Episode Angel: Did Angel love Buffy?

[Wishing Oceans]

Watching the end of Angel today, I realized that Angel actually killed his own sire, and to an extent, a past no- soulmate. Remembering "Crush", it seems a lot like what Spike was going to do to prove his love for Buffy. What is this with vamps killing their sires for Buffy? 😀

Also, it is seemingly a very large deal to kill one's sire. I'd assume that vampires would have some sort of connection to their sire, perhaps in their blood. So, by presumption, it was probably pretty advanced of Angel to kill Darla. [Or, it is in my Dangel obsessed mind] Also, they'd been together for hundreds of years. Can't be that easy to throw away.

Which brings me to the big question: Did Angel love Buffy? If it had been in Second Season, I most likely would have said yes. However, seeing that this was in First Season, I'm not exactly sure. Angel's actions made it seem as though he loved her, but did he really, considering how little they knew of each other? I think that while he did not love her, he did feel a strong sense of wanting to protect her, which is hopefully why he seems to practically stalk her. 🙂

Thoughts?

 

[Emzzie]

Well, I think what Joss was going for was the "love at first sight" story. In a flashback we see Angel looking at Buffy who is in her room crying after a fight with her parents when she lived in L.A. Angel explains that he fell in love with her in that moment. It's probably not the answer you were looking for, but it is the answer the writers gave us 😉

 

[Flannen]

I think Angel did love her by this point. I don't necessarily believe in 'love at first sight' even in the case of Buffy and Angel. As Emzzie, in 'Helpless' Angel tells Buffy that he saw her outside her old school (I think) and that he could see her heart and he loved her. Even though he says it that way, I think it's more to do with the fact that he COULD love her, he knew that he WOULD love her but he wasn't desperately head over heels at that point. But by the time 'Angel' happens, I think he is very much heading towards this point. WTTH was the first time he'd actually been able to speak to her which must have been huge for him and I don't think it was until actually standing face to face with her, and realising that she WAS all he had imagined her to be, that he did allow himself (well actually he didn't want to allow himself but meh) to love her.

And yes, I think that killing Darla very much proved that.

And the big thing with killing your sire? Well, to me, sires have always been seen as a 'parent' in some ways I guess. Darla MADE Angel, just like Drusilla MADE Spike, which does bring up all sorts of horrible incest issues (haha) but I think it's on the same level as parent like. There's obviously a huge connection between a sire and their sirees, they can sense each other etc so I think it's just to do with killing the person that gave you and made you everything that you are at that moment. Hmm, does that make sense?

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

Well both Angel and Spike was involved with their sire, so I think that was it. Angel had a thing with Darla, and Buffy found out about it, so I think she started to like him even more because of that. Spike was in love with Drusilla, she gave him the chance when he needed it, and I think he couldn't really kill her. I found that scene funny 😀

 

[white avenger]

I think that at the point of that episode, Angel was infatuated with Buffy, but not completely, whole heartedly, in love with her, any more than she was with him. Like Flannen, I put little faith in love at first sight. Being in love takes time. Certainly, they were tentatively in love by the middle of Season 2, but up until then, I would call it more of a mutual crush than anything more.

 

[Eleftheria]

I am certain Angel was in love with Buffy at that point...tha man killed his sire for her sake,because Buffy was threatened...i haven't seen Crush so i am sorry i can't express any opinion about Spike

I am sure Angel loved Buffy even more in second season cause he got to know her better,then they dated,but i am sure he had very strong feelings in season 1...he was a little sarcastic at first(which i love in him very much) but maybe because he didn't wanna show his deep emotion!

 

[Wishing Oceans]

I think that at the point of that episode, Angel was infatuated with Buffy, but not completely, whole heartedly, in love with her, any more than she was with him. Like Flannen, I put little faith in love at first sight. Being in love takes time. Certainly, they were tentatively in love by the middle of Season 2, but up until then, I would call it more of a mutual crush than anything more.

I agree. 🙂 Which makes me wonder why he felt for her enough to kill his sire, who really knew him better than anyone... Of course, it could've been that he didn't feel for Darla anymore, but judging by the way they act around each other, I doubt it.

 

[Kana]

Well if you've seen Ats Season 2...

Spoiler

You'll see that Darla does mean a lot to Angel at least until Epiphany when he realises she doesn't hold the power over him that she used to

I'm not going to project my own feelings about love because the way I see it it's not something that that can be empirically proven, nor is it something deduced by cold logic. It is by it's very nature subjective, so if Angel says he loved Buffy at that point then I guess he loved Buffy at that point.

Not only was this of he first steps towards his love for Buffy but it was one of his first steps towards being a champion. He killed an evil vampire to save a Slayer. You know, he was growing as a person.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

Watching the end of Angel today, I realized that Angel actually killed his own sire, and to an extent, a past no- soulmate. Remembering "Crush", it seems a lot like what Spike was going to do to prove his love for Buffy. What is this with vamps killing their sires for Buffy? 😀

Also, it is seemingly a very large deal to kill one's sire. I'd assume that vampires would have some sort of connection to their sire, perhaps in their blood. So, by presumption, it was probably pretty advanced of Angel to kill Darla. [Or, it is in my Dangel obsessed mind] Also, they'd been together for hundreds of years. Can't be that easy to throw away.

Which brings me to the big question: Did Angel love Buffy? If it had been in Second Season, I most likely would have said yes. However, seeing that this was in First Season, I'm not exactly sure. Angel's actions made it seem as though he loved her, but did he really, considering how little they knew of each other? I think that while he did not love her, he did feel a strong sense of wanting to protect her, which is hopefully why he seems to practically stalk her. 🙂

Thoughts?

Hmm. Yes, I imagine it was very difficult for Angel to kill Darla. The look on his face in that scene speaks his pain. He doesn't say anything in typical Angel style, but you can tell it effects him very much. He was with Darla for a hundred years. Of course it was a big deal to kill her.

Did he love Buffy? For me, the fact that he didn't even hesitate to kill Darla when she put Buffy in danger suggests to me that yes, he loved her at that point. An action like that goes beyond a desire to protect.

And by the way, great observation comparing 'Angel' with 'Crush." Believe it or not, I'd never thought of that connection before.

I think that for Spike, he wanted to "prove" something to Buffy by killing Dru for her. That he was willing to kill for her love. Of course, this wasn't much coming from Spike considering his nature. Yet, considering how much Spike obviously loved Dru, the fact that he was willing to stake her for Buffy does say something. It's once of the main arguments people use when arguing that Spike loved Buffy pre-soul.

 

[Grey Ghost]

Did Angel really love Buffy? I think 'yes' but I feel that he had a problem with his feelings for her. He was wooried that he was a vampire, he didn't want to turn her so this meant she would grow old and die whereas barring accidents with stakes and sunshine etc he could live forever. So, this would mean that he would lose her eventually and I think that to him that would be a painful experiance. I also think that even when he had lost his soul again he still loved her, he disguised it by being the old Angel that the vamps knew. He tormented her and her friends but the only one that he killed was Jenny, someone who Giles loved not Buffy. He could've taken out Xander or Willow any time but didn't, was this because it would've hurt Buffy too much. Probably reading too much into it but that that's the great thing about these things you can read or imagine what you want.

 

[TheCheese]

Well if you've seen Ats Season 2...

Spoiler

You'll see that Darla does mean a lot to Angel at least until Epiphany when he realises she doesn't hold the power over him that she used to

I'm not going to project my own feelings about love because the way I see it it's not something that that can be empirically proven, nor is it something deduced by cold logic. It is by it's very nature subjective, so if Angel says he loved Buffy at that point then I guess he loved Buffy at that point.

Not only was this of he first steps towards his love for Buffy but it was one of his first steps towards being a champion. He killed an evil vampire to save a Slayer. You know, he was growing as a person.

He had a soul, in general. If given the opportunity, I would kill a vampire to save Carrot Top, much less a Slayer.

 

[crazysoulless]

You have to remember that even though Angel didn't introduce himself to Buffy until Welcome to the Hellmouth, he had been watching over her since she became the Slayer. He knew her for well over a year by the time he staked Darla for her.

 

[Wishing Oceans]

You have to remember that even though Angel didn't introduce himself to Buffy until Welcome to the Hellmouth, he had been watching over her since she became the Slayer. He knew her for well over a year by the time he staked Darla for her.

He watched her? Huh, I don't remember him stalking her except for that one time, could you point me to where you found that piece of info? Thank you. 🙂

As for the last bit, even if he had been watching her, he knew NOTHING about her. The only thing he could've had were inferences. But he had never talked to her, and so saying that he knew her for over a year is simply ludicrous. Not to mention extremely creepy. 😉

 

[Black Eye Guy]

I think he was in love with her at that point.

I think what makes it a bigger deal with Angel then Spike in Crush is Angel kills Darla without hesitation, Spike tries to use it to show Buffy he love her, he tried to build it up to make it a big deal.

I think with Angel, it wasn't so much a big deal, the choice was Darla dies no time to question it.

 

[Kean]

Angel didn't kill Darla as some romantic declaration of his love, he wasn't trying to prove anything to Buffy by staking her. He was trying to protect Buffy, he wasn't looking to make any gains from the act, it wasn't an ends to a means, it was just necessary.

 

[Wishing Oceans]

I think he was in love with her at that point.

I think what makes it a bigger deal with Angel then Spike in Crush is Angel kills Darla without hesitation, Spike tries to use it to show Buffy he love her, he tried to build it up to make it a big deal.

I think with Angel, it wasn't so much a big deal, the choice was Darla dies no time to question it.

Hm, I'm not quite sure if I agree... What you said sounds correct in theory, but it just seems like something is wrong with it...

Alright, well, I agree that Spike wasn't going to kill Dru because he was such a white hat, he was going to use Dru as a tool to prove his life to a girl. Kind of like when he didn't drink the blood of those hurt people (In Triangle, was it?) just so he could get praise from Buffy. Not because he was "fighting for redemption."

But I don't think that Angel was really killing Darla because she had to die either. If that's what he was going to do, he could have killed her much earlier than he did. I think that he killed her because she was about to kill Buffy, and he didn't want that to happen. But, judging by the tears in his eyes and saying to her later that he didn't want to have to kill her again, he didn't enjoy it, at all. So, in a way, he was also kind of "proving his love" to Buffy, and proving that he wasn't evil or dangerous, although I doubt that he did it to win her gratitude. 🙂

Hopefully that makes sense. 🙂

 

[dan k]

I think its clear he loved her. The end scene of that episode when they meet at the Bronze and they both say that one of them should leave but they don't, that represents the strength of the feelings they have for one another, even at that early stage.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

But I don't think that Angel was really killing Darla because she had to die either. If that's what he was going to do, he could have killed her much earlier than he did. I think that he killed her because she was about to kill Buffy, and he didn't want that to happen. But, judging by the tears in his eyes and saying to her later that he didn't want to have to kill her again, he didn't enjoy it, at all. So, in a way, he was also kind of "proving his love" to Buffy, and proving that he wasn't evil or dangerous, although I doubt that he did it to win her gratitude. 🙂

Hopefully that makes sense. 🙂

I wouldn't agree with that, I think it's exactly as Kean said, it wasn't to prove anything it was just necessary.

 

[Wishing Oceans]

I wouldn't agree with that, I think it's exactly as Kean said, it wasn't to prove anything it was just necessary.

That's probably true. 🙂

Angel didn't kill Darla as some romantic declaration of his love, he wasn't trying to prove anything to Buffy by staking her. He was trying to protect Buffy, he wasn't looking to make any gains from the act, it wasn't an ends to a means, it was just necessary.

Why does everything that you say sound incredibly true, simple, and obvious? :tongue3:

Although, just out of curiosity, do you guys think that Angel would have still killed Darla even if Darla had never attacked Buffy/set him up?

 

[Kean]

Although, just out of curiosity, do you guys think that Angel would have still killed Darla even if Darla had never attacked Buffy/set him up?

If she hadn't given him a reason to kill her I don't believe he would have.