myself...

If I could rep, I would. I agree with your response to Britt SOOO much!

 

[sisterofmercy]

I'm surprised so many people feel so passionately about their country's flag. I know there's a lot of symbolism associated with it, but I think at least in the UK we've moved past it a bit (obviously not everyone has, but I don't see many people caring about the flag when there's not a football tournament on). If someone were to burn the British flag I'd just see it as a piece of cloth on fire, I suppose it depends on what meaning you link with it.

 

[msfantastico87]

Some people may hate me, hell, some people already do, but here are my views on the American Flag:

It's just a piece of fabric. Crap burns. Deal with it. It's just a symbol. Does it mean I want America to fail or burn down to the ground? Nope. I love my country. I may not completely agree with a lot of it's laws and such, but to me, we shouldn't let a piece of fabric keep us "together". It's a smidge ridiculous to me. Acts should keep us together. Not a symbol. I love hte flag, don't get me wrong, I just don't think it's such a big deal if someone defaces it.

Oh, and just to clarify, I would never do it. It's so pretty 🙂

What are all your thoughts on the Confederate flag? Southern Americans, do you feel like you are segregated from the rest of your country?

 

[brinkster130]

And I have no problem with flag burning... That's what you're supposed to do if the flag touches the ground... am I wrong?

Yes, you are right. There are lots of flag etiquette rules and that is one of them. 🙂 Also, if a Flag is old and worn the only acceptable way to dispose of it is to burn it.

Currently burning the flag is legal and is protected as part of Free Speech but it is still widely viewed as disrespectful and distasteful.

 

[prophecygrrl]

I don't mean to start an argument or anything, but most of the key Founding Fathers were atheists, agnostics, or Deists, and the Constitution makes no reference to a Christian God. Why do some consider it founded on Christian values? I'm always a bit confused when I see this.

And as for the pledge, the "under God" part was added in 1954, wasn't it? 🙂

Patriotism, to me, is simply believing in your country. Especially in times like these (and in the past, of course), it is believing that your country can be better and fighting for that better future. It doesn't have to mean believing that your nation is the best on earth or pledging allegiance to a flag every morning. Sometimes it can include pledging allegiance, or joining the military, or all the conventional things we usually consider patriotic. But rebellion, dissent, independence, and critical thinking are just as patriotic, IMO. I think most of those who protest and find fault with the state (full disclosure: I'm speaking as one of them) in terms of how we handle religion, other cultures, immigrants, and the myriad of other issues the U.S. faces are not being unpatriotic; in fact, I think expression and fighting for true freedom for all cultures, religions, and peoples under one nation is what America should be about.

Personally, like I said before, I don't say the pledge. I don't consider it some huge protest on my part and I'm not unnecessarily disrespectful about it either, but I just don't feel comfortable saying it. Without getting into anything TOO horribly political, I'll just say that I don't believe the America of "liberty and justice for all" that it mentions exists right now. My hope is that one day it will, but the America as it stands today- the one with so much bigotry (and some if it legally practiced!), apathy, and ignorance is not my America.

I don't think it's unpatriotic of me or others to choose not to say the pledge. To me, not saying it doesn't mean I don't love my country or support the soldiers in the military. It means I love it too much to pledge allegiance to a version of the United States I don't believe in.

For the record, I agree and I also support the troops, but definitely not the wars.

 

[zobothehobo]

What are all your thoughts on the Confederate flag? Southern Americans, do you feel like you are segregated from the rest of your country?

I am proud to live in the southeastern region of the US. Very very proud. I like my grits, I like my fried food, and I like my sweet tea. I love my slight southern accent and I love my state (NC). I HATE the confederate flag. It's a symbol of racism. I don't want to hear any hillbilly idiot tell me it's a symbol of pride for your heritage... 1 my family wasn't in the south in the Civil War, the only bit of my family even here was in the territories up north. 2 if your family WAS here and WAS a part of the confederate army, you should be ashamed. They fought for slavery. Any hillbilly idiot who wants to tell me the civil war wasn't about slavery, step up and be prepared to be knocked down. I'm proud of my state and the southeast, I am. I am not proud of the history of the state and region in regards to the civil war and I will NEVER display a confederate flag and I ALWAYS call people out on it. If I see someone wearing it on their hat, I tell them their blatant display of racism is sickening and appalling. Likewise, if I see it on someone's shirt, outside their house, on their car, on their glasses... whatever. I will call them out on it because it is NOT ok or acceptable. As you can tell, I feel VERY strongly about this.

 

[brinkster130]

It's just a piece of fabric. Crap burns. Deal with it. It's just a symbol. Does it mean I want America to fail or burn down to the ground? Nope. I love my country. I may not completely agree with a lot of it's laws and such, but to me, we shouldn't let a piece of fabric keep us "together". It's a smidge ridiculous to me. Acts should keep us together. Not a symbol. I love hte flag, don't get me wrong, I just don't think it's such a big deal if someone defaces it.

You are right, at the end of the day it is just a piece of fabric but its because of what it symbolizes that some people are offended by people destroying it in a negative manner.

When I think of people burning/destroying the flag I remember all the people who died for that flag and the country it represents.They died so you could have the right to have your protest this way. Now considering how many gave their lives for this country and knowing they fought for what the flag symbolizes I don't think its a tasteful thing to do.

IMO its disrespectful to all our fallen soldiers.

What are all your thoughts on the Confederate flag? Southern Americans, do you feel like you are segregated from the rest of your country?

I don't have a problem with the Confederate flag, it is widely recognized symbol of the South and I believe most people fly it in support of their heritage. You know, more to show their history not to show hate.

 

[zobothehobo]

Flannen agrees: *hyperventilates* just noticed you live in North Carolina! So jealous, can I come visit?

Sure! Just out of curiosity, why are you jealous of NC specifically? I mean, not that I don't know why someone would be because The Old North State is clearly the best out of the fifty, but why NC?

 

[Flannen]

Sure! Just out of curiosity, why are you jealous of NC specifically? I mean, not that I don't know why someone would be because The Old North State is clearly the best out of the fifty, but why NC?

Cos it's where One Tree Hill is set and filmed and Wilmington looks so beautiful. I've heard the whole state is too and I really want to visit!

 

[brinkster130]

I HATE the confederate flag. It's a symbol of racism. I don't want to hear any hillbilly idiot tell me it's a symbol of pride for your heritage... 1 my family wasn't in the south in the Civil War, the only bit of my family even here was in the territories up north. 2 if your family WAS here and WAS a part of the confederate army, you should be ashamed. They fought for slavery. Any hillbilly idiot who wants to tell me the civil war wasn't about slavery, step up and be prepared to be knocked down. I'm proud of my state and the southeast, I am. I am not proud of the history of the state and region in regards to the civil war and I will NEVER display a confederate flag and I ALWAYS call people out on it. If I see someone wearing it on their hat, I tell them their blatant display of racism is sickening and appalling. Likewise, if I see it on someone's shirt, outside their house, on their car, on their glasses... whatever. I will call them out on it because it is NOT ok or acceptable. As you can tell, I feel VERY strongly about this.

Ouch. Im not from the South (but most of my family is) and I don't fly a confederate flag but just because someone does doesnt make them an hillbilly idiot. I understand your view and in some cases you are correct, there are certainly some people who fly the Confederate flags as a symbol of racism....but there are tons of people who do fly it as a symbol of the South. Granted it may not be the best choice of a symbol for the South but it is...and being proud of the South or having a Confederate flag does not automatically make someone a hillbilly idiot.

You are making a generalization about a large group of people and you are coming across as an extremely intolerant person.

 

[zobothehobo]

Cos it's where One Tree Hill is set and filmed and Wilmington looks so beautiful. I've heard the whole state is too and I really want to visit!

Ah yes, Wilmington, one of the most overrated beaches in all of the state. That and Kitty Hawk. haha yeah, but the whole state is really beautiful. And we've got the perfect geography. From the beach, the coastal plains, to the Piedmont, to the foothills, to the mountains perfectly. And we've got me. And I rule.

Ouch. Im not from the South (but most of my family is) and I don't fly a confederate flag but just because someone does doesnt make them an hillbilly idiot. I understand your view and in some cases you are correct, there are certainly some people who fly the Confederate flags as a symbol of racism....but there are tons of people who do fly it as a symbol of the South. Granted it may not be the best choice of a symbol for the South but it is...and being proud of the South or having a Confederate flag does not automatically make someone a hillbilly idiot.

You are making a generalization about a large group of people and you are coming across as an extremely intolerant person.

Like I said I feel like it being flown as a symbol of the South is ridiculous. It symbolizes the south during the Civil War as a separate country. It symbolizes slavery and the acceptance of that. I don't think EVERYONE who flies it is a "hillbilly idiot." But I think anyone who would defend flying it has problems. I used the term "hillbilly idiot" because everyone who's defended flying it to me, I would place in that category.

I know I'm making a generalization about a larger group of people and I'm coming across as an extremely intolerant person. And I am. I am intolerant of the confederate flag. I am intolerant of pride for that time in this regions history. I am intolerant of the acceptance of slavery which is what defending and being proud of that time is. I am intolerant of racism. So yes, I know. And that's the point.

 

[prophecygrrl]

Like I said I feel like it being flown as a symbol of the South is ridiculous. It symbolizes the south during the Civil War as a separate country. It symbolizes slavery and the acceptance of that.

I'm not from the South, but I'm always really creeped out when I see people fly the Confederate flag, especially in PLACE of the U.S. one.

@brinkster- It's not just a symbol of the South, though. People who fly it usually know the political and racial implications of it, and that's the issue there. There's a reason why it's so popular among white supremacists, isn't there?

 

[brinkster130]

Like I said I feel like it being flown as a symbol of the South is ridiculous.

I agree with you here, I don't think adopting the Confederate flag as a sign of the South was a good call. It's much to controversial and does have associations with some very negative history and ways of thinking.

I know I'm making a generalization about a larger group of people and I'm coming across as an extremely intolerant person. And I am. I am intolerant of the confederate flag. I am intolerant of pride for that time in this regions history. I am intolerant of the acceptance of slavery which is what defending and being proud of that time is. I am intolerant of racism. So yes, I know. And that's the point.

And you would have not trouble finding people who fly the Confederate flag who are intolerant of those same things. 🙄

---------- Post added at 02:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:00 PM ----------

It's not just a symbol of the South. People who fly it usually know the political and racial implications of it, and that's the issue there. There's a reason why it's so popular among white supremacists, isn't there?

There is no denying that there are still white supremacists who use the confederate flag as a sign of racism. But in all fairness it should also be acknowledged that the flag has been adopted as a symbol of the South and many do fly in to show the Southern pride.

If you don't believe me you can always take a trip down to the South and knock on someones door who is flying it as ask them about it. There is a good chance you will be greeted with some good ol' Southern hospitality and will find that it is not something that is only embraced but white supremacists.

 

[prophecygrrl]

There is no denying that there are still white supremacists who use the confederate flag as a sign of racism. But in all fairness it should also be acknowledged that the flag has been adopted as a symbol of the South and many do fly in to show the Southern pride.

If you don't believe me you can always take a trip down to the South and knock on someones door who is flying it as ask them about it. There is a good chance you will be greeted with some good ol' Southern hospitality and will find that it is not something that is only embraced but white supremacists.

Yep, I agree that's probably true. Not everyone who flies it is racist, and I didn't mean to say that everyone is. But the flag is controversial for very, very legitimate reasons, and there are a ton of other ways to show Southern pride than flying the Confederate flag. There's no denying that it's used as a racist symbol as well as one of regional pride, and I think you agree with me there. I meant to say that most people who fly it are probably aware of the controversy surrounding it, as well as what it means as a symbol of the Civil War and slavery. I must confess that in that case I do find insistence on flying it a bit suspect when surely there are more agreeable and respectful ways of showing pride.

 

[Willow My Love]

Honestly, I haven't said the pledge of allegiance since I was in elementary school. We had to say it every morning. But it's not something I'm gonna go around spouting off about. I know where my loyalties lie, and I don't think I need to "pledge" anything. I pay my taxes, I vote, I support my troops. I think that's enough.

The only thing I find offensive is when people don't follow the laws on keeping a light on your flag at all times. If you hang an American flag, you have to have a light for it at night. It's really annoying when people don't. It's disrespectful. If you can't afford a light at night, take down your flag.

 

[EvilBuffy]

I'm from the south (NC) and I don't like the confederate flag. Of all the people I have met who fly it a good 90% of them are racist. So my judgement call is based on my personal experience.

Then again, I don't like living in the south so I really never cared about the flag in the first place. 😀

 

[BuffyThoughts]

About North Carolina: I visited the place for the first time last May. I thought the Outer Banks are overrated, but it's a beautiful place with some great people in it. I love the town of Southport, near the SC line. I wish I could afford to move there. I have a couple of good friends there.

About the only thing I don't understand about NC is how they ever elected Jesse Helms.

Getting back to the original question ... I am not a religious person, I don't like the words "Under God" in the pledge, and I don't say them when I recite the pledge, which I do when I attend political meetings. So far I have not seen fit to take a public stand on it, though I often think about it.

 

[Big Damn Hero]

I don't pledge. Never have done, never will do.

I suppose the fact I'm English has a bit of a part to play in that... (sw)

 

[Goby]

I said the Pledge a zillion times as a kid.

As a parent, I believe it is wrong. Especially one line.

The "under God" part was inserted in 53/54 (too lazy to look on wikipedia) to differentiate our fine country versus the godless communism countries. Communism is virtually dead. Let's get rid of that line.

Next, since I am not Christian, and do not believe in God, it is frustrating to my son to have to say that when he doesn't believe in God either. Why are they forcing religion down my son's throat? What about the First Amendment and separate of church and state?

BTW, I just wanted to agree with Zobo. I feel the same about people who fly the flag and are proud of their "southern heritage." The flag stands for slavery, Jim Crow, segregation, lynching, The Tuskegee syphilis experiment, and other fine examples of "southern heritage."