Eliza Dushku hunting animals

[Blondie Bear]

^ That's what I mean. Feelings that hunting is wrong are not instinctual because we are predators. Being a parent is instinctual in almost every other animal, with rare exceptions. We've bred that out of ourselves with the complete lack of selection pressure on us.

 

[Lou]

Rowan,

I don't know why you're getting so riled. I never said you were evil for hunting.
And I said the ANIMALS don't leave beer out to draw in people, I never said all hunters get drunk and go shooting. You're taking it all too personally as if it's an attack against YOU.
However, PEOPLE do drink and I used beer as a "bait" because it seemed more logical than a deer leaving a steak in a field to draw humans in.

The fact that there are good hunters and bad hunters IS the problem.
Some people do things in a respectful way. Some, do NOT.

I feel like I might have typed this before, but I am NOT upset about Eliza hunting. On the other hand, I have quite a few issues with many of my acquaintances and their practices.

If you're not shooting animals and hauling them to the burn pile because they annoy you that day, then cool down and try to understand that just because you're NOT one of those people doesn't mean that those people don't exist in your "hunting peer group". And you're likely to be associated with them often when you tell people you're a hunter.
Just like a teenaged movie star will get watched like a hawk waiting for them to get a drunk driving arrest or a rock star is assumed will be a drug addict. Stereotypes run in all circles, but there are reasons for them. Because what we hear about is the stories of people gone wrong. Those shocking and upsetting stories are what stick in people's memories and it's just how things work.

I'm sorry you don't see any valid points. That's up to you.

 

[Relic]

I was always under the preception that the only true instinct we have is suckeling; that blinking is just a reflex as is hunger, etc. etc. I'm not sure though and don't have any psychology books, just crummy community college memory!

My thoughts on hunting are just that, my thoughts. So in honor of the Willow speech in season three when they try to do an intervention on Buffy about Angel, I will try to stick to the we...or in this case I...statements.

I don't think I have an instinct to hunt, I have a reason to hunt

I would not do what Eliza did because I do not feel comfortable with my skills with a bow. (Unlike my Sisters husband, Robin Hood) I like archery but am not keen on the idea of possibly maiming something. I don't want my actions as a lover of nature to hurt something that is a part of it. (And interestingly enough, since I have alittle skill with hunting, I think if I did not hunt, with natures current circumstances pretaining, I would be hurting it.)

With a rifle, I would consider it, and have done it, but with a fair amount of reasoning giving me ample excuses 🙂 .

In the area in which I live, deer have no natural predators and their overpopulation has spread disease through their ranks (Chronic wasting disiease is a terrible sickness to see), as well as lead to deaths- both deer and human. An aquantance of mine hit one with a motorcycle recently, he lived through it but I'd be willing to wager he's an exception to that rule.

I'd like to think of myself as a conservationist that helps manage nature. Humanity has had an effect on the ecosystem, be you vegaterian or otherwise, that has altered the truelly wild, wild.

We have smarts and build things and run off dangerous predators and when Predataors are away, the prey will play. They will multiply....groundhogs will destroy the foundations of buildings, wascally wabbits will wavage your garden, squirells will chew up your telephone lines and screw up the dialup. Theres that whole health issue too as it pretains to sickness, back in the day it was rats/fleas and the plague, but in todays times it would be better known as lymes disease and rabbies.

There is the endangered turkey vulture who decides to graduate up from carcass picking and goes after your puppy or kitten because we are in effect making them fearless (and leagally I should't do squat because the bird is few...and protected... and pets are aplenty....but that vulture is going to be more than endangered if it tries to haul off Toby!)

And then there is the outcome like the old song "The cat came back" The part my first grade mind remembers says "The cat came back, it would not stay away, it was sitting on the porch the very next day" A cougar was shot in Chicago recently not that far from a grade school. It had migrated from the Black Hills with little problem because of the over abundance of prey; even in 'settled' areas.

I hunt for the meat, but to be honest our freezer is full of frozen pizzas. Our local lodges do stuff for the poor so I usually "donate the deer." I don't hunt for trophies either, when they take the deer they take it all. I hunt because i feel doing so makes it safer for both my family and the animals.

To answer the question posed afew pages back, thats basically why I hunt, not that I get to do so that often.

 

[Rowan Hawthorn]

Rowan,

I don't know why you're getting so riled. I never said you were evil for hunting.
And I said the ANIMALS don't leave beer out to draw in people, I never said all hunters get drunk and go shooting. You're taking it all too personally as if it's an attack against YOU.
However, PEOPLE do drink and I used beer as a "bait" because it seemed more logical than a deer leaving a steak in a field to draw humans in.

The fact that there are good hunters and bad hunters IS the problem.
Some people do things in a respectful way. Some, do NOT.

This is true...

I feel like I might have typed this before, but I am NOT upset about Eliza hunting. On the other hand, I have quite a few issues with many of my acquaintances and their practices.

If you're not shooting animals and hauling them to the burn pile because they annoy you that day, then cool down and try to understand that just because you're NOT one of those people doesn't mean that those people don't exist in your "hunting peer group". And you're likely to be associated with them often when you tell people you're a hunter.

That's the problem right there, and that's why I get riled about stuff like this. I want people to think about their opinions and attitudes: look, if I were to say, "Oh, look at that black dude driving down the street - he's probably into drugs and prostitution, 'cause listen to the kind of music he's playing," would that be acceptable? Then why is it acceptable to assume that someone who hunts, whether it's once a year or once a week, is the type of person who shoots cats and dogs in the neighborhood?

Just like a teenaged movie star will get watched like a hawk waiting for them to get a drunk driving arrest or a rock star is assumed will be a drug addict. Stereotypes run in all circles, but there are reasons for them.

Sure: because it's easier to pigeonhole people according to preconceived notions than it is to deal with people as individuals. I have both been there and done that. Got the T-shirt. And the coffeecup. And the... well, anyway, BTDT.

Because what we hear about is the stories of people gone wrong. Those shocking and upsetting stories are what stick in people's memories and it's just how things work.

That doesn't make it right. There have been lots of nasty things over the years that were "just how things work." You know what helps with that? Not letting things be "just the way things work." And that starts with pointing out the logical fallacies in their "common knowledge." I've been a working musician for thirty-five years. I used to ride a motorcycle everywhere. I wear long hair, a beard, and leathers (well, anyway, I did until the hair decided to desert the sinking ship...) I pack a pistol and know which end the bullet comes out of. I can offend both liberals and conservatives just by breathing. Sometimes I do it on purpose, just to make people think about their prejudices whether they want to or not.

 

[Lou]

You're right it DOES stink, but it also is the way of the world.

I sell on eBay. I work my BUTT off and bend ove backwards to make sure EVERYONE is happy. I slave like a dog for these people. Granted, I have great feedback, but is that enough?

NOPE.

When I tell people I sell on eBay I get stories out the whazoo. How eBay sellers WORK FOR eBay and are trained to steal and scam people.
I get to hear all the either personal horror stories or the ones on the news about how AWFUL eBay Sellers are and how they're all scam artists.
Think I like it? Nope.
I do what I can to change people's opinions, align myself with others that do also, and express my views to eBay whenever I can with suggestions and ways to go.

On the flip side, those eBay horror stories ARE TRUE! I can't just ask everyone on the planet to ignore them and continue to buy. That would be stupid of them and wrong of me.

The horror stories about the people who DO get drunk while hunting or hunt off season, hunt just to kill or even worse think it's funny to just wound an animal and bop off without a second thought, even Bambi.....those are all stories that people shouldn't just ignore or wipe out of their heads and assume every hunter they meet from then on is NOT one of "those people".

Barring vegetarians, even if the people don't WANT to hunt themselves, I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone who would REALLY say they think people should die rather than hunt or fish to feed themselves and their family. And even a few vegetarians I know wouldn't say that either.

Which brings us back to Sport vs Necessity.
Because the vast percentage of hunters aren't GOING to die of starvation if they don't hunt. It may come in handy, but they're not going to die. Eliza, probably gonna live and have a HEFTY Christmas dinner whether she does or doesn't kill a deer at Christmas.
When people think necessity, they think Beverly Hillbillies before they shot in the hole in the ground and got the "bubblin' crude". Not, "My freezer has extra meat now".
Not that now we all don't have to cut corners when we can, but for the most part that's not looked on as necessity.

So, when people are faced with the horror stories and looking at someone who they can clearly tell is NOT Jed Clampett they think.....hmmmmmm, perhaps they COULD be one of these people.
And, they very well COULD be!

No, it's not RIGHT to look at a teenaged star and expect them to go down the toilet. LOTS, if not most of them DO, but that doesn't mean they all do. We also know not all rockstars ARE drug addicts, but they are put in a lifestyle that attracts the element....if not them, personally, there's groupies and other people that hang around that do.

But, it IS the way of the world. Kind of like the urban legends that are made to scare people, they're social stories that are made to "warn you" about the evils that surround certain activites. It's not quite the same as profiling a person on how they look, especially race. That happens to, but it's more about the evils of activities more than a race.

I can certainly say I'm not going to be pushing my kids into auditions for being an actor.

But, you can't blame people for hearing these stories, being appaulled and saying, "Gee, that's HORRIBLE! I'm against it" but not saying anything about it. Just like I can't expect to tell people I sell on eBay and NOT hear them tell you about the horror stories they've had or heard about.

It may not be fair, but it's part of the group of people you're associated with. Just like the rest of us are parts of groups that sometimes do things that are less than ideal. (Heck, there's the ENTIRE COUNTRY of Sweden who has to deal with Kinslayer representing it!)

The GOOD news is, that most people are aware that these evils aren't absolute. That not ALL teenaged actors are going to be drunken, drugged up crazy people and not all rockstars are going to be smoking crack and not all hunters are out to randomly slaughter innocent animals for their jollies.
The bad news is, it's not going to go away. And, I'm not sure that it should.
It WOULD be bad if people didn't listen to the horror stories about eBay and weren't cautious. And it WOULD be bad if people just zipped their lips about their views on bad hunters or anything else.....if nothing else to let the other person know that if that happens to be the behavior their engaging in, it's frowned upon.

 

[Rowan Hawthorn]

You're right it DOES stink, but it also is the way of the world.

I doubt there's much you can tell me about the "ways of the world" that I haven't run into. I'm 52 - I grew up in the 60s and 70s. You know what helps to make ignorant prejudicial crap not be part of the world? Stop helping it out and start speaking out. Keeping quiet and letting it ride just lets it keep on rollin'.

I sell on eBay. I work my BUTT off and bend ove backwards to make sure EVERYONE is happy. I slave like a dog for these people. Granted, I have great feedback, but is that enough?

NOPE.

When I tell people I sell on eBay I get stories out the whazoo. How eBay sellers WORK FOR eBay and are trained to steal and scam people.
I get to hear all the either personal horror stories or the ones on the news about how AWFUL eBay Sellers are and how they're all scam artists.
Think I like it? Nope.
I do what I can to change people's opinions, align myself with others that do also, and express my views to eBay whenever I can with suggestions and ways to go.

Which is exactly what I'm doing.

On the flip side, those eBay horror stories ARE TRUE! I can't just ask everyone on the planet to ignore them and continue to buy. That would be stupid of them and wrong of me.

The horror stories about the people who DO get drunk while hunting or hunt off season, hunt just to kill or even worse think it's funny to just wound an animal and bop off without a second thought, even Bambi.....those are all stories that people shouldn't just ignore or wipe out of their heads and assume every hunter they meet from then on is NOT one of "those people".

So, then, what's your problem with other people assuming that you're one of "those people" on eBay? I mean, "innocent until proven guilty" doesn't just apply to popular people, the Kewl Kidz. I've pulled up to a grocery store on my motorcycle and watched women grab their children and slink off - and I grew up not a mile from that store, and everybody around there knew me. If I'd been driving a car, they wouldn't have turned a hair.

Barring vegetarians, even if the people don't WANT to hunt themselves, I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone who would REALLY say they think people should die rather than hunt or fish to feed themselves and their family. And even a few vegetarians I know wouldn't say that either.

Which brings us back to Sport vs Necessity.
Because the vast percentage of hunters aren't GOING to die of starvation if they don't hunt. It may come in handy, but they're not going to die. Eliza, probably gonna live and have a HEFTY Christmas dinner whether she does or doesn't kill a deer at Christmas.

For the last time, who the hell are you to decide that it's only okay to hunt if you're literally starving?

When people think necessity, they think Beverly Hillbillies before they shot in the hole in the ground and got the "bubblin' crude". Not, "My freezer has extra meat now".
Not that now we all don't have to cut corners when we can, but for the most part that's not looked on as necessity.

Y'know what? I don't give a damn who thinks it's "necessary". I don't tell other people what they can eat or how they can spend their money, what insane logic makes people think they have the right to decide that for me?

So, when people are faced with the horror stories and looking at someone who they can clearly tell is NOT Jed Clampett they think.....hmmmmmm, perhaps they COULD be one of these people.
And, they very well COULD be!

And you could very well be exactly the kind of cheat and swindler that people expect from eBayers. You could be the kind of person who would lock her children in the basement without food or water as punishment. You could be a lot of things, but I'll bet you'd like for people to not make those assumptions about you based on someone else's actions, wouldn't you?

No, it's not RIGHT to look at a teenaged star and expect them to go down the toilet. LOTS, if not most of them DO, but that doesn't mean they all do. We also know not all rockstars ARE drug addicts, but they are put in a lifestyle that attracts the element....if not them, personally, there's groupies and other people that hang around that do.

But, it IS the way of the world. Kind of like the urban legends that are made to scare people, they're social stories that are made to "warn you" about the evils that surround certain activites. It's not quite the same as profiling a person on how they look, especially race. That happens to, but it's more about the evils of activities more than a race.

The hell it's not. Rationalize it or excuse it any way you like, but it's no different from any other "They must be bad, 'cause they ain't like us" that you want to name. Prejudice is prejudice, and it may be convenient to blame the target of prejudice, but it's the people who spread it that are the guilty parties.

I can certainly say I'm not going to be pushing my kids into auditions for being an actor.

But, you can't blame people for hearing these stories, being appaulled and saying, "Gee, that's HORRIBLE! I'm against it" but not saying anything about it. Just like I can't expect to tell people I sell on eBay and NOT hear them tell you about the horror stories they've had or heard about.

It may not be fair, but it's part of the group of people you're associated with. Just like the rest of us are parts of groups that sometimes do things that are less than ideal. (Heck, there's the ENTIRE COUNTRY of Sweden who has to deal with Kinslayer representing it!)

Yeah, but the funny thing is, most people get upset if some slanderous twit insinuates that, say, Jews are engaged in a conspiracy to bankrupt America, Mexicans are lazy, Catholics all support the Mafia, or people who listen to rap music are all on the lookout for cops to kill and little girls to rape; they don't make excuses for the viewpoint - and they shouldn't. There was a saying back in the 60s: "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem."

The GOOD news is, that most people are aware that these evils aren't absolute. That not ALL teenaged actors are going to be drunken, drugged up crazy people and not all rockstars are going to be smoking crack and not all hunters are out to randomly slaughter innocent animals for their jollies.
The bad news is, it's not going to go away. And, I'm not sure that it should.
It WOULD be bad if people didn't listen to the horror stories about eBay and weren't cautious. And it WOULD be bad if people just zipped their lips about their views on bad hunters or anything else.....if nothing else to let the other person know that if that happens to be the behavior their engaging in, it's frowned upon.

You really don't comprehend in the least the difference between voicing views on bad actions by a few members of a group and propagating prejudicial stereotypes about the entire group, do you?

 

[kater]

This entire board has seriously gotten me riled up. My uncles hunt, and I've grown up knowing the difference between sport only hunters and what I would call true hunters. Let me explain the difference as I see it. Sport only (note the only) tend to be those who take trophys and leave the rest, which in my opinion isn't right. My uncles all hunt and my dad used to, and the main thing that makes me respect them is that they all eat what they kill. One of my uncles in particular would hunt anything that's in season, and that's from squirrels to raccoons to frogs, but in every case he eats the meat. He has also always donated to parks and in many cases has often sacrificed a prime kill to pick off an animal that some jerk hunter just maimed. To me, hunting while it is a sport, should be used to get extra meat. And believe me, there's nothing like elk or bear salami. Trophy only hunters are wasteful and could donate the meat if nothing else. And the ones that really bug me are the canned hunters, the ones who hunt drugged, fenced in animals. I think its the difference between people to take care of their dogs and those who abuse them, to say that owning a dog is wrong is essentially the same thing. The whole debate is essentially people who are responsible and those who aren't. To say they're the same is wrong and unfair. If you don't like hunting, don't do it. I don't like the way they raise veal (little dark boxes) but I choose to not eat veal rather than attack those who do. Even free range farming of cattle and other commonly eaten animals can be cruel, but that doesn't mean it always is. To me, meat is meat, I just have respect for those who kill their own, as long as it's done as humanely as possible.

 

[Lou]

CALM DOWN DUDE! AND READ what I am saying and perhaps you wouldn't even be so upset.

I DON'T THINK that all hunters HAVE to hunt for necessity. I DO NOT THINK THAT.
Is that clear enough? I'm WITH YOU ON THAT.

And I DO NOT think it's right that just because I sell on eBay I get bundled in with the "bad sellers". Nor do I think that ALL child stars end up drug addicts or that EVERYONE that falls into a category falls into the bad side of it.

So, STOP acting like that is what I'm saying. You may BE 52, but I'm 33 and not exactly a stupid kid. I'm out here in the world, raising children, paying bills and I'm certainly not so closed minded or naive to believe that everything is black and white.

But YOU shouldn't be so closed minded and naive to believe that when there are activities that people hear BAD THINGS about that they're going to look at someone and hear that they're part of this group and voice their disgust at those BAD THINGS! That's not prejudice, that's called conversation. If you're not part of the "bad element" it SHOULD be a rather calm conversation where you're both on the SAME SIDE!

When people start rambling on about bad eBay sellers and the people who scammed them or got scammed, I DON'T TAKE IT PERSONALLY! Why? Because I KNOW they aren't talking about ME!
And I also know they have a VALID REASON for being upset about the scams.
By the way, I DO speak out about it. I tell people how upset I am about the scams too. I tell them what things eBay is putting in place to stop it and what they can do if they get scammed.

You claim you're not one of these "bad hunters". Fine, I believe you. I've said that before.
You keep wanting to harp on the necessity part.....all I EVER was trying to say about that is that assuming you're NOT the Beverly Hillbillies....it's a SPORT. Something you CHOOSE to do. Not something you HAVE to do or you'll die. SOME PEOPLE believe you shouldn't kill a thing unless you HAVE to eat it or starve. NOT ME, again, but people. People I'm related to, in fact.

CHOOSING to do it doesn't make it BAD. Even if there are BAD people who choose to do it. Just like me CHOOSING to sell on eBay isn't BAD, even though plenty of other sellers ARE.
CHOOSING to hunt because you find it fun, relaxing, or an extra help on the grocery budget is NOT WRONG NOR does it make you bad and I never said it did, so please quit cursing at me about it.

Just as you say you're upset about the bad hunters, THAT is a lot of what gets people upset.
Sure, there are people who still may not agree with your choice...again, NOT ME, but people who just aren't pro-hunting.


And, it's not prejudice to realize that some things come with dangers or bad downsides and being careful to avoid them.
I know that MOST PEOPLE aren't child abusers, molesters, and kidnappers. HOWEVER, I'm not going to drop my 6 year old off at the store and go back for her later! Why? Because I know that SOME PEOPLE are dangerous and you can never tell where they are.

Now, where I don't have a problem with you're average hunter, I DO have a problem with some of them. As I've said, people who just shoot for kicks, shoot out of season, have NO intention of eating what they kill or shooting animals with overkill....like taking a shotgun to a bunny to watch it explode. They DO exist, I know some. I tell them I'm against it, I tell the GOOD hunters I know that I'm against it, if asked my opinion by the man on the sidewalk, I'd tell him too. That's not lumping EVERYONE in together, that's saying, "Gee, hunting...here's what I think is the right way and the wrong way"
I've said the kind of hunter that upsets me and what doesn't, you claim to be the kind that doesn't upset me and yet you're jumping on me anyway, like I'm a mindless twit who can't have an opinion. So, how CAN I be non-prejudiced in your mind?

I know my MOTHER was raised to believe in only killing something if you HAVE to eat it, not because you choose to eat it. She and her family might have issue with your hunting. I know a couple other people like that too.
I tried to explain that view to you and how these people see necessity and sport, you want to get upset and assume that it's ME.
Which makes only mildly amusing to see you turn around and tell ME not to lump all people in one group together and how NOT doing that will stop the ignorant prejudicial crap.
THIS IS ME speaking out, not lumping everyone together but saying what parts of hunting I find okay and what parts I find horribly distasteful. If I was the 10 year old twit you seem to think I am, I'd have just said, "I KNOW BAD HUNTERS....THEREFORE THEY'RE ALL BAD! EVEN THE ONES I KNOW THAT DON'T DO THE BAD STUFF"
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Edit:
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Added Note:
I thought I should add that I HAVE indeed walked my children the long way around in a parking lot to avoid motorcycles. But, NOT for the reasons you think.
For two reasons, but both stemming from the fact that my children are CHILDREN not that the biker is a biker and both would be fixed by said biker pulling up in a car.
1.) Don't want the kids to knock over the bike.
2.) Don't want the kids to TOUCH the bike's shiny pipes and get burnt. (Parent DO instinctively guide children away from exposed hot items.)
Just thought you might like to know that perhaps sometimes people are avoiding you for VALID reasons and not being judgemental about you, personally.

 

[Kemy]

Really? cool. I actually like her a little better now.

 

[Highlander]

This thread lightens my heart. I am new here and don't watch much TV so I was unfamiliar with Eliza before her being an object of scorn from PETA. I am a proud hunter and archer, in fact I am an archery coach and bow mechanic too.

First for all those who have posted on this thread, this has to be the best discussion on the subject of hunting I have seen on a non- hunting board. Thank You all for your input and questions.

Second, I would like to clarify some of the terminology being brought up. So bear with me while I rant.

Hunting is a sport in that those who do it choose to do it and 99.9% do it well and within the rules. Those that break the rules or leave the animal and take a "trophy" are what we call poachers since leaving a carcass is illegal in every state.

Sport Hunting as a term usually entails a costly adventure that may or may not allow you to return home with the meat of your kill. African safari is probably the best example of this. Hunters that go to Africa return home with just the trophy, not because they did not want the meat, but because the meat from their animals feeds the local tribes and the money the hunter spends for the hunt allows the nation they are hunting in to manage their wildlife in a sustainable manner.

Subsistence hunting is where a hunter directly consumes the meat within his circle of friends and family. The hunter may opt to have his animal mounted as a remembrance and to revere the memory of both the animal and the hunt. These same hunters donate thousands of pounds of venison to food banks and soup kitchens nationwide every year.

Rifle hunting compared to bow hunting. Although these are 2 vastly different methods to attain the same goal, they are the same in the process to reach that end goal. The senses of wildlife are accute and believe it or not a deer can smell you from over 500 yds(if the wind is blowing towards them) and a turkey can see you move from well over 100yds away even in a forest setting. Bow Hunting requires extra care because it is close in 20 to 40 yards on average, but rifle hunting still requires the same skills because you must penetrate within the range of these animals senses to make the most accurate shot.

Now for my favorite part. Archery as a sport, if you have not tried it(Archery, not bowhunting) it is by far the most challenging sport I have ever tried, because you have to eliminate muscles from your form in order to execute a perfect shot and you are often shooting at a spot on a target that is 1 inch in diameter and at ranges from 20 yds to nearly 100 yards. At the longer ranges the center circle is larger on spot targets (3in in diameter) but you are still aiming for an invisible one inch cirlce in the very center of the target. You can see a great archery shooter at you tube by searching Marksman 100% accurate. I cannot link because I have not made enough posts yet.


Thank You all for allowing my long winded, yet hopefully informative post.

 

[Blondie Bear]

^ I took archery at the community college for one of my P.E. credits. It was HARD. Not only to hit the target, but to pull the bow back (we used recurved bows) and not make a bloody, bruised mess out of your forearm.

 

[Highlander]

Then you know what I mean and the amount of practice required to maintain proper form from arrow to arrow. It is FUN though, wasn't it.

 

[Kemy]

Apart from the lack of facilities and funds, I think I'd be terrible at it. Which is unfortunate because I had thought about taking it up for a while, still I'm content to watch it on telly.

 

[Highlander]

Don't bet on not being able to take it up. New Zealand, Australia, South Africa, Canada all have implemented or are implementing National Archery in the Schools programs. I am sure you can find a place that could teach you, with equipment you can borrow. A cheap entry bow called the Genesis is a universal fit. As far as hunting goes, we get tons of hunters from England here, come on over.

 

[Buffanator]

Eeeeeek!!!! Eliza the Huntress!!!! :wow: Oh FAITH! - how COULD you?!?!?!? :no: Please say it was alllllll a misunderstanding!!! PLEASE FAITH! - stick to killing vampires! -and I don't mean vampire bats! :lmao:

Ok seriously, now. I am one of the biggest animal lovers you will ever meet. I hate the idea of hunting - whether it is for sport or for food or to protect the crops, or whatever. I just hate it.

On the other hand, I realize it's a necessity in some ways. I realize that not all hunters are "sport-only" hunters. And I realize that MEAT comes from ANIMALS. There is no "meat tree" to pick & choose from.

That being said, I am an animal lover who eats meat. Yes, I love Sparky & Fluffy, and Bambi & Thumper & all the little animals of the world... but my Heinz 57 is for BURGERS, not VEGGIES. And screw that soy crap! :sick:

I once tried to become a vegetarian, out of my sheer love & respect for animals & wildlife, but I grew up on a FARM. Beef, chicken, pork & fishing... it was all a part of my home life.

Now, PERSONALLY, I could NEVER kill an animal on purpose! - never never never! - if I'm starving, well, then, I'll just starve. Or find some nice grub worms to eat. But I would NOT kill an animal.

My brother is a hunter. Mostly deer - and he does it for SPORT. BUT... he gives the carcass to a group that uses deer meat to feed the poor & homeless. He doesn't keep "dead animals" on his wall as trophies. (God I can't STAND that! ick!!! Dead animal decoration... yeah, whatever!) And I know that the deer population (at least in N.E. Georgia) is waaaaayyyyyy much. I don't like the idea of any animal starving to death. OR being hit by a car. But that's just LIFE. People starve sometimes. So do animals. When animals interact in an area that man has made his, then getting hit by a car is inevitable. No, I don't like it. But that's the way it is. PERSONALLY, I would wreck my car to avoid hitting an animal. ANY animal. Deer, dog, wild hog, snake.

I don't eat deer. Or bunny, or snake or anything else *meaty* - only beef, chicken, pork & fish. And only if I buy it from the grocery store, because if I had to be reponsible for killing my own meat, then YEAH, I'D DEFINITELY BE A VEGAN!!! :crying2: As long as I don't *think about* what I'm eating used to be a living, breathing creature, then I'm OK & can enjoy my meal. But remind me that the cheeseburger I'm about to bite into was just "mooing" a couple weeks ago.... and I'd lose my appetite to eat it. :sad25: Hypocritical of me? Yeah, probably, but it's just the way I am.

As for other realms of the hunting world... I despise "big game hunters" - that is, those who kill tigers, elephant, etc. - especially anything that is endangered or threatened as a species! - and I have a special kind of hate for idiots who participate in CANNED HUNTS. I'd rather see the worst of the criminal world "released" & let the hunters have at those bastards! Strange... I don't like to see/know that the little animals are killed, but I have no problem with *bad humans* being slaughtered. I must have some wicked mojo genetic thing going on... :evillol:

And as for Eliza Dushku, I can't say that this knowledge doesn't bother me a bit :complain: ... I mean, I still think she's a great actress, & I will always love "Faith" - and I still look very forward to Dollhouse! ...

... but I think the reason it bothers me is not because she has killed an animal - & not because it's with a bow/arrow or whatever, but because I had a certain *IDEA* of her... of the kind of person she is, you know... that's she's *strong* & *her own woman* sort of thing... & this simply disappoints me... not because of the actual "hunting & killing" but because she basically admitted to doing it "for" her boyfriend. You know, to "impress him" ... at least, that's the IMPRESSION *I* got. :bluesad:

 

[white avenger]

... but I think the reason it bothers me is not because she has killed an animal - & not because it's with a bow/arrow or whatever, but because I had a certain *IDEA* of her... of the kind of person she is, you know... that's she's *strong* & *her own woman* sort of thing... & this simply disappoints me... not because of the actual "hunting & killing" but because she basically admitted to doing it "for" her boyfriend. You know, to "impress him" ... at least, that's the IMPRESSION *I* got. :bluesad:

I can't remember her exact words on the subject, but I definitely got the impression that Eliza went hunting with her boyfriend so that they could share the experience, which is completely different from doing it "for" him.

And as for being an animal lover, you don't hold exclusive rights on that title, and quite a few, most, in fact, hunters love and respect animals, probably as much or more than you do, and it might surprise you to know that each and every one of them contribute more money to wildlife care and management, affecting both game AND non game animals, including the care, protection, and the providing of habitat and protection for threatened and endangered species.

Cattle, pigs, and chickens are animals, and have just as much right to live as deer, rabbits, or quail. To accept the slaughter of one, and to enjoy the meat while condemning the killing and eating the meat of the other, simply because it is done with a bullet or an arrow, while condoning the death and consumption of the other just because it is done with a mallet between the eyes is both, to quote a famous Vulcan, both inconsistent and illogical.

Live long and prosper.

 

[Relic]

You know, I can see where that kind of mind-set comes from. People who thinks the same sits across from me at dinner everyday. Lets talk eating dogs....

There are simply some things people can not do, like me for instance. I would never shoot a fawn, even though some claim the meat tastes better. I'm sure there are things you could not, or would not prefer to do also. thats just human nature.

It is a persons choice if they want to make the kill, or just eat it and not think about it. Thats all I got from the post, not a hunters are bad kind of thing. You don't have to be a vegan to not enjoy...perhaps better said, not accept or want to understand the whole killing thing.

As far as hypocrits go, as i said earlier, I love nature and hunt to protect it. Wild dogs could be roaming the countryside and breeding and causing all sorts of mischief, and as much as I love nature, could I look down a scope and pull the trgger on one? No, I don't think so.

What I'm getting at is I understand the hypocrisy, and I think that might be too strong of a word. I understand the choice to compartmentalize, logic be darned.

Guess I'm more Kirk than Spock, actually more Scotty probably...maybe McCoy...

In the end it's not so much what your willing to do so much as why you do it. I realize that doesn't make much sense, this is just so hard to explain, and I'm doing a poor job of it.

Sorry for that.

 

[NightBird]

1) Any animal out there can see you, hear you, and smell you long before you can do the same to it. They're faster, more agile, stronger for their respective size and weight, and have their own built-in weapons. They can go places you can't (or, at any rate, with much less effort than you can,) and, with very few exceptions, can tear you a new @$$hole if you screw up and they turn on you.

The main issue I have is the use of a weapon, I know of no animal that has a ranged weapon.

If you wanted to creep through the woods, dive on a bucks back and choke it to death with your bear hands then I'd have no issue with it being fair.

I understand that you only take shots from around the 25 yard range but a animal has no way of defending itself from that range other than running, I don't think the fact that it's been unable to sense you makes it ok or fair to kill it.

I know it's taking the issue to a extreme but I don't see much of a difference between animals and humans, yes we have higher brain functions but that doesn't give us the right to kill things we are smarter than.

I mean, if an alien race came to earth and started 'hunting' humans i'm pretty sure that most hunters would have an issue with that.


In fact, thinking about it, I'd have much more 'fun' hunting hunters (no real ill will to anyone, just having fun) because they are equal to me, after all, stepping on ant holds no challenge.

 

[Relic]

Spitting Cobra+=ranged weapon, frogs with lariat tongue= the same, Monkeys/apes + Rocks = the same. Advantage is what you make it, and nature does it also.

Deer have antlers, if I was mountain biking during ruting season and a deer said "I'm going pwn that sucker"....well he has antlers and a muscle to fat ratio advantage, plus he's faster and meaner. Advantage = buck

To be honest, in the animal world nothing is fair about hunting, or mating, or anything of the like. We assign that nature to them....some in their defense deserve it. But ultimately, that is why their predators go for the weak/old or the very young.

For instance like this week, when a bear had to be put down at a camp for attacking a child..... it went after the thing with the least amount of precieved resistance.

Thats not the bears fault mind you, and I'm sad rangers put it down. People need to learn to respect nature not just because it is beautifull. It also can be dangerous. The child should have not been anywhere near a bear, short of a zoo..

I've turned my scope away from a doe, bet a mountain lion is not so picky 😉 And even with gun powder....maybe I'm just a poor hunter...but it has never been easy; and thats on a multitude of levels.

Maybe since I'm not a montain lion, I give the prey abit too long to respond when I try to judge its age and physical condition, if it has any tag alongs or not...a wide variety of other things.

Hunting hunters you say? That makes me worry. 🙁

 

[Highlander]

If you have never tried it, no one could rightly expect it to be understood in your mind so I won't waste your time or mine trying to paint a picture you cannot see in your minds eye. Suffice it to say, with the diverse nationalities posting on this thread, it is no surprise to see some opposed to hunting and some for it and others who don't care one way or another. The fact that Eliza has opened a dialog between such diverse people is a good thing and for or against, we here now have a better understanding of hunting and those opposed to it have shared their reasons. Like I said before, this has to be the most civil debate on hunting that I have seen on non hunting boards.