Do you pledge?

[BuffyElevated]

Like I said I feel like it being flown as a symbol of the South is ridiculous. It symbolizes the south during the Civil War as a separate country. It symbolizes slavery and the acceptance of that. I don't think EVERYONE who flies it is a "hillbilly idiot." But I think anyone who would defend flying it has problems. I used the term "hillbilly idiot" because everyone who's defended flying it to me, I would place in that category.

I know I'm making a generalization about a larger group of people and I'm coming across as an extremely intolerant person. And I am. I am intolerant of the confederate flag. I am intolerant of pride for that time in this regions history. I am intolerant of the acceptance of slavery which is what defending and being proud of that time is. I am intolerant of racism. So yes, I know. And that's the point.

Ok, I have a HUGE problem with this. I was born and raised in the South, and I am extremely proud of my roots. I was raised by an extremely moral family, and raised to be respectful and tolerant of everyone no matter what race they are. When I look at the Confederate Flag, I understand that it represents a dark time in our nation's history- FOR SOME. When I look at the Confederate Flag, I'm reminded of the things you mention here:

I am proud to live in the southeastern region of the US. Very very proud. I like my grits, I like my fried food, and I like my sweet tea. I love my slight southern accent and I love my state (NC).

Except for the fact that I'm from southeast Missouri, I could have written that myself. Those are the things I see when I look at that flag.
And for the record, my sister has two biracial children (both their fathers are black) and SHE'S not offended by the shirt I have with that flag on it, or the keyring my husband had (before it broke). Neither was her ex boyfriend, who was a full-blooded African American male.
I don't get why you have to call people names who take pride in their roots AND see the beauty in that symbol. I'm sure as hell not a hillbilly idiot, and I'm highly offended at your choice of words in that post. So offended, in fact, that I'm not posting in this topic any more after this because I'm afraid I'll get myself banned.

 

[zobothehobo]

Ok, I have a HUGE problem with this. I was born and raised in the South, and I am extremely proud of my roots. I was raised by an extremely moral family, and raised to be respectful and tolerant of everyone no matter what race they are. When I look at the Confederate Flag, I understand that it represents a dark time in our nation's history- FOR SOME. When I look at the Confederate Flag, I'm reminded of the things you mention here:

Except for the fact that I'm from southeast Missouri, I could have written that myself. Those are the things I see when I look at that flag.
And for the record, my sister has two biracial children (both their fathers are black) and SHE'S not offended by the shirt I have with that flag on it, or the keyring my husband had (before it broke). Neither was her ex boyfriend, who was a full-blooded African American male.
I don't get why you have to call people names who take pride in their roots AND see the beauty in that symbol. I'm sure as hell not a hillbilly idiot, and I'm highly offended at your choice of words in that post. So offended, in fact, that I'm not posting in this topic any more after this because I'm afraid I'll get myself banned.

I'm sorry that I offended you so much. The confederate flag offends me beyond words. That's why my choice of words was so strong. I do not think you are a hillbilly idiot. But the confederate flag DOES represent that period of time and it DOES represent all the negative things that go along with it. To me, flying a confederate flag and saying it's being proud of living in the south is like a German person flying a Nazi flag and saying their proud of living in Germany. That flag represents a really awful time in which slavery was fought FOR. saying it represents that TO SOME is kind of ridiculous. That's like saying the Nazi flag represents WW2 and all the awful things that came with that TO SOME but represents pride in German heritage to others. (And yes, my distaste for the confederate flag and my distaste for the Nazi flag and the things both flags represent are about equal).

Also I'd like to mention I think it's really horrible that when you see the confederate flag you do not see the atrocities of slavery and the civil war. These are things that shouldn't be forgotten. The fact that you see the confederate flag (which stands for so much hate) and you see all the things I love about being born and raise in the south makes me feel like crying.

 

[msfantastico87]

@brinkster- It's not just a symbol of the South, though. People who fly it usually know the political and racial implications of it, and that's the issue there. There's a reason why it's so popular among white supremacists, isn't there?

There is no denying that there are still white supremacists who use the confederate flag as a sign of racism. But in all fairness it should also be acknowledged that the flag has been adopted as a symbol of the South and many do fly in to show the Southern pride.

Ok, I have a HUGE problem with this. I was born and raised in the South, and I am extremely proud of my roots. I was raised by an extremely moral family, and raised to be respectful and tolerant of everyone no matter what race they are. When I look at the Confederate Flag, I understand that it represents a dark time in our nation's history- FOR SOME. When I look at the Confederate Flag, I'm reminded of the things you mention here:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
-To all of you in the south, I am not from the south, but I used to live in a small town here in Florida named Zephyrhills. My dad and I were the only Hispanics in the town and we were frowned upon. The only reason I got my first job, is because my dad was wealthy and people respected that. However, everywhere I went, there was a confederate flag. When I asked about it(since at the time I didn't know much about it), I was told to get out of their town and what not, and that that is the reason people like me get burned.

Which leads me to this...

After doing some research and actual people telling me so, I realized that most of the older people in the town were actually part of the KKK, and I had heard stories about well, you know. What are your thoughts on the KKK, and what exactly does the Confederate flag have to do with it?

Again, just to be clear, I am not trying to get people heated, this is for my own curiosity, since I never payed attention in history class 😛

 

[zobothehobo]

I'd answer that question, but my words would get me banned no doubt.

 

[prophecygrrl]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
-To all of you in the south, I am not from the south, but I used to live in a small town here in Florida named Zephyrhills. My dad and I were the only Hispanics in the town and we were frowned upon. The only reason I got my first job, is because my dad was wealthy and people respected that. However, everywhere I went, there was a confederate flag. When I asked about it(since at the time I didn't know much about it), I was told to get out of their town and what not, and that that is the reason people like me get burned.

Which leads me to this...

After doing some research and actual people telling me so, I realized that most of the older people in the town were actually part of the KKK, and I had heard stories about well, you know. What are your thoughts on the KKK, and what exactly does the Confederate flag have to do with it?

Again, just to be clear, I am not trying to get people heated, this is for my own curiosity, since I never payed attention in history class 😛

I'm not from the South personally so I don't know if I can answer your question fully. 😛

I don't know much about the *direct* relationship between the KKK and the Confederate flag other than that the first KKK started as a reaction against the end of the Civil War, but I'm not sure that's relevant in today's context.

But yes, I think that in the context of today, the Confederate flag is far more than just a symbol of the South. White supremacists/the KKK use it today as a symbol of pride not only for their heritage, but out of nostalgia for those times, and promotion of that hate. For the majority of people, that flag is a symbol of hate, racism, and a time when human beings were considered property. Not everyone who flies it is a racist, yes, but my point is that it's associated with really, really utterly disgusting hate. I don't think it will ever be possible to separate the flag from that history and those attitudes, and moreover, I'm not sure that's healthy. I agree with Zobo when she says we should never forget those lessons.

 

[brinkster130]

I am not from the South, but I do have family there and I have spent a lot of time there. I too was curious about the Confederate flag so I asked several people about it and in talking in length to numerous people I found that today the meaning of the Confederate flag goes beyond its sad and negative history.

What are your thoughts on the KKK, and what exactly does the Confederate flag have to do with it?

Sick. I think the KKK is sick. I'm sad I live in a world where people can be so hateful, disrespectful and brutal to one another. When a member of the KKK flies the Confederate flag we know exactly what their intentions are. The Klan uses the Confederate flag, Crosses and American flags but people who wear or hang crosses, or fly the American flag aren't questioned about being a white supremacist.

I understand why some view the Confederate flag as a symbol of hatred and racism; and that is completely understandable. My only point is that its not viewed that way by everybody. I think that is an important fact to acknowledge and that we should try and be respectful of others views rather than offending people.

---------- Post added at 12:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:29 AM ----------

I don't think it will ever be possible to separate the flag from that history and those attitudes, and moreover, I'm not sure that's healthy

I agree with you here. I don't think it will ever be possible to look at the Confederate flag and not see its history; at least I know I am not able to look at it without seeing the history.

 

[zobothehobo]

I agree with you here. I don't think it will ever be possible to look at the Confederate flag and not see its history; at least I know I am not able to look at it without seeing the history.

And I don't think we should try. By saying it's looked at as a symbol of the Civil War and Confederacy only by some and by others just a symbol of the region, you're acknowledging some do separate it and some people do look at the Confederate flag and not see it's history. That is sad. I don't think we should be trying to get people to be accepting of the confederate flag by saying it's not a symbol of the Civil War and slavery. I think we should be reminding people that it is a symbol of all of those terrible things and we should look at it and remember the awful events and reasons for which that flag exists. By separating the flag from it's history and origins, I feel you're glossing over those origins and that history and pretending it doesn't exist.

 

[brinkster130]

And I don't think we should try. By saying it's looked at as a symbol of the Civil War and Confederacy only by some and by others just a symbol of the region, you're acknowledging some do separate it and some people do look at the Confederate flag and not see it's history. That is sad. I don't think we should be trying to get people to be accepting of the confederate flag by saying it's not a symbol of the Civil War and slavery. I think we should be reminding people that it is a symbol of all of those terrible things and we should look at it and remember the awful events and reasons for which that flag exists. By separating the flag from it's history and origins, I feel you're glossing over those origins and that history and pretending it doesn't exist.

Thats fair. I don't think the history should be forgotten or glossed over. But that is not a battle I'm going to fight; if people can separate it then that is their personal decision and I am going to respect that. Like I said when this issue was first raised, I don't have a Confederate flag nor do I fly one. I only pointed out that not everyone who accepts the Confederate flag as a symbol of the South is a hillbilly idiot.

 

[zobothehobo]

Thats fair. I don't think the history should be forgotten or glossed over. But that is not a battle I'm going to fight; if people can separate it then that is their personal decision and I am going to respect that. Like I said when this issue was first raised, I don't have a Confederate flag nor do I fly one. I only pointed out that not everyone who accepts the Confederate flag as a symbol of the South is a hillbilly idiot.

As I said, I don't think EVERYONE who flies a confederate flag is a hillbilly idiot. My phrasing was really harsh to illustrate my extreme hate for that flag. Also most people who I personally have spoken to and who have defended the flying of the flag I would categorize as a hillbilly idiot.

Also if someone can separate the flag from it's history, I think they need to remind themselves of the horrible history. It's a personal decision, but in this case there is a right and wrong.

 

[Willow My Love]

Just gonna make my quick social commentary and leave. Flying the Confederate flag in America, to me, is like flying the Nazi flag in Germany. Both represent a lot of deaths, wrongful imprisonment, and a dark time in the nation's history. Granted, what the Nazi's did was worse, but it's still incredibly offensive.

And I'm out of this topic.

 

[msfantastico87]

Interesting responses guys.

Now to tie this whole thing together (kind of) since it did go slightly off topic, (my fault!) I'd like to ask one very serious questions. Please refrain from saying anything hurtful and try to be respectful.

Do you pledge? Some do and some don't. It seems to me like a lot of people of a problem with the "Under God" portion, including myself. Now, My question to you is, do you think, had we kept the confederate flag and made that the American Flag, do you think people would pledge allegiance to it? Considering the dark times it represents, do you think in today's views and opinions, it would be acceptable to pledge to it, if the American flag had yet existed?

 

[brinkster130]

Now, My question to you is, do you think, had we kept the confederate flag and made that the American Flag, do you think people would pledge allegiance to it? Considering the dark times it represents, do you think in today's views and opinions, it would be acceptable to pledge to it, if the American flag had yet existed?

Personally, I don't think making the Confederate flag the American flag would have ever worked. People have very different opinions about it and I think it would cause more division among our country. If the American flag never existed and they tried to make the Confederate flag the American flag, I don't know that that would have been widely accepted. I can't see it actually being pledged to and I personally wouldn't pledge to the Confederate flag.

Just throwing a little random fact out there: The American flag was flown on all the ships that were used to transport slaves to the US. 🙁

 

[Ianigsy]

It's a while since I read any American history, but I thought that the Confederacy wanted to be a separate grouping of states on a similar but looser basis to the Union, not to replace it. So you would have been a citizen of one or the other- how things would have developed in the 150 years following the Civil War if the South hadn't been defeated is anybody's guess, not least how long the CSA would have maintained slavery.

 

[zobothehobo]

I think if they ever tried to make the confederate flag America's flag shit would go down. I mean they wouldn't be able to do it. Because of everything it represents. But if they were able to do it, hell to the no. I would NEVER pledge my allegiance to a flag that represents slavery. NEVER.

 

[This Year's Girl]

This is a interesting discussion to read, about the Confederate flag. I don't have knowledge of american history, so I can really say anything in the matter. But I'm learning a lot about the different views reading, which is fun! It seems to be a subject that is still debated quite a lot in the US, am I right?

And no, I don't pledge. 🙂 Can't say we have anything like it in Sweden. Sweden isn't a very patriotric country at all. I think it's a shame in some ways, I would at least like to celebrate the our national day more, it really isn't any celebration worth talking about at all now.

 

[jr243]

I live in England but the extent of my patriotism ( is that a word ? ) is being a big fan of tea and scones. I did wear an England football shirt to school once and got a detention for apparently being racist.

In terms of the pledge thing I would pledge because of the symbolism behind it or if you personally have a reason to be proud of your country but if it was for the sake of saying I lived on one bit of land instead of the other then it seems kind of pointless.

 

[Tueuse de Vampires]

Okay I don't get what the deal is with the pledge? Somebody mentioned respect to the people that founded America, but this pledge was made loong after that, even after the Civil war, and then twice altered, so why is it so important to you? I get why the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights still have to be learned by heart (even we had to learn that "we hold these truths to be self-evident"etc. part), but the pledge? Sorry, but that just seems sort of random to me. Especially the "one nation under god" part. In my opinion that really illustrates one of the things that is so very wrong with America. And I realize this is so off topic, but I'd just like to point out that Communism isn't evil. If you're scared of it, I don't think you really got the concept. This is something I wouldn't write into my visa application, but I think Communism is a good thing and we'd all be better off with it. And no, what the Soviet Union had wasn't Communism. It was an attempt at it, but a failed one.

Like IM already pointed out, we don't have anything like the Pledge in Germany. We're not very patriotic in general. Honestly, I don't think anyone would really care if people burned the German flag.
Another topic, however, is our equivalent to the Confederate flag, namely the 3rd Reich flag. Cos that's a) pretty illegal if you go around sporting that flag and b) so strongly associated with the part of history everone would like to forget over here that it does hold strong symbolism, in a negative way.
But we Germans mostly have a guilt complex anyway that keeps all forms of patriotism away.

 

[fly on the wall]

I did when I was in high school and earlier. Just because I didn't care either way, really. I dunno, it seemed to me that a lot of the kids that sat it out just did so because...well, because they were teenagers. This isn't meant as a jab to anyone who refused to pledge because I'm sure many had valid reasons for doing so...but in my experience, it seemed that these kids didn't really care either, they just wanted something to be against, you know?

I definitely don't think it's un-patriotic not to pledge. I don't particularly feel anything when I say the pledge and I think most of the reason is because it becomes part of your daily school routine. It's pretty meaningless after awhile, so I don't feel that refusing to say it means you hate your country or whatever.

 

[NY State of Mind]

Nope...i don't do the pledge lol...i've done it maybe in elementary when it was forced but still didn't take it seriously....i have a lot of issues with the country and question everything...doesn't mean i'm not a real American...if anything i'm more of a better American for wanting things to be better and not just settling



totally agree Zobo!!! 🙂

 

[charmedones193]

Do you pledge allegiance? I Did When I Was In Middle School
Do you think it is unpatriotic to not pledge allegiance? I Guess It Depends
Do you find it offensive if people don't do it? No