Eliza Introduces Bernie Sanders

[white avenger]

As a solid Conservative, I have to ask, where is the money going to come from for all of this "free" college education? I know that the first response is going to be, "Let's raise the taxes on big businesses," but the problem with that is, you're going to tax those big businesses right out of the country, to a place where they will get the tax breaks that they want, plus have no minimum wage requirements or benefit programs for their employees. Result: even fewer jobs here in the U S, more people jobless, more pay outs from Social Security and Unemployment, and higher taxes for the few people still lucky enough to remain employed.

Then there's the case for the instructors who will be administering this free education. The plan sounds great until you consider the fact that the best instructors are going to go where the highest paid salaries can be had, and a government paid job, with its lower salary and benefits is only going to attract those who are, at best, second rate in their fields of expertise. That means that this free education, which is being paid for by a smaller group of employed tax payers, is going to be, at best, only second rate, and is going to result in a job market flooded with second rate college educated young men and women who somehow have the idea that being a college graduate is going to somehow guarantee them a "top paying" job.

Sorry, Eliza, sorry, Bernie, you ain't getting my vote. Course, it's all rhetorical anyhow, cause we all know that Bill Clinton is going to be moving back into the White House as the first male First Lady on U S history.

 

[Fuffy Baith]

I have not been following politics and the election stuff. So the good thing about her speaking is that it got me to listen and start paying attention to what's going on.

people who aren't public speakers, really can't hide not being public speakers can they? Or maybe she should've just had someone else write her speech for

lol. Yea I didn't think her speech was great, and ill prepared. Not sure how much time she had to write it and practice it. I'm surprised any of it was written down, cause it sounded like she was just talking off the top of her head. Not that she didn't have good, important things to say. It's very much her personality (which is awesome) but in these cases you have to be more professional if you want people to take you seriously.

Politically: Free college education for all... sounds like a fairytale

While I can't complain since my college education has always been paid for by scholarships, grants, government and some family help, I do know a lot of students who struggle. Or I always hear people saying they can't afford to go back to school. "Free" college education might be a bit much, but I do think something can done to make it more affordable and feasible for people.

why should people expect something for nothing? If you need scholarships to go to college, then you need to work hard, put in the effort. Too many, and the facts that Bernie Sanders is still in this race proves it, think everything should just be handed to them.

I agree with this. The problem is that everyone wants everything handed to them without working hard for it. I hate people that think they are entitled to things that they haven't earned.

 

[HowiMetdaSlayer]

As an American, I'd settle for an affordable education. BTW - someone mentioned something about taxing the big businesses out of America. Like they need an excuse to leave. Most are already manufacturing their products in asia, anyway. 🙄

 

[Fuffy]

As long as Donald Trump doesn't become president, I think that things will stay reasonable (I'm pretty sure that Hilary Clinton will win the elections though...).

I think that everyone should have access to education (the 'good' kind) of some sort and make the best of it 🙂

 

[bespangeled]

I'm not against free education, I just think it's an unrealistic ideal. It would be nice to have, but I don't think it's politically feasible.

It's what was once said about high school. But needs change - the benefit of having an educated work force would pay for itself in taxes. The seed money should come from getting rid of the tax loopholes that make the rich immune from taxes.
 

Politically: Free college education for all... sounds like a fairytale...

For all who can benefit and are willing to do the work.

You have to find a balance between free 'worthwhile' education for the population and subsidising any and everything on a whim.

This isn't a matter of making all colleges free - it's a matter of making public community colleges free. These are the colleges that train in job skills.

. On the flip side, why should people expect something for nothing? If you need scholarships to go to college, then you need to work hard, put in the effort.

I just had a batch of student who graduated from high school - 800 student and they ranked 1,3, and 4. Only the first ranked one was offered any kind of scholarship. As for loans - even public universities leave you with the tens of thousands in debt. I know - both my kids worked full time and went to school part time. Neither of them ever got less than an A. And both had to drop out because it was impossible to maintain - now they have a combined 40k in debt to pay off. That's ridiculous.

As a solid Conservative, I have to ask, where is the money going to come from for all of this "free" college education? I know that the first response is going to be, "Let's raise the taxes on big businesses," but the problem with that is, you're going to tax those big businesses right out of the country, to a place where they will get the tax breaks that they want, plus have no minimum wage requirements or benefit programs for their employees. Result: even fewer jobs here in the U S, more people jobless, more pay outs from Social Security and Unemployment, and higher taxes for the few people still lucky enough to remain employed.

Same argument used every time wages are raised - and disproved every time wages are raised. Here's this - you want a govt contract for anything - you keep your business here and pay taxes. Then get rid of the tax loopholes - as Ronald Reagan said. Conservatism has changed so radically - I like Eisenhower, Goldwater, even Reagan - that makes me a liberal now.

Then there's the case for the instructors who will be administering this free education. The plan sounds great until you consider the fact that the best instructors are going to go where the highest paid salaries can be had, and a government paid job, with its lower salary and benefits is only going to attract those who are, at best, second rate in their fields of expertise. That means that this free education, which is being paid for by a smaller group of employed tax payers, is going to be, at best, only second rate, and is going to result in a job market flooded with second rate college educated young men and women who somehow have the idea that being a college graduate is going to somehow guarantee them a "top paying" job.

Same instructors - same public colleges - same wages. It's all going on right now. Nothing would change for them. BTW - about 20+ years ago community college was free.

 

[The Bronze]

Good on Eliza for backing the only sensible option in the American elections. Hillary Clinton represents business as usual. Having received so much money from vested interest groups that is who she works for. The Republican side is absolutely terrifying from the outside looking in. Sanders stands against TTIP & TTP and for trying to get a fairer deal for normal people. Fingers crossed he could reign in the military a bit as well.

 

[bespangeled]

Yeah - I'll vote Hilary if I have to - mainly because the top 3 Repubs all agree that all mosques should be closed and all Muslims treated as if they are potential terrorists. Those guys are lunatics, IMO.

 

[The Bronze]

mainly because the top 3 Repubs all agree that all mosques should be closed and all Muslims treated as if they are potential terrorists. Those guys are lunatics, IMO.

Is it possible that the Republican side is just very dark American humour trolling the rest of the world?

 

[Buffy Summers]

It's what was once said about high school.

Yeah, because the US public educational system is so great lol. And you want the government running universities too?

I just had a batch of student who graduated from high school - 800 student and they ranked 1,3, and 4. Only the first ranked one was offered any kind of scholarship. I know - both my kids worked full time and went to school part time. Neither of them ever got less than an A. And both had to drop out because it was impossible to maintain - now they have a combined 40k in debt to pay off. That's ridiculous.

Did those 1, 3 and 4 have financial need? Did they apply to outside grants and scholarships or did they just fill out the school's form and expect to get one? Just making As isn't enough.

And no offense, truly, but, plenty of people manage to work and go to school. It's difficult, but if you want it, then you'll do it. But saddling graduates with a lot of debt IS a problem, which is why I said the system needs to be revamped so the money is going to scholarships rather than into University presidents' pockets. BUT that's not the same thing as giving everyone "free" education, which is not actually free at all. The money's there, it's just not being used the way it's supposed to be. And voting for someone because you think he's going to forgive all your debt is still expecting something for nothing.

Same argument used every time wages are raised - and disproved every time wages are raised.

I really don't think that's true. I'm all for getting rid of tax loopholes, but the solution to everything isn't just "tax business more" or "tax the rich". Because small business and the middle class bear the brunt of those initiatives.

BTW - about 20+ years ago community college was free.

And where do you think that "free" came from? Baby boomers (and their parents because I think it was more than 20 years ago) paying taxes. Maybe if we weren't about to be saddled with having to make huge social security payouts, or if the other 50% of the US started paying taxes, the government could afford to pay for community college.

Yeah - I'll vote Hilary if I have to - mainly because the top 3 Repubs all agree that all mosques should be closed and all Muslims treated as if they are potential terrorists. Those guys are lunatics, IMO.

That is just not true. But better a lunatic than a liar and criminal.

 

[Bluebird]

There needs to be reform of/controls on endowments. Schools with these billions of dollar endowments should not be able to raise tuition every year and just keep growing endowments like they are a badge of honor. On the flip side, why should people expect something for nothing? If you need scholarships to go to college, then you need to work hard, put in the effort. Too many, and the facts that Bernie Sanders is still in this race proves it, think everything should just be handed to them.

I think if we're speaking about handouts, there's a lot worse going on in government subsidies and tax loopholes for corporations. Surely not all handouts are a bad thing? If we can hand over billions to the banks to bail them out, why can't we help the powerless?

As a solid Conservative, I have to ask, where is the money going to come from for all of this "free" college education? I know that the first response is going to be, "Let's raise the taxes on big businesses," but the problem with that is, you're going to tax those big businesses right out of the country, to a place where they will get the tax breaks that they want, plus have no minimum wage requirements or benefit programs for their employees. Result: even fewer jobs here in the U S, more people jobless, more pay outs from Social Security and Unemployment, and higher taxes for the few people still lucky enough to remain employed.

Then there's the case for the instructors who will be administering this free education. The plan sounds great until you consider the fact that the best instructors are going to go where the highest paid salaries can be had, and a government paid job, with its lower salary and benefits is only going to attract those who are, at best, second rate in their fields of expertise. That means that this free education, which is being paid for by a smaller group of employed tax payers, is going to be, at best, only second rate, and is going to result in a job market flooded with second rate college educated young men and women who somehow have the idea that being a college graduate is going to somehow guarantee them a "top paying" job

The US shouldn't be controlled by fear of losing corporate interests. The people are meant to be in charge, not companies. Besides, most companies hire oversees now anyway. If they could pay Americans a few cents a day they would, quick as a flash. Is that worth them staying? They only way they will is to become a third world country. Cheapest wages is profit, no American company has loyalty to its citizens I'm afraid.

And it is a fallacy to say taxfunded wages for teachers/doctors equals a second rate service. It has been done in other countries in the world, Europe especially, and they rank above the US in their fields.




I don't mean to offend. I think individualism has taken over a lot in America, generally speaking - obviously not all, and it's hard to create or feel empathy and community out of that.
I may be completely the wrong person to speak on this since I grew up with tax paid higher education and healthcare (which I am so thankful for).
I cannot get my head around the aversion to paying taxes for education and healthcare. What else would anyone rather their taxes went to? Like, really? What is more important? That would be my top 2 picks if we had a say in the matter! It has flummoxed me my entire life.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

most companies hire oversees now anyway.

No they dont. Most businesses are small or mid-size businesses. That is a fact. Another fact is many small businesses have been crippled by Obama's 'affordable' healthcare. We let thousands of people go at my previous job because of 'affordable healthcare' added onto that is the fact many businesses have gone out of business as a result.

 

[thetopher]

It's about efficiency. Are you really getting what you pay for already or is the money already going to waste? The answer isn't always 'more money, more money', sometimes the answer is something else.
Nobody wastes money like big government, no matter what political ideology they are. whether it's either incompotent or corruption- take your pick.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

Here's facts in regards to big business:

There are 28 million small businesses in the U.S. -- they outnumber corporations 1162 to 1
70% of small businesses are owned and operated by a single person
Small businesses employ 57% of the country's private workforce

 

[Bluebird]

No they dont. Most businesses are small businesses. That is a fact. Another fact is many small businesses have been crippled by Obama's 'affordable' healthcare. We let thousands of people go at my previous job because of 'affordable healthcare' added onto that is the fact many businesses have gone out of business as a result.

I should have clarified. I meant corporations, low skilled manual jobs. Small businesses have no lobbying power otherwise your situation wouldn't have happened. I don't rate Obama, he is as influenced by money just as much as any other career politician. Small businesses have no power. Workers even less so.

It makes me sad that workers have less rights in the US too. Wouldn't you want to have stability in your job and more paid leave etc? The ability to start a family without maybe having to quit your job? There should be mandatory rights regarding workers, for some of the very basics of life.

Again, these fair and basic laws work extremely well in other countries, and are there to protect the workers.

Having an educated and healthy population is the path to prosperity, is it not? As a nation, not an individual.
 

Here's facts in regards to big business:

There are 28 million small businesses in the U.S. -- they outnumber corporations 1162 to 1
70% of small businesses are owned and operated by a single person
Small businesses employ 57% of the country's private workforce

No lobbying power, no one cares.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

Wouldn't you want to have stability in your job and more paid leave etc? The ability to start a family without maybe having to quit your job?

No. Not at the expense of the federal government dictating to ME how I run MY business. If working for me is such a horrible thing then no one would. (granted, no one DOES but that's another matter!) but we have the freedom to run our businesses as we see fit- within certain parameters- if you do not give vacation or good health benefits, then you run the risk of either losing employees that want them, or their not accepting the job in the first place. I have turned down dozens of jobs because the 'terms' were not what I wanted. But the government needs to keep their nose out of how businesses are ran and start giving more incentives to and for small and mid-size businesses and not less. 80% of all new jobs come from small businesses; if the government dictates how they run them that number will plummet.

 

[The Bronze]

I cannot get my head around the aversion to paying taxes for education and healthcare. What else would anyone rather their taxes went to? Like, really? What is more important? That would be my top 2 picks if we had a say in the matter! It has flummoxed me my entire life.

If you're rich enough then you can afford private education and healthcare. It's of little interest if the poor survive. Also a largely uneducated population is easier to control. Corporations need people working and buying, not thinking.

I don't know exactly how comparable the situations in the UK and US are but I assume the right wing stance of privatisation and austerity we're under attack from is similar. A couple of interesting articles about "Aspiration Tax" and the efficiency of public health care from the UK.

They're not tuition fees, they're a tax on aspiration

The fiction of NHS inefficiency

 

[nightshade]

It makes me sad that workers have less rights in the US too. Wouldn't you want to have stability in your job and more paid leave etc? The ability to start a family without maybe having to quit your job? There should be mandatory rights regarding workers, for some of the very basics of life.

I find it ridiculous that there's no paid maternity leave the the US. It does seem like a country that caters for the rich and expects the more to have no education or children, because they just can't afford it.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

I find it ridiculous that there's no paid maternity leave the the US.

There is.

Hell, I worked at a place where a woman would get a day off a month- with pay- to celebrate her friggin period! So just because you were a woman you could get an extra day off every month with pay.

It all depends on for whom you work.

 

[Buffy Summers]

I think if we're speaking about handouts, there's a lot worse going on in government subsidies and tax loopholes for corporations. Surely not all handouts are a bad thing? If we can hand over billions to the banks to bail them out, why can't we help the powerless?

We're not talking about the powerless, though. We're talking about able bodied students. I'm not talking about the 10% of our population who genuinely cannot afford to pay taxes. Our system was set up to help these people, and that's how it should be. But the other 40% should be paying something into the kitty. Also, I already said I was for closing tax loopholes. Though companies wouldn't need them if they were taxed fairly. The banks were bailed out because of how that would effect the rest of the economy, not just the banks.

The US shouldn't be controlled by fear of losing corporate interests. The people are meant to be in charge, not companies.

But people need the jobs that the companies provide, now more than ever. You can't just throw up your hands and say, "Well, if they want to go elsewhere, let em!" It's like how downsizing the military and closing bases sounds like a great thing - but what about all those jobs? It's not so simple as it's sometimes made out to be.

If they could pay Americans a few cents a day they would, quick as a flash.

No, that's why we have a minimum wage. But it needs to be a fair one - if you are working a minimum wage job, you do not need to be making enough to have an iPhone. You need to work and progress until you make enough for one. It would be great if every small business could afford to pay its workers $20 an hour, but that's not feasible for most. And raising the minimum wage does result in fewer jobs.

And it is a fallacy to say taxfunded wages for teachers/doctors equals a second rate service. It has been done in other countries in the world, Europe especially, and they rank above the US in their fields.

I'm not sure most (I won't say none, but it's possible) countries with social medicine doctors provide better care than US doctors. Why do so many students come here for education? Why do so many non-American doctors come here to work? If other countries have made this work, that is great for them, but the US has proven they can't oversee education by the piss poor job they do at K-12 education.

I don't mean to offend.

Not offended 🙂

I cannot get my head around the aversion to paying taxes for education and healthcare. What else would anyone rather their taxes went to? Like, really? What is more important? That would be my top 2 picks if we had a say in the matter! It has flummoxed me my entire life.

We already pay taxes for education. I pay school taxes every year even though I have no children. Honestly, I don't feel it's my job to pay for your university. ESPECIALLY when these schools have a ton of money they won't tap into because they won't look as elite. Also, it will be as wasted with universities as it is with primary/secondary schools. Leave the tax money in people's pockets, and let people with children save it for their education.

Healthcare - there are pros and cons, but again, when speaking about the US government they don't manage funds well and I don't feel they can manage healthcare. I mean, our VA system is horrendous. It's great for countries that it works for. Though I sort of feel that socialized medicine is great until you get truly sick and need a lot of tests and have to pay that stuff out of pocket or not have it. Which is where Obamacare is sending us anyway. Good luck if you're 80 and need surgery because you probably won't get it soon (or rather, your insurance will not pay for it). Healthcare needs reformed but I don't think they've yet found the solution. All they've succeeded in doing is losing tons of healthcare jobs.

 

[Bluebird]

No. Not at the expense of the federal government dictating to ME how I run MY business. If working for me is such a horrible thing then no one would. (granted, no one DOES but that's another matter!) but we have the freedom to run our businesses as we see fit- within certain parameters- if you do not give vacation or good health benefits, then you run the risk of either losing employees that want them, or their not accepting the job in the first place. I have turned down dozens of jobs because the 'terms' were not what I wanted. But the government needs to keep their nose out of how businesses are ran and start giving more incentives to and for small and mid-size businesses and not less. 80% of all new jobs come from small businesses; if the government dictates how they run them that number will plummet.

I mean more like a set minimum level, rather than dictating how they run. Like you have a minimum on what age you can hire. I'm sure small businesses are generally a lot more respectful of their staff in comparison to faceless giants so in my eyes it wouldn't affect them as much.
But like I say, I am but an ignorant foreigner 🙂 your world is very different from mine!