Faith - A Victim or Victimizer?

Which was Faith?

  • A Victim of Poor Circumstances

    Votes: 29 59.2%

  • Completely to Blame for her Actions

    Votes: 11 22.4%

  • Not Sure

    Votes: 9 18.4%
  • Total voters
    49
It would seem harsh but I think she is not innocent all together. She had poor conditions; no family, a watcher killed too soon... But she refused all the friendly attempts of the Scoobies. She killed a man and next thing she put the blame on Buffy. She could have said "I did it and I am sorry" but she didn't and most importantly she wasn't sorry.
 
See I would disagree with that, I think she was sorry but she had no way to say it, If she admitted she was sorry, it would be admitting she did something wrong, she lost and Faith wouldn't admit that! She believed she could ignore it and move on but it snowballed outta control and eventually she got to a point where she couldn't go back, and couldn't admit she was sorry - Or so she thought!
 
W
Winifred
Agreed.
She was clearly upset about it. Its not like she just killed someone and thought "oh well". She looked horrified at the time. And then when Buffy tried to talk to her about it beforre she told her she got rid of the body, she did look genuinely concerned. Even after she lied to Giles, when she said sorry to Giles, to me it sounded like she was saying sorry about more that "Buffy killing the guy". And then you saw the girls snnoping in City Hall. When she found the picture she was clearly upset. But she covered it cos she didnt wanna feel vurnerable.

The only way she could deal with it was to pretend to herself (and try to make herself believe) that it wasnt a big deal. People deal with things in different ways. that was hers.

And by that point, she'd done so much (killed a guy, lied about it, blamed Buffy) That she couldnt get out of it. Then Angel nearly got through to her. And Wes screwed it up.
 
I totally agree with BEG. In fact I just read the post I wrote when this thread started, and it still totally stands.
 
Black Eye Guy said:
See I would disagree with that, I think she was sorry but she had no way to say it, If she admitted she was sorry, it would be admitting she did something wrong, she lost and Faith wouldn't admit that! She believed she could ignore it and move on but it snowballed outta control and eventually she got to a point where she couldn't go back, and couldn't admit she was sorry - Or so she thought!
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Exactly... One of the things I love about Faith is that she works this way. Which really isn't good for her, but it is very realistic and makes her into an awesome character (in my opinion).

Again, this is not saying that Faith was innocent. It is not to blame anyone else, it is just an explanation. Of course Faith did a lot of bad things, no one says she didn't, no one says she's innocent.. But there are still reasons to love her as a character, and there are reasons why she acted the way she did...
 
Black Eye Guy
Black Eye Guy
a totally awesome character!!
No matter what people go through in their past....it's not an excuse to do terrible things. Everyone has things to deal with but we are all still responsible for our actions and we all still have a choice.
 
But's it's very easy to say that, yes everyone has things to deal with but most people dont have to deal with what Faith had to deal with, and of course everyone has a choice, and for someone looking it it is easy to point out where they could have made that choice, but Faith couldn't see that choice, she didn't believe she had a choice.
 
Of course you have a choice, but dealing with something like murdering someone (by accident) it isnt that easy. Faith was in major denial. And got herself in so deep, she couldnt get out of it until eventually, she thought the only way out was to get Angel to kill her. Imagine what she must have went through.
I know quite a bit about denial, and although its not nearly to that extent, I can understand what happened.
Choice, or not, she couldnt deal.
 
To explain that comment above, I agree she's not a victim in the sense that, I just cant see Faith as the victim type. everything Ive said still holds true. But even though she dealt with it all in such a bad way, I just cant see her as a victim. She still managed ok. Yeah, she went evil, but she couldnt help that. But she found someone who loved her. The Mayor very much did. All she wanted was someone to love her and she got a dad-like person. Under different circumstances, it could have turned out so much different.
Yeah I chose victim in the poll, but thats only cos it was slightly more right than victimiser.
I just cant see Faith as a victim.
Plus, I may be slightly drunk and regret agreeing with you in the morning.
 
At first, like in season 3 of Buffy, I didn't think Faith was a victim. I mean she did a lot of F***ed up stuff to Buffy and everyone esle around her. But when she went on to Angel in the 5 by 5 ep and Santuary, I felt for her because she wanted to change. But it was hard for everyone to accept it because nobody really sees a psycho killer turning over a new leaf. So, I would say no about Faith being a victim. Even though she was treated a bit harshly afterwards, she did that to herself because of all the pain she caused everyone.
 
I still can't justify how Faith acted no matter what she'd been through. There are people who go through horrible abuse, etc....things even worse than what Faith went through and they don't end up acting like Faith did.

I still stand by my belief that there is absolutely no excuse for how Faith acted. She was still capable of knowing right from wrong and whether or not she THOUGHT she had a choice....the fact is SHE DID have a choice.

She chose to act how she did....nobody forced her, she wasn't a victim....she made the choice. She could just as easily have said, "hey I know I've been through some hard stuff but I don't have to become a crazed lunatic because of it". Instead she decided to let her anger and negative feelings control her.

No excuse.
 
Kimm said:
I still can't justify how Faith acted no matter what she'd been through. There are people who go through horrible abuse, etc....things even worse than what Faith went through and they don't end up acting like Faith did.
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That doesnt mean all people dont end up like that. some poeple handle things differently. Just cos some people manage to deal, doesnt mean everyone can.

I still stand by my belief that there is absolutely no excuse for how Faith acted. She was still capable of knowing right from wrong and whether or not she THOUGHT she had a choice....the fact is SHE DID have a choice.
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But thats the point. If she didnt think she had a choice, then how could she choose? Other people could see she did, but theyre looking at it from a different perspective.

She chose to act how she did....nobody forced her, she wasn't a victim....she made the choice. She could just as easily have said, "hey I know I've been through some hard stuff but I don't have to become a crazed lunatic because of it". Instead she decided to let her anger and negative feelings control her.

No excuse.
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And as far as I can see, she didnt make the choice. She got her self in so deep that she thought thats all she could do. She was in denial. Denial does stupid things to people. It makes people act crazy and not see that theyre wrong. Anger and negative feelings have a strong effect on people. You might be able to control them, but not everyone can.
 
Just because some people can't control feelings of anger and don't think they have a choice in their behavior doesn't make it right.

If that's how the world worked then there would be people walking around all over the place blaming bad childhoods for their negative behavior and not being held responsible for it.

In my opinion....Faith was responsible for her actions....nobody else was to blame except for herself. The fact she was unable to make mature, rational decisions is not a "get out of jail free" card.
 
Dia DeLa Muerte said:
Erm......well they do, or have you not seen the advice from Dr Phil, Trisha Goddard or actual psychologists
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yes thats right, thats all we do...blame you parents everyone, they f'd you up, you had no say in it. lets ignore everything that happened since Freud and his followers...the whole cognitive-behavioural revolution and choice theory just didn't happen.
 
Yes I realize that people try to use their parents, bad childhood experiences, etc as an excuse for their behavior....but that doesn't make it right.

Am I the only one who thinks this???

I just find it incredibly hard to believe that having bad experiences in the past could be considered a viable excuse for that type of behavior.
 
to make an excuse and not accept responsibility for the behaviour, no, but to help explain how the behaviour came to be, yes.
 
When did any of us say what she did was right? In fact Im sure Ive sai the exact opposite.
Just because i was justifying it, doesnt mean i think she was right in any way.
 
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