EB
You seem to be either backtracking or making the same points over so i'm not gonna quote everything you said else we'll have essays on our hands lol!
I'm gonna continue in this format, if you don't mind, because it actually makes it easier for me to address each point at 1am - plus, I think we've already got essays (look at this post of yours! LOL).
Where am I backtracking?
I asked you not to make my arguments.
You then brought proof.
I merely showed how you misinterpreted that.
The Networks and the Advertisers are two very separate entities - one will make money from things like 'Hulu', the other won't.
I watch a fair bit of Hulu and I see the adverts they use, the revenus generators. Instead of the big companies like Coke, McDonalds and such, I see ones for 'Lowes' and this afternoon a fun advert for a mop!
On your first point, thats what i was referring to. Hulu and Itunes, at the moment, do didlly squat financially for the advertisers. We've already determined that the advertisers are the money behind the show, FOX is the business. When I say the internet does didlly squat in terms of financial revenue, im making a point you made yourself (money). I wasn't making false arguments (to be fair, I thought we've had enough of these fairly civilised discussions for you not to play that card on me). But that point still stands then, if the internet isnt enough of an impact, then advertisers want to see real results when it comes to timeslots. Evidently the internet does have an impact else we wouldnt have a renewal but ill go into that later.
I 'played that card' because, in fairness it seemed like you were putting words in my mouth. I would call anyone on that, and I absolutely expect you would do the same.
I have never stated that FOX don't make nothing from the internet, I've only said that they don't make enough to do away with the advertisers. That is fact.
Obviously FOX have found a way to make this viable for a second season, which means that they will do business that is beneficial to them, and that means having it on in the same timeslot.
Im certinaly not arguing that FOX is'nt successful...where do you get that? I'm arguing that FOX isn't flawless, that they make regular mistakes. Putting a show as 'popular' (read...internet numbers) as Dollhouse in a timeslot that is proven to get a 1.0 should smack you sideways with the obvious fact that something is wrong. At least for the sake of the 'precious' advertisers.
I was on Hulu the other day and while waiting for a show to load, I got a message on my screen.
It said something along the lines of, 'You have an invisible IP, please make your IP visible to watch this show.
If your IP is visible, contact Hulu, we will look into the issue.'
Obviously, because I am not doing anything illegal, I sorted it out, but that tells me that Hulu (and others) is looking at the work arounds people are using to watch it from other countries.
Now, at the moment these great numbers are good, but what do they actually mean?
I expect, before the next season starts, certain things like 'Hotspot Shield' will be defunked. This will then be used to see the better figures.
I would also wager that the Networks are meeting to see how they can make money from the other areas, and more importantly, how the advertisers can get a piece of it too.
There is potential in this medium, but at the moment the figures cannot be relied on to be truthful because of the work arounds that do not benefit them.
Hulu's stat handling is done by Google Analytics which I can say definitively displays unique connections as well as overall. iTunes is done by revenue since every click is charged.
OK, but even then, that doesn't change the fact that people can watch these shows from other countries. This is not in anyway the demographic anyone wants at this time and in this situation.
Yes the show was under threat. In a recent interview with Joss, he was explaining just how shocked he was that he got a second season. Every other cast member has seemed to twitter to the same effect.
I've not read that interview, so I shall take your word on it - but Joss being shocked, doesn't mean that behind closed doors, the networks were planning to not renew, unless we actually have that in comment from someone who actually knows, somewhere.
I would argue that the very reason were having this discussion is, yes, because you dislike the show. Afterall, at least to most of us, a measly 3.0 descending to a pitiful 1.0 in timeslot yet a weekly record DVR and internet top hits tells us a differnt picture.
And what would your basis for that argument be?
I haven't said anything negative about the show (except for one comment about the renewal might be the mistake - but thats hardly out of line of the conversation), just simply argued that whatever is happening is happening because the people who work in this stuff everyday have made this decision for whatever reason. There is no obligation to renew a show, but they have done.
Thats it.
Your last point I completely agree with. FOX is defiantly at the forefront of understand how the future of TV is played out (ironically, this is the same point ive been making for quite awhile where you have told me its "too soon")...feel free to accuse me again on that one. I appreciate FOX's ability to see the finacial rewards in investing in a show like Dollhouse...but dont expect me not to point out the obvious that renewing a 1.0 demo show and doing nothing about it will yield precisely the same results.... a second season of a 1.0 show.
Don't get shirty because if you look back over the conversation, you will see that you took one of my comments on another post and made it out to support the comment you made, when in essense it was about the advertisers not the Networks.
But yes, I have argued that it is probably too soon. Still seems like it is. Its too soon to know what impact the DVR's and Onlines will have on a show, because they still aren't conclusive proof.
FOX have taken a punt on using Dollhouse again to test this and not another show.
I've argued that the Internet is the way forward, but until the advertisers are brought on board, there is still an issue. The biggest money for the shows come from the advertisers, thats fact.
FOX are possibly testing the waters using this show to see how well it would do, banking on the 'fact' that they will recoup money from the DVD's.
