Do you think that Angel had every right to react the way he did?

A

Ali

Buffy>Big Bad
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I am talking about when he is so mad at Wesley for taking Connor and allowing him to get taken to another dimension that he tries to smother him with a pillow...:buble_eye
 
C'mon who wouldn't! I mean ok Angel was wrong but it was understandable after Angel gave Conner to him fully aware Angel was worried about what he was capable of, how do you justify that lack of trust..? It was in front of Wes what action Angel was taking to avoid hurting Conner, and i mean the prophesy well Wes shoulda confronted Angel about it with the others or wait till Cordy got back, not go behind his back, so i understand his fury.
 
Airam
Airam
thats what i woulda said.
maybe he did act wrong...but i'm with him all the way!! i mean, i've no experience with this, so i ask all the moms and dads to have their say, but i'm pretty sure that every parent in Angel's shows would have done exactly the same thing! he lost his son and he was betrayed by one of his best friends, someone he thought of as family.
i never understood why Wes just didn't go to the others with what he found and they could have worked together to save Connor...but then again, that wouldn't have made good television, and we would have never been introduced to the truly wonderful Vinnie! lol
 
Hell yeah, Angel reacted the right way. Wesley took away the only son he will ever have and let him get taken by the enemy. Angel had every right to react the way he did. The others though, shouldn't have shunned Wesley like that.
 
M
Mulder22
[No message]
I think that there is a real irony in that episode. Angel was infuriated at Wesley for making a decision "for Angel's own good" (well, actually for Angel's and Connor's) without giving him any say in the matter. Isn't that exactly what Angel himself did time and again in both BUFFY and ANGEL? Apparently, he didn't like being manipulated any more than anyone else did. And did he learn his lesson? No. He did the same exact thing again when he took over W&H, all on the pretext of manipulating everyone's memories "for Connor's best good."
 
White Avenger for curiositys sake give examples of this making desisions for the gang..?
Angel took over the firm and the reason he wipped his friends memories is because he didn't want them hurt so his enemies get to him, and Conner getting his mind altered, well what would you rather have a Conner who's psyco or a well adjusted boy..?
and i'll still say Wes was wrong.
 
yeah, what angel's vision said. i dont agree with his decision either, but when white avenger is saying that angel did the same thing to others as wesley did to him time and time again, i think the difference was (in at least some cases, i need more examples) that at least some of angel's decisions worked out for the best, while welsey's ended up getting angel's son taken away to be raised by holtz in a hell dimension.
 
Angel's vision said:
White Avenger for curiositys sake give examples of this making desisions for the gang..?
Angel took over the firm and the reason he wipped his friends memories is because he didn't want them hurt so his enemies get to him, and Conner getting his mind altered, well what would you rather have a Conner who's psyco or a well adjusted boy..?
and i'll still say Wes was wrong.
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I'm merely saying that the "wiping or altering someone's memory for their supposed own good" is a plot device greatly overused by Whedon and his writers to avoid cleaning up whatever current mess they find themselves in. Angel did it more than anyone else, but he wasn't the only one. I just thought it sort of fitting that Angel be on the recieving end for once.
 
Angel did it more than anyone else, but he wasn't the only one. I just thought it sort of fitting that Angel be on the recieving end for once.
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Angel did what more than anyone else..? get everyones memories altered or make desisions for the group..?

Angel did what he did (had reality altered) after Wes took the desision to take Conner.

But thanks for post! i get what your point was, except the above which i am seeking a clarification.

Maybe start a topic on why Angel "Manipulates things /makes decisions without consulting people"..? it deserves it's own thread!
 
Angel's vision said:
Angel did what more than anyone else..? get everyones memories altered or make desisions for the group..?

Angel did what he did (had reality altered) after Wes took the desision to take Conner.
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Making decisions which affect others, without consulting them, is a common thing for Angel.

Leaving Buffy, moving into the hotel, joining wolfram and hart..there are many others.
 
Dzhugashvili said:
Making decisions which affect others, without consulting them, is a common thing for Angel.

Leaving Buffy, moving into the hotel, joining wolfram and hart..there are many others.
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Omg I dont believe I am doing this... But I actually agree with you! :scared20: The world is coming to an end!!!!
 
SlayersDestiny said:
Omg I dont believe I am doing this... But I actually agree with you! :scared20: The world is coming to an end!!!!
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Some people have difficulty making a distinction between my opinion, and the way I express that opinion. I don't think I say anything that's 'out there'.

And the world ended a long time ago, you are just an echo.
 
I think what he did was wrong. Wesley was doing what was best for Connor, so Angel should be thanking him. But also, I can see why he was mad.
 
Angel should not be thanking him, to take someones kid away and not trust em or help them with the situation, like wes did is not on.Honesty was needed on both sides.
Angel gave Conner to Wes to stop himself from harming him, because he was worried about hurting Conner.Angel was wrong to try and strangle Wes true but i can't blame him.
 
WHat do you expect! He's a father! If someone took your child away wouldn't you try to kill them? So I guess I can understand Angels actions. But also, I can understand Wesleys actions as well. If Wesley would have told Angel the truth, Angel wouldn't have let Connor go and the prophecy probably would of had a good chance of being fulfilled.
 
A
Angel's vision
well put although If Wes had told Angel the truth ,i doubt Conner would of been taken., both would of worked together to stop the prophesy from being fullfilled suerly..?
Yes...and no. Wes meant well, but I could not understand why he didn't tell the gang, and minus angel..Angel did have a right to be upset..but let's not forget angel hasn't exactly been honest, and he has done things that he had thought was right at the time, that ended up exploding in his face..Like trying to lose his soul with darla, leaving the gang, etc..and they forgave him, especially wes seemed to be the first one to forgive him, and be right at his side..I just feel that angel does not have a problem manipulating other people (meeting with buffy, erasing the gang's memory)..I honestly feel that he did not erase it for their good at all..but for connor's..which if you are a parent there is nothing wrong with that..but if you are like angel, and a champion those feelings cannot get in the way..sorry off track..I wasn't that upset over angel not talking to wes..but more at cordy and gunn..I was completely suprised she didn't side with wes slightly..or understand his position..it was like everyone mindlessly agreed..because he was the boss..that did not make any sense to me at all.
 
drtroy said:
leaving the gang, etc..and they forgave him, especially wes seemed to be the first one to forgive him, and be right at his side
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wasnt wes one of the hardest ones on him when he was coming back to the group?

WESLEY: This won't be easy for any of us, Angel. You're going to have to change your behavior, engage your co-workers from time to time. Be sensitive to their feelings, their opinions, especially before you take some action one might construe as, oh, let's just call it insane. It goes a long way to show you appreciate and respect them. (Pauses) This is torture for you, isn't it?
ANGEL: Yes.
WESLEY: Good. I think that's all for now.
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ANGEL: Yeah, uh, to say, you know, 'thanks.' Um, 'Sorry about the migraines.' Um, you know, 'I appreciate you?'
Wesley: Yes, by all means. And uh, while you're at it pick me up one of those 'sorry you were shot in the gut' bouquets.
ANGEL: Right. Sorry.
WESLEY: You can't buy back her trust, Angel, or her affections.
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drtroy said:
it was like everyone mindlessly agreed..because he was the boss..that did not make any sense to me at all.
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fred kind of tried to stand up for him at first, when she found out why he did what he did, if thats in anyway relevant to what you're saying.
 
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