I only say betrayed because every one, every one told her that wanted to change, that they didn't think she could lead them. Every potential, every friends, all of them told her off. In my mind that is betrayal. To call her out in her own home and infront of everyone. Not cool.
Empty Places
- Thread starter GATEGOD
- Start date
I only say betrayed because every one, every one told her that wanted to change, that they didn't think she could lead them. Every potential, every friends, all of them told her off. In my mind that is betrayal. To call her out in her own home and infront of everyone. Not cool.
Buffy definitely shouldn't have let anyone kick her out of her own house. That was partly her fault. However everyone else is to blame as well, because kicking someone out of their own house is just something you don't do.
And I agree that the Potentials (and everyone else involved except maybe Faith) betrayed her because of all that Buffy had done for them. Giles just brought the Potentials to Buffy's house, no one ever asked Buffy if they could stay there. Buffy protected them, provided them with food and shelter, and she rescued many more Potentials from the Bringers (including Rona, who should've been left for the Bringers). Buffy did so much for them, but when she actually wanted them to follow her lead they decided they didn't wanna listen to her anymore. They betrayed her, plain and simple. Her friends betrayed her as well, because none of them (besides Spike) would stand by her side and back her up. They knew what she'd done in the past, all the times she'd saved the world, they should've trusted her.
Buffy was the one who'd been in situations like this before, she'd always found a way to save the world, and that's why she should've been recognized as the leader from the start. No one else had done what she'd done. Instead, Buffy makes one mistake and everyone wants Faith, who just got out of jail, to lead them because "she's a Slayer too."
And I agree that the Potentials (and everyone else involved except maybe Faith) betrayed her because of all that Buffy had done for them. Giles just brought the Potentials to Buffy's house, no one ever asked Buffy if they could stay there. Buffy protected them, provided them with food and shelter, and she rescued many more Potentials from the Bringers (including Rona, who should've been left for the Bringers). Buffy did so much for them, but when she actually wanted them to follow her lead they decided they didn't wanna listen to her anymore. They betrayed her, plain and simple. Her friends betrayed her as well, because none of them (besides Spike) would stand by her side and back her up. They knew what she'd done in the past, all the times she'd saved the world, they should've trusted her.
Buffy was the one who'd been in situations like this before, she'd always found a way to save the world, and that's why she should've been recognized as the leader from the start. No one else had done what she'd done. Instead, Buffy makes one mistake and everyone wants Faith, who just got out of jail, to lead them because "she's a Slayer too."
LadyLavinia
Scooby
What is this "betrayed" nonsense? What utter crap! This sounds like nothing but double standard nonsense. It's okay for Buffy to turn her back on Giles after he had failed her . . . or the Watcher's Council, but the Scoobies and the Potentials had no right to "betray" her?
Buffy had it coming. Yes, they had no right to kick her out of her own home. But like an idiot, she was the one who allowed them. She could have told them to get out. Instead, she left.
As for the others "betraying" her, they had every right to do so. Just because she's the main character in the series, does not mean that everyone has to BLINDLY follow her, even when she is making mistakes that are costing lives.
I only say betrayed because every one, every one told her that wanted to change, that they didn't think she could lead them. Every potential, every friends, all of them told her off. In my mind that is betrayal. To call her out in her own home and infront of everyone. Not cool.
What utter crap! Not cool my ass! Buffy got what she had deserved. She's been treating everyone like General von Summers. She was a bad leader. And the Potentials and the Scoobies knew it.
And what the hell is this hostility over Rona? What the hell has she ever done? All she did was make a snarky comment about Buffy after the latter left and now you're claiming that she should have been left for the Bringers? I guess that you're one of those who think that Rona should be "lovingly" following Buffy's every move or worshipping Miss Blonde Ambition at her side. What is she supposed to be? The Faithful Sidekick? I say kudos to Rona! At least she got her priorities right. And it's not blindly following Buffy or anyone else.
Buffy had it coming. Yes, they had no right to kick her out of her own home. But like an idiot, she was the one who allowed them. She could have told them to get out. Instead, she left.
As for the others "betraying" her, they had every right to do so. Just because she's the main character in the series, does not mean that everyone has to BLINDLY follow her, even when she is making mistakes that are costing lives.
I only say betrayed because every one, every one told her that wanted to change, that they didn't think she could lead them. Every potential, every friends, all of them told her off. In my mind that is betrayal. To call her out in her own home and infront of everyone. Not cool.
What utter crap! Not cool my ass! Buffy got what she had deserved. She's been treating everyone like General von Summers. She was a bad leader. And the Potentials and the Scoobies knew it.
And what the hell is this hostility over Rona? What the hell has she ever done? All she did was make a snarky comment about Buffy after the latter left and now you're claiming that she should have been left for the Bringers? I guess that you're one of those who think that Rona should be "lovingly" following Buffy's every move or worshipping Miss Blonde Ambition at her side. What is she supposed to be? The Faithful Sidekick? I say kudos to Rona! At least she got her priorities right. And it's not blindly following Buffy or anyone else.
First of all, if that double standard comment was directed at me, I don't see where I've showcased a double standard, considering I didn't mention anything about Giles or the Watcher's Council. If the comment was directed at someone else then disregard this paragraph.
I don't see why Buffy losing one battle suddenly makes her a bad leader. No leader wins every battle, no matter how good they are. Buffy had shown numerous times in the past that she was in fact a good leader. She'd lost battles before, but in the end she'd always found a way to win the war, against every Big Bad the group faced. She'd been saving the world for 6 years. Her friends knew her track record, and they should have supported her. It's not blindly following, it's supporting someone with a history of winning. She even said she'd let them discuss strategies and what not, so it's not like they would've had no say in the issue. And I don't see what's wrong with acting like a general, when you have a group of that many people, someone has to step up and lead. Letting everyone have their input about what to do works fine when there's only about 4-8 people, like in the earlier seasons, but when you have 30 or more people, the 20 Potentials who have never been in this type of situation before need to either shut up and listen, or pack their bags. It may suck, but it's what has to be done in a war.
The hostility towards Rona was because she was an ungrateful brat. Buffy saved her life, and Rona acted like it was some big chore to be there. She bad mouthed Buffy several times, and no, I don't expect her to worship Buffy, but when someone saves your life and lets you stay in their home, you at least show them some respect. It's not about her disagreeing with Buffy as much as it's about her being disrespectful throughout her stay there.
I don't see why Buffy losing one battle suddenly makes her a bad leader. No leader wins every battle, no matter how good they are. Buffy had shown numerous times in the past that she was in fact a good leader. She'd lost battles before, but in the end she'd always found a way to win the war, against every Big Bad the group faced. She'd been saving the world for 6 years. Her friends knew her track record, and they should have supported her. It's not blindly following, it's supporting someone with a history of winning. She even said she'd let them discuss strategies and what not, so it's not like they would've had no say in the issue. And I don't see what's wrong with acting like a general, when you have a group of that many people, someone has to step up and lead. Letting everyone have their input about what to do works fine when there's only about 4-8 people, like in the earlier seasons, but when you have 30 or more people, the 20 Potentials who have never been in this type of situation before need to either shut up and listen, or pack their bags. It may suck, but it's what has to be done in a war.
The hostility towards Rona was because she was an ungrateful brat. Buffy saved her life, and Rona acted like it was some big chore to be there. She bad mouthed Buffy several times, and no, I don't expect her to worship Buffy, but when someone saves your life and lets you stay in their home, you at least show them some respect. It's not about her disagreeing with Buffy as much as it's about her being disrespectful throughout her stay there.
When watching S7 I actually saw Buffy's banishment coming and was expecting a mutiny at some point later in the season. To be honest, I would've been dissappointed if nothing had happened because the whole season was building up to it. Like many others here, I think the scene itself was awkwardly written and less-than-perfectly executed but I think it had to happen given the way Buffy behaves during the season.
I'm not saying she had it coming really, or that it was totally her fault. Rather, she had to start leading a considerably larger group of people than she had before most of whom she didn't even know, and she didn't know how to deal with the situation so it led to her detaching herself from the others more and taking a superior position. Her attitude started irritating the people around her because I think she started increasingly clearly indicating by her behavior towards others that she's better than them and that they should just do whatever she says because she knows best. She probably did it subconsciously since it was exactly what she had been afraid of for a long time, according to her conversation with Holden in "Conversations with Dead People". All in all, I think Buffy is incredibly well and consistently written during S7, and though I did feel sorry for her in "Empty Places", I think it was bound to happen and in the end a good thing for Buffy herself.
Her dialogue in the end scene shows to me just how far she's come and why it was necessary that she'd have some perspective forced upon her. I don't think her plan to go back to the vineyard was that bad but the way she wasn't ready to consider or even hear what the others might have to say was so indiscreet and arrogant that it was bound to get a bad reaction. And when that reaction came she was utterly surprised that someone would question her ultimate leadership, even her friends who were supposed to know better. Her perception of the situation was extremely one-sided, just everyone betraying her when she had just been trying to do the job everyone had pushed onto her without a second thought. I don't feel it was her fault that she handled the new situation badly but it doesn't change the fact that she did.
Her line about Faith leading the others into a disaster is an especially cruel one since it basically means that Faith will inevitably fail no matter what she does and is a bad leader unlike Buffy herself. It's unfair because Faith hadn't actually promoted herself as the leader and still Buffy started blindly throwing such mean comments about her skills. Even so, she ignores the fact that she had just returned from leading everyone into a disaster herself. Of course it's a very natural thing to do, start blaming others as self-defence, but her comment must've stung Faith pretty hard in that situation. I also think the line embodies the way Buffy has become, instead of "The Slayer Who Has Friends", "The Slayer Who Has Lots Of People Living In Her House".
And while talking about Faith, I don't think for a second the others were suggesting that her right to be the leader was just as big as Buffy's was because they were ready to accept her as the leader. It was simply a way to prop up their criticism of Buffy, to have something concrete to stand up to her with.
As for the lack of apologies later on, I don't think the situation called for them. They might've not been completely okay with each other but I think Buffy had as much to apologize as the others, and so they could pretty much call it even since I believe that both parties started to understand what they had done wrong.
I'm not saying she had it coming really, or that it was totally her fault. Rather, she had to start leading a considerably larger group of people than she had before most of whom she didn't even know, and she didn't know how to deal with the situation so it led to her detaching herself from the others more and taking a superior position. Her attitude started irritating the people around her because I think she started increasingly clearly indicating by her behavior towards others that she's better than them and that they should just do whatever she says because she knows best. She probably did it subconsciously since it was exactly what she had been afraid of for a long time, according to her conversation with Holden in "Conversations with Dead People". All in all, I think Buffy is incredibly well and consistently written during S7, and though I did feel sorry for her in "Empty Places", I think it was bound to happen and in the end a good thing for Buffy herself.
Her dialogue in the end scene shows to me just how far she's come and why it was necessary that she'd have some perspective forced upon her. I don't think her plan to go back to the vineyard was that bad but the way she wasn't ready to consider or even hear what the others might have to say was so indiscreet and arrogant that it was bound to get a bad reaction. And when that reaction came she was utterly surprised that someone would question her ultimate leadership, even her friends who were supposed to know better. Her perception of the situation was extremely one-sided, just everyone betraying her when she had just been trying to do the job everyone had pushed onto her without a second thought. I don't feel it was her fault that she handled the new situation badly but it doesn't change the fact that she did.
Her line about Faith leading the others into a disaster is an especially cruel one since it basically means that Faith will inevitably fail no matter what she does and is a bad leader unlike Buffy herself. It's unfair because Faith hadn't actually promoted herself as the leader and still Buffy started blindly throwing such mean comments about her skills. Even so, she ignores the fact that she had just returned from leading everyone into a disaster herself. Of course it's a very natural thing to do, start blaming others as self-defence, but her comment must've stung Faith pretty hard in that situation. I also think the line embodies the way Buffy has become, instead of "The Slayer Who Has Friends", "The Slayer Who Has Lots Of People Living In Her House".
And while talking about Faith, I don't think for a second the others were suggesting that her right to be the leader was just as big as Buffy's was because they were ready to accept her as the leader. It was simply a way to prop up their criticism of Buffy, to have something concrete to stand up to her with.
As for the lack of apologies later on, I don't think the situation called for them. They might've not been completely okay with each other but I think Buffy had as much to apologize as the others, and so they could pretty much call it even since I believe that both parties started to understand what they had done wrong.
LadyLavinia
Scooby
How was the scene awkward and less-than-perfectly executed? How was it supposed to be perfectly executed?
Oh I see. Rona has to get down on her knees and thank Buffy for leading her into that battle against Caleb where she had her arm broken. Or for failing to tell her and the other Potentials about Spike's trigger, while they were all under the same roof.
I say BS to that. If Rona wants to get pissy about Buffy's past mistakes, she has every right to do so. Screw Buffy and her feelings. She brought this mess on herself.
If I had been Rona, I would tell Dawn to take her "shut up" comment and shove it up her ass.
Blondie Bear
Zydrate Addict
I like how you conveniently don't quote the part of my post where I said "and no, I don't expect her to worship Buffy." I just think she should've shown much more respect towards the one who saved her life. Instead, just like Blondie Bear's post shows, she had been disrespectful from the beginning. She was acting that way before they knew about Spike's trigger, and before the battle against Caleb. It's not like that stuff happened, then Rona got an attitude about everything. She had one since the beginning.
And if I was Dawn, or Buffy, or Xander, or Spike, or any of the Scoobies for that matter, by the 2nd or 3rd little comment Rona made I'd be telling her to find a new place to stay.
I do think that scene of Empty Places is poorly written, I rather like the first version they wrote better, the one where we <i>see</i> Xander and Willow being shocked and hurt that Buffy didn't trust them, the one where Willow and Xander offer Buffy to rest because she hadn't been sleeping for awhile, the one where Dawn gives Buffy a choice before telling her to leave. That version is much better written than this one.
I think you guys are hard on Rona, she's scared, I might just act like her if I were in her shoes. Reading S8, she seems to come a long way.
I think you guys are hard on Rona, she's scared, I might just act like her if I were in her shoes. Reading S8, she seems to come a long way.
LadyLavinia
Scooby
Oh, I'm sorry. I guess you're pissed at her for not kissing Buffy's feet and treating the latter like a god . . . despite the fact that Buffy had endangered her life by allowed a triggered Spike in the house and made a stupid decision that nearly cost Rona her life.
This is hypocricy at its worst. It's okay for Buffy to thumb her nose at authority figures. But when Buffy became the authority figure, many of you demanded that Rona and the other Potentials follow her blindly like good little Stepford Wives. Why? Because Buffy is the main character of the series.
I cheer Rona for questioning Buffy's authority. That tells me that she's not stupid enough to blindly follow someone's orders.
Even in the end, Buffy had to realize that she could not simply dictate the actions of the Potentials. She needed their cooperation. And she had to learn to include them in the decision making process. Apparently, this lesson seemed to be lost on many fans, because they don't like the idea of someone turning his or her back on the exaulted Buffy Anne Summers.
In other words, you want everyone acting in a rational, where everything is handled neatly. The problem is that life isn't neat, rational or orderly. I'm glad that Whedon changed the story. The change made it interesting to me.
Blondie Bear
Zydrate Addict
No, actually, I'm pissed at her for having a snotty attitude right from the start--BEFORE anything happened to her. Buffy saved her from the Bringers, and she acted angry that there were even Bringers around, as if Buffy should be some god who can just make things all better.
We're not making with the ad hominem attacks. Please don't, either. I'm trying to explain what I feel about what happened this season. If you don't agree, great. Fine. Wonderful. But don't call those of us who don't agree with you names. Most of us are being polite and trying to frame our opinions in a way that makes it clear that they are OUR opinions. It wouldn't kill you to do the same.
E
Edmund Blackadder
I would join but LadyLavinia bores me. she goes on about how hypocritical we all are but the stubborn mule never listens to anyone. I like a good fight, you know that but some are just not worth it:)
BuffyBloke
Buffy's Man
I just spent a good while reading this thread and I thought since Empty Places and this particular scene are my favourite of the whole season, I thought I'd give my comments on it.
I can understand why everyone felt the need to attack and Buffy about her plan. It was a dangerous plan, and they had just lost two more potentials at the vineyard , and before that. They felt nervous about going there unprepared.
Buffy's mistake was not carefully thinking about how she was going to execute this plan, it was clearly a plan that was not going to be thought through properly. Calib and the first and those ...(forgotten the name) had been waiting for them and well , look what happened in Dirty Girls.
And let's face it, Would you have wanted to go back into a dangerous situation with a reckless leader? I know I would not have. . A proper call would have to done some survelliance on that place at least before gonig back a second time. The one where Faith and Buffy are out checking the place, that would have been a perfect scene for them both to get a feel for the place.
Back to this particular scene
The show down was great, everyone will interpreate what they thought of this differently , I thought it was great we saw some sort of verbal fight between Buffy, the slaves (err I mean Potentials lol) and her friends. It was about time someone stood up to Buffy and questioned her decision making. Before the fight at the vineyard, there was something about Buffy's leadership/decision making that seemed to be not quite right. It was all about her. It was not about making the right decision for what was best of the group, even with the potentials. When you make decisions like this , especially when she was gambling with young girls lives, she should have considered the impacts of her decisions and their consequences. And this is what everyone was worried about - how she could act so irresponsibly..without thinking? And during Season 7 she'd demonstrated that.
It seemed Buffy was not clearly understanding their concerns. It was very one sided to her and she wanted it to be her way or no way.. and she was not willing to hear out other ideas and that was a shame because I thought Buffy should have least given some of the potentials, including Kennedy, some legwork in bringing up ideas on how they could have best executed the "plan." if they had to go back again...
Giles attacking Buffy with "Didn't you say to me today you can't trust us? Maybe there's something there that should be addressed." was a great way to start the attack on Buffy, but I don't understand why Buffy was being immature with her comment about Spike. Even though it did seem from her POV that Spike was sent away but I would not have thought Giles would have done this on purpose.
Dawn was a little cow here, how could she kick Buffy out of the house? I mean seriously, she's the one that doesn't own it, what should have happened was Buffy go upstairs and rest, it should have headed in that direction, Dawn had no particular right to kick her own sister out of the house. She sat back and watched everyone else attack her sister, and then she thought 'hey since she doesnt agree with us, I'm going to kick her out'.... She should have at leat somewhat voiced her concern to her sister privately... along with Faith,Giles,Willow, there was no need for it to spill with the potentials. (the trusting and the decison making/leadership baddy waggon conversation).
It was a really dramatic scene from my point of view and I thought it was handled well, except for Dawn.. It was probably the best thing in season 7 I loved, and I happen to love season seven more because of the hidden tension that was esculating throughout the season.
I can understand why everyone felt the need to attack and Buffy about her plan. It was a dangerous plan, and they had just lost two more potentials at the vineyard , and before that. They felt nervous about going there unprepared.
Buffy's mistake was not carefully thinking about how she was going to execute this plan, it was clearly a plan that was not going to be thought through properly. Calib and the first and those ...(forgotten the name) had been waiting for them and well , look what happened in Dirty Girls.
And let's face it, Would you have wanted to go back into a dangerous situation with a reckless leader? I know I would not have. . A proper call would have to done some survelliance on that place at least before gonig back a second time. The one where Faith and Buffy are out checking the place, that would have been a perfect scene for them both to get a feel for the place.
Back to this particular scene
The show down was great, everyone will interpreate what they thought of this differently , I thought it was great we saw some sort of verbal fight between Buffy, the slaves (err I mean Potentials lol) and her friends. It was about time someone stood up to Buffy and questioned her decision making. Before the fight at the vineyard, there was something about Buffy's leadership/decision making that seemed to be not quite right. It was all about her. It was not about making the right decision for what was best of the group, even with the potentials. When you make decisions like this , especially when she was gambling with young girls lives, she should have considered the impacts of her decisions and their consequences. And this is what everyone was worried about - how she could act so irresponsibly..without thinking? And during Season 7 she'd demonstrated that.
It seemed Buffy was not clearly understanding their concerns. It was very one sided to her and she wanted it to be her way or no way.. and she was not willing to hear out other ideas and that was a shame because I thought Buffy should have least given some of the potentials, including Kennedy, some legwork in bringing up ideas on how they could have best executed the "plan." if they had to go back again...
Giles attacking Buffy with "Didn't you say to me today you can't trust us? Maybe there's something there that should be addressed." was a great way to start the attack on Buffy, but I don't understand why Buffy was being immature with her comment about Spike. Even though it did seem from her POV that Spike was sent away but I would not have thought Giles would have done this on purpose.
Dawn was a little cow here, how could she kick Buffy out of the house? I mean seriously, she's the one that doesn't own it, what should have happened was Buffy go upstairs and rest, it should have headed in that direction, Dawn had no particular right to kick her own sister out of the house. She sat back and watched everyone else attack her sister, and then she thought 'hey since she doesnt agree with us, I'm going to kick her out'.... She should have at leat somewhat voiced her concern to her sister privately... along with Faith,Giles,Willow, there was no need for it to spill with the potentials. (the trusting and the decison making/leadership baddy waggon conversation).
It was a really dramatic scene from my point of view and I thought it was handled well, except for Dawn.. It was probably the best thing in season 7 I loved, and I happen to love season seven more because of the hidden tension that was esculating throughout the season.
B
Blondie Bear
Here's some karma for a well-thought-out, well-articulated first post. Looking forward to more!
WatcherByBirthright
Darla's Puppy
After all the Scoobies and Potentials had been through, they had every right to begin to doubt their leader and her general tactics. Their arguments always seemed pretty reasonable to me, and don't forgot, it clear wasn't an easy decision for those closest to Buffy. (Note Dawn's tearful farewell and Faith suddenly rushing after Buffy to take command again).
I actually liked Dawn asking Buffy to leave. It was a wise decision she had made. Buffy needed to leave. She came back stronger, sure Spike helped, but he wouldn't have if Dawn didn't ask Buffy to leave. Dawn was doing it in a tough love kinda way, why else was she crying right after Buffy left? Why else was she quiet and upset in the next episode, thinking about Buffy and what's happening with her?
Still, I enjoyed the first version of this scene for the reasons I stated above, it felt more in character to me.
Still, I enjoyed the first version of this scene for the reasons I stated above, it felt more in character to me.
white avenger
white avenger
I guess this is just gonna be another one of hose "astronaut vs cave men" things, where there are valid reasons for each opinion.
B
Blondie Bear
Looks like.
I would just like to make it clear that this board is here for people to express their opinions freely without ridicule or allowing arguments to devolve into childish name calling. Everyone has varying opinions, no-ones is more valid than anyone elses. I ask everyone to keep that in mind when they reply.
Joyce Summers
Mom of a Chocoholic
Like many of you said, I do think the final scene in Empty Places was an inevitable place to come to. Since the Potentials had been arriving non-stop and Buffy had had to take on more and more responsibility she had been slowly removing herself from equal and friend to leader and boss. But I think this was a necessary thing. She no longer had just the Scoobies she had troops essentially and so to keep order she had to treat them as such.
However in all this she was forgetting that her friends that had been there since the beginning were there too and while she may (reasonably or not) believe the Potentials were too green to have thier opinion counted I think she should have taken into consideration what her friends had to say as not only were they her friends but also they had been as many as these wars as she had.
I agreed with her wanting to go back to the vineyard- watching the episode the first time I had the same feeling that there was still something there, that it was necessary to go back, but she also had to understand that the group was still shaken by the last attack on the vineyard.
However I didn't approve of how the group said she keeps making these decisions and they keep paying the price. Everyone pays a price in war- it's hard and it's painful but it's the way it is, and Buffy has had her fair share of loss as well. So that was an unfair argument.
Also what annoyed me was the group were so busy rallying against Buffy they didn't even hear Faith's protests. If they were so interested in fair and equal treatment they should spent a moment listening to Faith saying she didn't want to be the leader. She'd help but Buffy was leader material.
Yes, they had to make their feelings and opinions heard as Buffy had been ignoring them for a while, but to throw her out of the house was a bit extreme. Especially with Dawn. I was quite shocked by that as at the time I was like 'You can't throw your sister out of her own house!!' I mean Buffy was the one letting them all live there and I thought they had no rights to throw her out whether she agreed with them or not. It was her home; she was the one who had been paying for it, keeping it for the past two years.
As for Rona's comment 'ding dong the witch is dead'? That really got me mad. It's like 'You've made your point as a group, but that's just downright disrespectful' and despite how mad I was at Dawn at that moment I was totally behind the venom in her voice when she says shut up. I mean to make a comment like that was completely vicious and uncalled for. It was also immature and if they believe they can lead the ranks without Buffy, then they need to leave such immaturity behind. Rona was always miss mopey negative though. Potential wise I always preferred Vi and Amanda. Can't put my finger on why, I just did.
While I understood everybody's actions, throughout the scene my sympathy, empathy and my side was with Buffy all the way I'm afraid.
However in all this she was forgetting that her friends that had been there since the beginning were there too and while she may (reasonably or not) believe the Potentials were too green to have thier opinion counted I think she should have taken into consideration what her friends had to say as not only were they her friends but also they had been as many as these wars as she had.
I agreed with her wanting to go back to the vineyard- watching the episode the first time I had the same feeling that there was still something there, that it was necessary to go back, but she also had to understand that the group was still shaken by the last attack on the vineyard.
However I didn't approve of how the group said she keeps making these decisions and they keep paying the price. Everyone pays a price in war- it's hard and it's painful but it's the way it is, and Buffy has had her fair share of loss as well. So that was an unfair argument.
Also what annoyed me was the group were so busy rallying against Buffy they didn't even hear Faith's protests. If they were so interested in fair and equal treatment they should spent a moment listening to Faith saying she didn't want to be the leader. She'd help but Buffy was leader material.
Yes, they had to make their feelings and opinions heard as Buffy had been ignoring them for a while, but to throw her out of the house was a bit extreme. Especially with Dawn. I was quite shocked by that as at the time I was like 'You can't throw your sister out of her own house!!' I mean Buffy was the one letting them all live there and I thought they had no rights to throw her out whether she agreed with them or not. It was her home; she was the one who had been paying for it, keeping it for the past two years.
As for Rona's comment 'ding dong the witch is dead'? That really got me mad. It's like 'You've made your point as a group, but that's just downright disrespectful' and despite how mad I was at Dawn at that moment I was totally behind the venom in her voice when she says shut up. I mean to make a comment like that was completely vicious and uncalled for. It was also immature and if they believe they can lead the ranks without Buffy, then they need to leave such immaturity behind. Rona was always miss mopey negative though. Potential wise I always preferred Vi and Amanda. Can't put my finger on why, I just did.
While I understood everybody's actions, throughout the scene my sympathy, empathy and my side was with Buffy all the way I'm afraid.
B
Blondie Bear
[No message]
LadyLavinia
Scooby
I had no problem with Rona's attitude. If she didn't care for Buffy's leadership style, she didn't care for it. She had every right to express her displeasure. I don't recall many fans being particularly enamoured of General von Buffy. But since one of the Potentials - namely Rona - was the one who complained about her - everyone is bashing Rona.
How hypocritical!
I'm wondering why Buffy had allowed herself to be tossed out of the house. I can understand them rejecting her leadership. But why did Buffy allow them to kick her out of the house? Why not simply insist that they all leave? Was it that hard for her to do this?
Apparently, you've forgotten that Buffy's leadership led Rona to getting her arm broken by Caleb. Rona was supposed to forget that? Rona was supposed to show more respect to Buffy, after the latter led that disasterous attack upon Caleb at the vineyard? I don't think so. If I were Rona, I would say "Screw Buffy's leadership!" after that debacle.
Blondie Bear
Zydrate Addict
My point with the quotes was that Rona started being a bitca BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE HAPPENED. None of what you're talking about had gone on when Rona was sniping at everyone in "Showtime." Afterward, it's a different matter, though I still think everyone could have handled the situation better, INCLUDING Rona.