Dollhouse rewatch (s2); "The Public Eye" and "The Left Hand"

[Taake]

Rewatch discussion
"The Public Eye" and "The Left Hand"
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Drama! What a packed episode the Public Eye is!

I love having both Alexis Denisof and Summer Glau on the show. Alexis is perfect as the tidy politican and Glau well... Bennett is scary.

I really love the reveal that it's Daniel Perrin and not his wife who is the Doll. Perfect twist. Also "ehm, Echo just kidnapped the conspiracy!" 🙂

As for Paul in this episode he really shows how utterly naive he is. When he talks to Harding and later when he finds out that Madeline still has active architecture.

"No one ever really leaves here do they?"

Eh,, d'uh!

Also, more Adelle love - "Oh please, she didn't kill you" - Olivia Williams is flawless


"The Left Hand";
Bennett's psycho.... Just saying. That said I totally want her and Topher to have little genius babies together 🙂 How could you not melt for a line like "your skin is like a pig"

Enver as Topher. Again, seriously, why is he not a superstar!? He is so good! The voice, the gestures.... The everything!

More love for Adelle here.

Yikes, I would NOT want to cut something out of me with a steak knife...

Is it bad that I don't really mind that Daniel ends up killing his wife? She was just so nasty to him when not in character...

In the previous episode I was a little impatient with Madeline (yes the Dollhouse preyed on her but claiming that they "stole" years of her life is a bit rich. She signed the contract.) but here... Oh how I ache for her at the end. Poor girl!

Favorite line; "I'm already working I wouldn't hold your breath on the shutting up"


Overall;
This is when the season starts to speed up, understandably, but regrettably. I wish they'd had three seasons because what's to come really should get to develop over far longer time,

 

[sk]

Yeah, things are really starting to get going now. Two great episodes that, again, proofs how much better the show is when they are not doing a random imprint story.

The Public Eye

Fun to see Maurissa Tancharoen herself as a doll.
Topher is brilliant but far from perfect. "Make that a 50 foot radius" when another doll falls down the stair. It's so bad that I laughed at that.

Loved the silent when Ballard wondered why Madeline would be affected by Topher's device.
They looked a bit embarrassed. lol

Can't believe that I had forgot about the twist with Senator Perrin.

Bennet is seriously scary. Always good to see Summer Glau.

The Left Hand

Ah, the Enver as Topher episode. Absolutely brilliant. 🙂
The voice is perfect. Did Kranz overdub it? It's sounds like it. lol

Favourite moment is probably the meeting between Topher and Bennet. So awkward and funny.

So, what did Caroline do to Bennet?
Looking forward to get my memory refreshed about that.

/SK

 

[Fuffy Baith]

'The Public Eye'
I really like this episode. Love Adele and everyone telling her she has a soft spot. I think that's what makes Adele great. She has no moral problems with the idea of the Dollhouse but that doesn't mean she's not concerned for the dolls. And like we saw last week, she does have some morals. I think that she sees it as a business agreement. They volunteer and are fully aware that their bodies will be used, so in that sense she doesn't see anything wrong. It's doing things, like permanent imprints and rape, that she's not ok with because they did not consent to that.

I enjoyed the scene in the hotel with Perrin and the hooker. I just thought their reactions to each other were entertaining. Also "When are we going to get naked again?"
I love the reveal of Perrin as a doll, I was so shocked the first time I saw it.

So I really like that they have been giving Paul Ballard stuff to do that isn't obsessing over Caroline this season. Where ever he is doing FBI type stuff I really enjoy his character. Also like Adele showing him the video of Mellie killing Hearn.

So did Paul really think coming up from behind and putting his hand over Madeline's face would make her trust him? Love the look on Paul's face when she says she knows exactly what he did to her. I'm glad he told her the truth that he didn't know she was a doll, that would have really bugged me. Madeline continues to seem like a bitch. Who says 'I'm free, I can make mistakes' then goes off to make a mistake and doesn't listen to a word Paul says. She is very naive and stupid. I want Mellie back. Is it bad that I want them to permanently imprint Mellie into her when I wasn't ok with it last week with Sierra/Pria?

I love that the Washington DC Dollhouse uses Greek god names for their actives. It fits with Perrins wife calling Bennett god, I guess. Bennett is definitely a little off. The ending was great, makes you want to watch the next episode immediately to find out what's going on with Bennett and Caroline.

(Also side note, I just discovered from watching the movie 'Locked In' that Eliza has a tattoo on her side just below her right breast. I was looking for it when she was on the bed in the hotel. It's brief but you can see a little bit of it sticking out. I didn't realize she had so many tattoos.)

 

[Blaze]

Discussion 1:

I love Daniel. For some reason he is that Paul that should have been. Can't believe they're not doing anything about Echo evolving, the beginning of the episode should be a pretty big clue that she could become dangerous, she's much too aware. I see why Boyd and Paul aren't doing something, but surely Echo and Adele are aware of this.

Madeleine's character seems to be a bit all over the place. The phrase "No one ever leaves here, do they?" was well delivered. I like Paul much more when he's on his own and not with Echo.

I saw the twist coming as soon as they said the wife was a doll. I didn't remember the actual twist but I knew there would be something wrong with the Senator.

It's also kind of messed up that they brushed over the fact that they made a doll rape another doll. Like, really messed up.

I loved the political aspect of this episode. Really it's sort of genius, bring down you own evil corporation to gain even more power.

What an ending, Bennett is nuts and I love it! Poor Caroline/Echo.

 

[Fuffy Baith]

'The Left Hand'
Another great episode. The scene in the limo was nice, it's always good to see Topher interact outside the Dollhouse.
So I love Adele 'bluffing' and threatening that guy! That was great.
Even though Bennett is crazy, I like the idea that she knew Caroline and that's the reason for her arm. And she does have a point about Caroline/Echo getting to people. That's really a big part of the show. Alpha, Paul even Adele.
So what the hell happened to Paul?
I really liked the scene outside when Perrin is questioning his memories and they decide to run off and be who they want to be. It almost looked like they were going to kiss. But they didn't. Cuz nobody wants to see Wesley and Faith kissing. lol
I'm a little confused by the ending. Did Perrin go back to get reprogrammed or was that the real him at the hearing? What is Bennett doing with Madeline?

Bennett's psycho.... Just saying. That said I totally want her and Topher to have little genius babies together 🙂 How could you not melt for a line like "your skin is like a pig"

Great line! Love that Topher and Bennett are like star struck meeting each other and how awkward they are. It was funny that they were working back to back on the same thing but with their own hidden agendas.

Enver as Topher. Again, seriously, why is he not a superstar!? He is so good! The voice, the gestures.... The everything!

Right! Enver as Topher is brillant!

Is it bad that I don't really mind that Daniel ends up killing his wife? She was just so nasty to him when not in character...

[/QUOTE] No, I was happy she died. She was an annoying bitch and the things she said to him, totally unnecessary.

 

[Blaze]

'The Public Eye'
So did Paul really think coming up from behind and putting his hand over Madeline's face would make her trust him? Love the look on Paul's face when she says she knows exactly what he did to her. I'm glad he told her the truth that he didn't know she was a doll, that would have really bugged me. Madeline continues to seem like a bitch. Who says 'I'm free, I can make mistakes' then goes off to make a mistake and doesn't listen to a word Paul says. She is very naive and stupid. I want Mellie back. Is it bad that I want them to permanently imprint Mellie into her when I wasn't ok with it last week with Sierra/Pria?

You just made me realize why I suddenly dislike Madeline's character, it's because she's not Mellie. I keep expecting her to be this sweet and nice person and she's just kind of...annoying. I'm in favor of bringing back Mellie!

 

[Taake]

You just made me realize why I suddenly dislike Madeline's character, it's because she's not Mellie. I keep expecting her to be this sweet and nice person and she's just kind of...annoying. I'm in favor of bringing back Mellie!

Agree, Madeline kind of grates me. She just... doesn't seem all that pleasant.

Although it makes me appreciate how head-twisting that must for Paul who knew her intimately. It would be really hard to disassociate the person you thought you knew from the real person wearing their face. 

It's also kind of messed up that they brushed over the fact that they made a doll rape another doll. Like, really messed up.

What an ending, Bennett is nuts and I love it! Poor Caroline/Echo.

You know they brushed over that so well that I didn't even really think about it. That is really messed up. Although I suppose at this morally gray area of the show we are already so aware of what the Dollhouse are willing to do (steal your body forever) that these things are 'peanuts' comparatively if you know what I mean.

The ending (and start of next episode) made me wonder - how much of that kind of 'shock therapy' so to speak can Echo take before being seriously damaged? I mean, it seems like that wouldn't really be the sort of thing you can just brush yourself off and walk away from...

 

[Fuffy Baith]

It's also kind of messed up that they brushed over the fact that they made a doll rape another doll. Like, really messed up.

Are you talking about them drugging Perrin and sleeping with prostitute Echo? At the time they didn't know he was a doll and with everything that happened afterwards it's just not something they were concerned with. Or was there another rape that I missed?

 

[Blaze]

Are you talking about them drugging Perrin and sleeping with prostitute Echo? At the time they didn't know he was a doll and with everything that happened afterwards it's just not something they were concerned with. Or was there another rape that I missed?

This is the one I was talking about. I guess it doesn't matter much that Perrin is a doll or not, either way they raped the person that was in Perrin's body. It's such a gray area, does it make it worst, or better that he's a doll?

I guess you can say that no dolls can give consent anyhow so every time they have sex it's a form of rape. But at least in accordance to their personality at the time (which comes back to whether or not an imprint is a real person, I'm inclined to say yes), they are saying yes to sex. With Perrin, he didn't say yes no matter what, not as a doll, and not as a person.

I'm a bit surprise that Adele went ahead with this. We've seen that she's at least moral enough to be against doing things like that. You're right though, it's probably just something they weren't concerned about according to the circumstances. 

Agree, Madeline kind of grates me. She just... doesn't seem all that pleasant.

Although it makes me appreciate how head-twisting that must for Paul who knew her intimately. It would be really hard to disassociate the person you thought you knew from the real person wearing their face.

This is one instance where I actually feel bad for Paul (surprising, I know, considering my dislike for him 😛). If I have a hard time dissociating Madeline and Mellie, must not be easy for Paul! I can't decide if the actress is really good, or bad, for making me feel that way. I feel like there isn't a definite cut line between the characters like there should be, or like there would be with a different actor, but the line is definitely there somewhere if I feel this way.

 

[Fuffy Baith]

This is the one I was talking about. I guess it doesn't matter much that Perrin is a doll or not, either way they raped the person that was in Perrin's body. It's such a gray area, does it make it worst, or better that he's a doll?

I guess you can say that no dolls can give consent anyhow so every time they have sex it's a form of rape. But at least in accordance to their personality at the time (which comes back to whether or not an imprint is a real person, I'm inclined to say yes), they are saying yes to sex. With Perrin, he didn't say yes no matter what, not as a doll, and not as a person.

I'm a bit surprise that Adele went ahead with this. We've seen that she's at least moral enough to be against doing things like that. You're right though, it's probably just something they weren't concerned about according to the circumstances.

Well Perrin is a doll version of himself. I don't know if that makes it better or worse but he definitely did not give consent given that he was drugged. Whether or not imprinted dolls can give consent is a whole other issue. It is a little odd that Adele is ok with this but I think she was thinking, 'we're going to blackmail the senator' not 'were going to rape the senator'. I think the means by which she had to blackmail him was irrelevant to her. What she could have done was just tricked Perrin into thinking that it was real and there was something on the tape, but I guess they needed proof. Idk. But yea they immediately had another problem to deal with so it was just glossed over.

 

[Ethan Reigns]

Mind control has come a long way since Willow and Tara. I kept waiting for Adele or Topher to be revealed as a doll - that would have made sense. After all, Whiskey was their doctor, so they had no problem with the concept of a doll employee being loaded with specialized capabilities that were used in-house. When everything is either forbidden or compulsory there is no morality. The concept just doesn't apply.

 

[Taake]

This is one instance where I actually feel bad for Paul (surprising, I know, considering my dislike for him 😛). If I have a hard time dissociating Madeline and Mellie, must not be easy for Paul! I can't decide if the actress is really good, or bad, for making me feel that way. I feel like there isn't a definite cut line between the characters like there should be, or like there would be with a different actor, but the line is definitely there somewhere if I feel this way.

Haha, this is hilarious, because posting and thinking about the Mellie/Madeline thing I feel bad for Paul... BUT then I start thinking about how his knowledge about Madeline/Mellie really should dissuade him from any sort of infatuation etc with Echo because he knows that she's not Caroline! I mean sure, the heart wants what the heart wants - but would he really want to feel like that again? Say Caroline (and only Caroline) got back into her own body - does she really seem like she would better tolerate than Madeline some strange man who's had some sort of relationship with her alter-ego? I mean, he's all about "finding" Caroline but lets not forget - he doesn't know Caroline, he knows/likes Echo, so I find it really hard to believe he's doing it for Caroline the person. He's doing it for Caroline 'the vision' that he has of her. And while nothing has happened between him and Echo yet, physically, I still find his attraction/obsession with her very unsettling because of this.

 

[Blaze]

For the second episode now! Adele is so badass in this one, I love that woman!

Also, is it bad that I find Topher and Bennett almost cute together? They are nerding so hard haha. To be fair I would too ( as I'm writing this post in my lab 😛). I laughed "I'm concerned that you just tried to taze me", hilarious!

Victor as Topher is priceless. So, so good!

Bennett is such a sociopath! But I feel bad for her still, Caroline was highly unlikable here. I'm liking Echo more and more, and hating Caroline more and more. Honestly, at this point I just don't want Caroline to come back, I want Echo to keep evolving and becoming her own person. One thing s2 does well is that the viewers get to grow attached to Echo because she's no longer "just a doll". I think we can now identify Echo, in a way she represents how people might be lost and might not know who they are, but can still have power over their life. Thank you Joss for another one of your metaphors.

Also, Paul is a shitty handler. What's up with him having a hissy fit about his moral values and just leaving. He just put every one in even more dangers by doing that.

What an ending, I can't believe the senator didn't choose Echo. And poor Madeleine.

 

[Fuffy Baith]

Haha, this is hilarious, because posting and thinking about the Mellie/Madeline thing I feel bad for Paul... BUT then I start thinking about how his knowledge about Madeline/Mellie really should dissuade him from any sort of infatuation etc with Echo because he knows that she's not Caroline! I mean sure, the heart wants what the heart wants - but would he really want to feel like that again? Say Caroline (and only Caroline) got back into her own body - does she really seem like she would better tolerate than Madeline some strange man who's had some sort of relationship with her alter-ego? I mean, he's all about "finding" Caroline but lets not forget - he doesn't know Caroline, he knows/likes Echo, so I find it really hard to believe he's doing it for Caroline the person. He's doing it for Caroline 'the vision' that he has of her. And while nothing has happened between him and Echo yet, physically, I still find his attraction/obsession with her very unsettling because of this.

I think that the point is Paul is trying to save Caroline because she is the person born into that body and did not give consent to just go away and never come back. I think his reasons for saving Caroline are based on his morals. Now with what happened between him and Madeline he has to question his morals and we'll see where that takes him. But yes after seeing what happened with Madeline he should not be having feeling for Echo. Maybe on paper Joss thought it was a good idea, but it did not translate on screen. It just comes across creepy.

 

[Blaze]

I really liked the scene outside when Perrin is questioning his memories and they decide to run off and be who they want to be. It almost looked like they were going to kiss. But they didn't. Cuz nobody wants to see Wesley and Faith kissing. lol
I'm a little confused by the ending. Did Perrin go back to get reprogrammed or was that the real him at the hearing? What is Bennett doing with Madeline.

That was a bit confusing, because we're lead to believe that Perrin fallows Echo. But from my understanding he didn't and Echo had to run away on her own. Perrin was therefore re-capture so it was the re-imprinted Perrin that delivered the speech. In the end, the Dollhouse got exactly what they wanted. Madeleine was in a way framed. Not sure what's going on at the end though, seems like she is becoming a doll again, but I'm not sure.

And for a bit it did seem like Wesley and Faith...um I mean Perrin and Echo were gonna kiss lol. The scene where they are taking out their chip had me all flashbacky because for some reason I kept just imagining Wes and Faith in that scene. Wonder what that ship would be called!

 

[Fuffy Baith]

That was a bit confusing, because we're lead to believe that Perrin fallows Echo. But from my understanding he didn't and Echo had to run away on her own. Perrin was therefore re-capture so it was the re-imprinted Perrin that delivered the speech. In the end, the Dollhouse got exactly what they wanted. Madeleine was in a way framed. Not sure what's going on at the end though, seems like she is becoming a doll again, but I'm not sure.

And for a bit it did seem like Wesley and Faith...um I mean Perrin and Echo were gonna kiss lol. The scene where they are taking out their chip had me all flashbacky because for some reason I kept just imagining Wes and Faith in that scene. Wonder what that ship would be called!

So if Perrin wasn't captured and imprinted under the Dollhouse's influence then why did he give that speech? Is it because he didn't want to give the Dollhouse what they wanted? I'm still confused as to why either imprinted or not he didn't continue with the hearing to try to bring down the Dollhouse, like planned.

Yea it was little but of a flashback to Faith and Wes on Angel. But the thing that bothered me about that scene was the need for them to take off their shirts to take out a tiny gps in their necks that wasn't even bleeding like crazy. Seemed just like a reason to have that shot of Eliza's rack. Not complaining about them being shirtless, I actually thought Alexis looked good(considering I didn't expect him to), it just didn't seem necessary.

 

[Blaze]

So if Perrin wasn't captured and imprinted under the Dollhouse's influence then why did he give that speech? Is it because he didn't want to give the Dollhouse what they wanted? I'm still confused as to why either imprinted or not he didn't continue with the hearing to try to bring down the Dollhouse, like planned.

Sorry my post was a bit unclear, I meant that he was indeed captured. His speech made me assume that the dollhouse put in the whole story about the bomb, and he really believed it. From my understanding, the Dollhouse were never going to "frame" themselves or actually bring down their Dollhouse, they were always going to back away at the last minute. They were doing the whole thing to get the public behind Perrin. By doing this, they are diffusing any suspicion towards whether or not there is actually a Dollhouse, and as Adele put it, they are manufacturing a president. It's a win/win, Rosum will basically be in power of the whole country.

 

[Fuffy Baith]

Sorry my post was a bit unclear, I meant that he was indeed captured. His speech made me assume that the dollhouse put in the whole story about the bomb, and he really believed it. From my understanding, the Dollhouse were never going to "frame" themselves or actually bring down their Dollhouse, they were always going to back away at the last minute. They were doing the whole thing to get the public behind Perrin. By doing this, they are diffusing any suspicion towards whether or not there is actually a Dollhouse, and as Adele put it, they are manufacturing a president. It's a win/win, Rosum will basically be in power of the whole country.

Ok, that makes some sense. It didn't come across that way to me though. I can't remember if we ever see Perrin again or not.

 

[Blaze]

Ok, that makes some sense. It didn't come across that way to me though. I can't remember if we ever see Perrin again or not.

I can't recall either. What gave it away for me is at the end (I think?), Adele is talking with Boyd and Boyd says the other Dollhouse doesn't have Echo. Meaning that they do have Perrin. That, combine with the "manufacturing a president" talk, made it seem like Rosum got what they wanted in the end. I agree it's a bit ambiguous.

 

[Taake]

I don't think we see him again... but I can't recall either. I guess that's a good thing, we'll be surprised if it happens 😀