Faith - A Victim or Victimizer?

[Willow Rosenberg]

So, I noticed this could be a possible thread idea from another thread.

Do you think that Faith was a victim of the circumstances of her life or did she bring it on through her actions and greatly deserve her punishment?

 

[Jill_Valentine]

Ultimately, her choices were her own. She chose to kill, and she chose to repent, and she doesn't get a free pass. But there's no doubt in my mind that given the opportunities that Buffy had, Faith would have been somebody good to know. Her attitudes to men, women, trust, violence and control are all founded on what we can only assume were terrible formative circumstances. How much of her punishment is deserved is a more complex question, given that life punishes her quite a bit already, and she's all too willing to pick up the slack.

So she is to blame for her decisions, but circumstances were against her to start with.

 

[SlayerThe]

Both.

She was a victim of a poor childhood, education, family, friends, et cetera. And we all know the damage she did.

But the real question for me is, does her rough life somehow cancel out what bad she did? She really didn't have the opportunities that others had, but yet you just can't forget the bad.

 

[eponinethen]

I would say that Faith is a victim, but then again, I'd say that about most people/characters (damn me and my thoughts). I think that she had every "reason" to act the way she did. Not excuses but reasons. I understand why she did all the things she did, althought she did of course do lots of stuff that wasn't "right". Like Comma said.. that question.. No, I don't think her rough life cancels the bad things she did, at all, it only makes it understandable. It's never "OK" to do the things she did, but that doesn't mean she's not a victim. I don't think she "deserved" punishmenst either.. I'm not much for punishment in general, I don't think it solves problems, and I don't think that's what Faith needs. She can get better (obviously), people can get better and punishment is rarely the way to "make them better".
As I see it, like Jill said, Faith chose to do the things she did and act the way she acted. But the reason she chose those things, weren't her fault, that she couldn't choose, the way she was, in the beginning, or how she turned out, and so on.. The real reasons..

 

[Amber Benson]

I really think that she was a victim... She was dealt a pretty shitty hand in life, and she really had nothing she could do with it... Its hard to accept help from people, when you don't seriously know who you can trust... I think that she made a lot of bad decisions, and she sort of snowballed from there, but the fact that she stayed in prision merely because she KNEW she needed to be there, shows that she was willing and NEEDING to change..

 

[Jules]

I think she was a victim of circumstances. We saw how good Faith could be placed with the right people. If she had been brought up in circumstances like Buffy's I don't think she would have made the decisions she did.

 

[Willow02]

I think she was a victim, all my reasons have been said already.

 

[Allycat]

I voted for "Completely to Blame for her Actions." Of course, the circumstances she got in weren't optimal, far from it. In the end, however, it was her own conscious decision to do the things she did.

Now, as for punishment, I don't believe she deserved that. I don't believe in punishment whatsoever. After all, who are we, mere mortals, to decide what is right and wrong? Moreover, there is no one on this planet without sin to cast our first stone.

 

[Frenchy Faith]

Not responsible. Of course you can always "choose". But with such conditions... childhood, the scooby gang rejecting her, her Watcher, B being in every mouth, the fatherly behavior of the mayor (really he was with her) ... I wouldn't blame her. She is victims of the circumstances, though she did choose on her own to walk to the Mayor's office.

 

[Jules]

I voted for "Completely to Blame for her Actions." Of course, the circumstances she got in weren't optimal, far from it. In the end, however, it was her own conscious decision to do the things she did.

But killing the Deputy Mayor wasn't a conscious action. She reacted to the circumstances because she thought it was a vampire. That wasn't her decision to kill him.

 

[eponinethen]

No it wasn't her decision to kill Finch, definitely not, you can't blame her for that. But the things she did after that, I mean she did kill humans, she did work for the mayor and so on. Those are things she did decide to do. But as Frenchy said, I still can't blame her. I mean, she did "choose" but I understand how and why she did what she did. It wasn't the "right" thing to do, there's no excuse, but there was a reason and I do understand her. Just 'cause she is a victim doesn't mean she didn't do anything wrong, to me it only means that she had "reasons", there were things, in her past and in her life, that made choose to do these things. And it wasn't her fault that she felt the need to make these "choices", it wasn't her fault, in the beginning, that she ended up were she did. (Uh, now I'm just talking to myself and not even arguing against anyone, sorry, I'll just shut up now..)

 

[Jules]

Lol, hun. I get what your saying.

But Faith's downward spiral can be pinpointed to when she killed Finch (which wasn't a conscious choice). She only choose to work for the Mayor because of what she had done. It had divided her completely from the scoobies. Any chance of belonging went straight out the window. If she hadn't killed the Deputy Mayor she may noy have gone on to kill all those other demons in cold blood.

But because of an action that happened that she had no control over, she decided to join the Mayor. Her decision was brought about because of the circumstance of events 🙂

That's just my point of view though.

 

[eponinethen]

Yeah, that's pretty much what I meant. It was her choices, but it wasn't really her fault that she chose what she did. She was very unfortunate (extreme understatement), heh..

 

[Allycat]

Just because you understand why someone did what he or she did doesn't make it okay! I mean; I understand why Hitler did what he did... but no way in hell am I ever going to say that was okay!

As Jules said, Faith's downward spiral happened after she killed Finch. That was indeed accidental, but whichever way you want to put everything "wrong" she did after that wasn't accidental, it was by choice. Let's say Buffy and Faith had each other's personalities; do you think Faith (with Buffy's personality) would have ever worked for the Mayor?

 

[Joamna]

I'd say she was A Victim of Poor Circumstances, but it isn't that simple. I think that you are always responsible of what you do, but the circumstances in her past helps me to understand why. If bad things happen to you it affects you, and I think that what happened to Faith easely could have happened to an other cast member if they had the same experiences.

 

[SpikedBuffy]

I think that she is completly to blame for her actions.

Yes, I agree that she had a crappy life... but that does not give her reason to hurt others or let her behavior ruin her life.

It's all about overcoming the bad things in life. She clearly did not do it, and so she is to blame for her actions.

 

[Jules]

Just because you understand why someone did what he or she did doesn't make it okay! I mean; I understand why Hitler did what he did... but no way in hell am I ever going to say that was okay!

As Jules said, Faith's downward spiral happened after she killed Finch. That was indeed accidental, but whichever way you want to put everything "wrong" she did after that wasn't accidental, it was by choice. Let's say Buffy and Faith had each other's personalities; do you think Faith (with Buffy's personality) would have ever worked for the Mayor?

True, Faith choose her decisions after the events with Finch, but take away the poor circumstances that led to Finch's death and she wouldn't have needed to make them decisions. If Faith hadn't have killed Finch (victim of circumstance) she wouldn't have gone down the path she went in.

And its difficult to compare Buffy with Faith. If Buffy had done what Faith had, buffy would have gone to Giles and her friends. Buffy's up bringing and surroundings gave her that ability. But Faith, again being a victim of circumstance, being brought up with an abusive mum, made her a guarded person. Faith didn't go to anyone for help, she buried herself in denial and it broke her.

 

[Allycat]

No... I mean if Buffy and Faith had their personalities switched, not their background or anything!

And I agree that she wouldn't have gone down the bad path, if she hand't stabbed Finch. However, isn't this what life is all about? What determines our characters? How we deal with the accidental things.. the things we don't control?

 

[eponinethen]

Just because you understand why someone did what he or she did doesn't make it okay! I mean; I understand why Hitler did what he did... but no way in hell am I ever going to say that was okay!

I very much agree, that's pretty much what I've been saying. It doesn't make it okay, at all, it's still just as wrong to murder. But I understand her, which makes her a victim in my eyes. Saying she is a victim isn't the same as saying it was okey or right to do what she did, it just says it wasn't her fault to begin with, that she ended up where she was, that all those things happened that lead her to "joining the evil side". (But then again, I'd say that about most people that've done "evil" things. There is probably some "reason" why they became so screwed up or whatever.)

 

[Allycat]

But just because circumstances were in her disadvantage... doesn't mean you can't blame her! Are you saying that I shouldn't blame Hitler for the Hollocaust?


I think the problem lies in the options for answers in this poll. Regardless of whether your a victim of your circumstances when doing something wrong... you are always the one to blame for your own actions!


Of course, this also depends on your beliefs. I believe that every person comes born with the knowledge of a universal sense of what's right and wrong. If you don't believe this, then "good" and "bad" are to you a matter of nurture and wrong nurture can cause you to do wrong things, without you being responsible.