Faith's Fighting Ability

[white avenger]

Something that hasn't been mentioned here so far is that Buffy and Faith both received their initial training from different Watchers, so, inherent, genetic, Slayer fighting ability not withstanding, their fighting styles, on the most basic, instinctual level, would be different. That, alone, could make a difference in their fighting ability, even considering the fact that the two girls trained together for a short while.

 

[caitaintdead]

I definitely agree with the people that have bought up Faith's love of violence.

Faith loves what she does, she enjoys inflicting pain on other people due to her emotionally damaged upbringing. She is finally in a position where she is able to win every fight, every time and she gets off on the thrill of beating someone up. Buffy has always felt uncomfortable with the thought of being a slayer, a killer, someone who inflicts pain. Buffy also understands the difference between inflicting pain on demons that are capable of killing innocent humans, and inflicting pain on people that are not inherently evil.

Buffy would never be able to truly 'beat down' another human in my opinion, she lost her drive and skill in Selfless and didn't have it in her to kill Anyanka. Faith, on the other hand, had it in her to torture Wesley and it seemed very likely during Season 3 that she was close to killing Xander and Willow.

 

[white avenger]

I definitely agree with the people that have bought up Faith's love of violence.

Faith loves what she does, she enjoys inflicting pain on other people due to her emotionally damaged upbringing. She is finally in a position where she is able to win every fight, every time and she gets off on the thrill of beating someone up. Buffy has always felt uncomfortable with the thought of being a slayer, a killer, someone who inflicts pain. Buffy also understands the difference between inflicting pain on demons that are capable of killing innocent humans, and inflicting pain on people that are not inherently evil.

Buffy would never be able to truly 'beat down' another human in my opinion, she lost her drive and skill in Selfless and didn't have it in her to kill Anyanka. Faith, on the other hand, had it in her to torture Wesley and it seemed very likely during Season 3 that she was close to killing Xander and Willow.

I don't think that Faith loves violence as much as she enjoys the contest, She revels in her strength and takes pride in her skill, certainly, but more like a champion athlete than anything more sinister. Her enthusiasm makes her take more chances than Buffy normally would, but that's just more her love of "the game," as Spike would put it than any real desire to inflict pain just for any sadistic pleasure.

Faith is like the gifted athlete who sees the competition as a way of proving that she has genuine worth, in answer to those who, all of her life, have taken great pleasure in putting her down.

Neither girl enjoys the aspect of cruelty and the necessity of inflicting pain on others, they simply recognize the fact that inflicting pain and death iare aspects of their calling. Faith was no more cruel in her torture of Wes than Buffy was when she put the crucifix in the vampire's mouth in Season 2. Both acts were means to specific ends. Buffy knew that Giles was in danger, time was of the essence, and action had to be taken immediately. Faith, on the other hand, knew that Angel would doubtlessly figure out where she was, what she was doing, and come to Wes' aid.

Buffy was trying to rescue someone who she loved. Faith was trying to commit suicide by vampire.

 

[caitaintdead]

I don't think that Faith loves violence as much as she enjoys the contest, She revels in her strength and takes pride in her skill, certainly, but more like a champion athlete than anything more sinister. Her enthusiasm makes her take more chances than Buffy normally would, but that's just more her love of "the game," as Spike would put it than any real desire to inflict pain just for any sadistic pleasure.

Faith is like the gifted athlete who sees the competition as a way of proving that she has genuine worth, in answer to those who, all of her life, have taken great pleasure in putting her down.

Neither girl enjoys the aspect of cruelty and the necessity of inflicting pain on others, they simply recognize the fact that inflicting pain and death iare aspects of their calling. Faith was no more cruel in her torture of Wes than Buffy was when she put the crucifix in the vampire's mouth in Season 2. Both acts were means to specific ends. Buffy knew that Giles was in danger, time was of the essence, and action had to be taken immediately. Faith, on the other hand, knew that Angel would doubtlessly figure out where she was, what she was doing, and come to Wes' aid.

Buffy was trying to rescue someone who she loved. Faith was trying to commit suicide by vampire.

I completely understand where you are coming from, I do. However...

I can't see how Buffy putting a crucifix in a vampires mouth and Faith torturing Wesley are comparable acts.

I haven't seen Five by Five in quite some time, the last time I saw it was probably over 2 years ago, so I may be incorrect but from what I remember but wasn't she attempting to kill Angel for money and saving her own skin and she was using Wesley as bait to lure Angel to the apartment? Many a murderer has broken down once they have been caught and sought redemption. This is fantastic, and in the world of Buffy (and in the world which we live in) I do not believe in the death penalty of humans with souls. I'm glad that Faith was able to redeem herself somewhat, and if not redeem herself, she was able to look at what she did with clarity.

I still can't quite comprehend the act of torturing Wesley as anything but a callous, nasty and incredibly violent act against a defenseless human being with a soul for hours on end.

The argument that she was on a self destruct path is a valid one until you look at how long she tortured Wesley for. If the capture of Wesley was simply to bait Angel then why did she insist on continuously torturing Wesley? There was absolutely no need, Angel would have come anyway.

 

[thetopher]

I haven't seen Five by Five in quite some time, the last time I saw it was probably over 2 years ago, so I may be incorrect but from what I remember but wasn't she attempting to kill Angel for money and saving her own skin and she was using Wesley as bait to lure Angel to the apartment?

That's...not what happened.
Faith wanted Angel to kill her from the first. Torturing Wesley was partly to incentive-ize Angel, Faith would brutally hurt his friend/colleague, convince Angel that she was an irredeemable monster and 'get him in the game a little' so he would in turn kill her.
Faith had already given Angel an opportunity to take her out and, in her eyes, he had choked because of his 'tortured soul'. So she needed to make Angel do it.

So it was partly calculated and it was partly revenge. In her mind, until recently, Faith had thought of herself and Buffy as being 'assigned' roles from the first. Buffy had all the advantages and perks and Faith got nothing, so of course it was gonna turn out the way it did. In other words 'it's not my fault' Faith rationalizes.

But after the events in 'Who Are You?' Faith realizes that it was about choice. Buffy chooses to be good just like Faith chose to be evil- so it is her fault, she is evil- but its also Wesley's fault for not being 'a better watcher' and making Faith 'a more positive role-model'.
Faith goes into a long and very important speech about destiny and choice- a big clue to her state of mind.

 

[vellavu]

Spoiler

Faith is already a much stronger fighter. Given time she will grow even stronger because she doesn't have so many mampy pampy boohoos.

The Scoobies fought a bunch of new breed vamps for 40 minutes and managed to kill almost none, while Faith can kill several in a row without sweating. However in London even Fred can take several out so it's hard to say. Maybe London vampires are weaker?

The power rank was a mess from the start. Now it totally stopped making sense.

 

[gillianmorsee]

I think this is relevant: Remember in Dopplegangland, when Buffy was about to stake Vamp Willow, but then real Willow screams "Buffy No!" and Buffy stops herself at the last second? I always thought that was a parallel to Bad Girls, when Buffy screams "Faith No!" and Faith can't stop herself in time from killing Allan Finch. It shows that Buffy is better trained than Faith, or at the very least has better reflexes. But even with better reflexes, Faith was still as good of a fighter as Buffy, not only because she reveled in it, but because she had nothing to lose. Buffy wins in the end of their showdown in Graduation Day, because she is the better fighter, but Faith had a different kind of advantage on Buffy, which is why they were more evenly matched.