Faith's "Home" In Sunnydale

[white avenger]

Why did Faith live in a motel that rented by the hour and probably only changed the sheets on a weekly basis? I'm not talking about why she chose the place, that's been discussed several times before. (Probably because it was all that she could afford, and they didn;t ask fir I D to register) What I mean is, why would Giles, as her Watcher, allow her to live in a place like that?

As concerned as Giles has always been about Buffy's welfare, even to the point of interfering in her life when he actually had no right to do so, he would never have allowed her to live in a place like that, especially when she was that age. He was Faith's Watcher, too, and had a professional obligation to see to her welfare, even if he didn't feel as close to her as he did to Buffy. The Council probably even gave him an allowance to cover her expenses, and he might very well have given that money to her, but, still, why would he allow her to live in a flea trap like that? Traditionally, from what we have seen, i wasn't that uncommon for the Slayer to even live with her Watcher, and if Giles' apartment couldn't accommodate two people, there were certainly others available that could. He could have moved to larger quarters. So, the question is, why did Giles not insist that Faith have better living quarters, either with him or separately, but better than what she had?

 

[Robb Stark]

Yep, it's a pretty big plot hole. It doesn't do a whole lot for Giles' fatherly, caring and protective image when you give it more than a cursory thought (although to be fair, this is the same Giles who was "just following orders" by horribly abusing Buffy's trust and literally drugging her to be thrown into a house-of-horrors with a souped up vampire, so maybe it isn't all that surprising. But then, he felt really bad about it, so I guess that makes it okay 🙄)

Honest answer, even though it isn't a very good one? Because Joss and company probably never even thought about it. They wanted to portray Faith as the "rough-and-tumble bad Slayer. And see how tough she is!? See!!!?", and having her live in a sleazy, fifth-rate motel on the wrong-side-of-the-tracks lends credibility to that, even if doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Likewise, when you think about it, why didn't Buffy offer Faith a place to stay, especially when they got super tight in the middle of the season? Joyce obviously liked Faith (at first at least) and pushed Buffy at times to have her around more often. They have a huge house. Just a few seasons down the road Buffy has virtually all of her crew living with her, and by S7 about 15 girls she doesn't even know. Why not Faith?

 

[Cordy_Chase]

Honest answer, even though it isn't a very good one? Because Joss and company probably never even thought about it. They wanted to portray Faith as the "rough-and-tumble bad Slayer. And see how tough she is!? See!!!?", and having her live in a sleazy, fifth-rate motel on the wrong-side-of-the-tracks lends credibility to that, even if doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

This. My theory is that her living conditions were meant to reflect her independence, pride and estrangement. Which is why she wasn't into accepting charity. She almost declined to spend Christmas at the Summers' let alone allowing someone else to handle her living expenses.

On Giles' part, his not even expressing the concern can honestly only be explained as an inconsistency. There is no sense in his lack of relationship with Faith Vs. his inappropriate affection for Buffy or even his brief connection with Kendra who had brought some knowledge with her which fascinated him. At least prior Faith's first human slay. It's easy to shun her after the behavior that leads to, they all did.

 

[Xin Rong]

Ignoring the fact that Joss and the writers may not have thought about it position, for me it always annoyed me that people like Joyce did not offer her somewhere to stay, it may be my own personal experiences that shape this view, but where I grew up (which wasn't the most affluent of areas) if a young person, borderline 'child' needed somewhere to stay then it they would have been taken in, almost forced too. although i cede joyce some respect for her actions in amends, for me this meant that she was aware of faith's situation and took a casual position, after all due the to the acquisition of dawn, then we know Joyce could have accommodated faith, and if she had taken that step then faiths life would have no doubtedly taken a different route. This may be a cultural thing, as technically joyce etc had no responsibility for faith, where i am from if you can help you do, but that doesn't seem to be the philosophy re faith

 

[Zeppelin92]

Was Giles really Faith's watcher though? Faith had watcher who was killed by Kakistos I think and she showed up in Sunnydale after that. Giles was fired by the Watcher's council so on the technical side Wesley was really both their Watcher.

I think Faith stayed in a motel because she was more independent than Buffy. Giles wasn't nearly as woorried about Faith because she fit the typical mold as a Slayer being independent. Buffy was kind of coddled by Giles which was a problem that manifested in the later seasons.

Also Faith was stubborn, so even if Giles or even Buffy had offered her a place to live off screen, she more than likely would have refused.

 

[Cordy_Chase]

Was Giles really Faith's watcher though? Faith had watcher who was killed by Kakistos I think and she showed up in Sunnydale after that. Giles was fired by the Watcher's council so on the technical side Wesley was really both their Watcher.

I have thought about this as well but didn't Faith show up before Giles was fired? Thus for a short time, Giles would have been her watcher.

 

[white avenger]

Was Giles really Faith's watcher though? Faith had watcher who was killed by Kakistos I think and she showed up in Sunnydale after that.

Giles was assigned as Faith's Watcher on a temporary basis until he was fired by the Counsel, at which time Wes became the Watcher for both Slayers. Wes' youth and inexperience would probably be the excuse for why he didn't insist that faith find better living quarters, or, in fact, even inquire as to where she lived at all, and certainly he would have seen it as inappropriate to have her live with him. Giles had none of those excuses.

 

[Cordy_Chase]

Giles was assigned as Faith's Watcher on a temporary basis until he was fired by the Counsel, at which time Wes became the Watcher for both Slayers.

Let's not forget also that in between Giles and Wesley she also had that woman, her name escapes me right now but her excuse is obvious, she turned out to be evil. This is another reason Faith was so isolated and wasn't one to accept help. Those whom she let get too close end up dead or evil. She says this herself in the episode with the woman watcher.

Wes' youth and inexperience would probably be the excuse for why he didn't insist that faith find better living quarters, or, in fact, even inquire as to where she lived at all, and certainly he would have seen it as inappropriate to have her live with him. Giles had none of those excuses.

Thank you for this, I have realized that I had forgotten to address Wesley's failure to be concerned. I don't account it to his inexperience though, but rather his not being a very sentimental person until 'Angel'. As a watcher he was all business which is why I express in the thread questioning his being selected that this is why despite his inexperience. Since Giles was fired exactly for being sentimental. This now leads me to wonder if it's against watcher code for them to have personal concerns for their slayers.

 

[Ethan Reigns]

@ SoulOfAngelus

You are thinking of Gwendolyn Post in "Reveleations" 3ABB07. She thought that the Spartan accommodations Faith lived in was perfectly suitable for a slayer. She had no interest in how any of this was going to be paid for and the lack of concern continued into Season 6 where Buffy was forced to work at Doublemeat Palace to pay the bills.

 

[Cordy_Chase]

@ SoulOfAngelus

You are thinking of Gwendolyn Post in "Reveleations" 3ABB07. She thought that the Spartan accommodations Faith lived in was perfectly suitable for a slayer. She had no interest in how any of this was going to be paid for

Knew her last name started with a P.

and the lack of concern continued into Season 6 where Buffy was forced to work at Doublemeat Palace to pay the bills.

This further backs up my suspicion that a watcher is not supposed to have personal concerns for their slayers, Giles was just overly affectionate with Buffy. Which apparently he seems to change in season 6 from this claim unless she once again changes watchers. Being on season 5, I don't actually want you to answer that.

 

[Lyri]

I honestly think this runs both ways.

Giles IS overly attached to Buffy, but that has more to do with Giles' possible inner-rebel still rebelling against the WC.

But, then again, we know from Kendra, Kennedy, Vi, and possibly others, that Watchers are very often care for their charges from a young age - Kendra was so young when she was taken from her parents that she doesn't remember them, Kennedy was in training from the age of eight (but it's possible she didn't live with her Watcher, given that she had a step-sister, unless that step-sister was, in fact, her Watcher's daughter) and Vi spoke about her Watcher showing her a picture of a vampire in a tone that suggests that moment too place a long time ago. So they DO care for their Slayers/Potentials, or at least, there's a precedent.

Giles, however, was faced with not one, but TWO unconventional Slayers, which, two Slayers in itself was unheard of and thought impossible, and it's possible that Giles just took his cue from Buffy, who wouldn't be moved from the idea of having her own personal and private life and therefore, assumed that Faith would be the same.

I don't like to think about Giles just not caring enough to offer to pay for somewhere else. Wesley and Post, yes, but not Giles, or Buffy. My personal head-canon is that Faith just didn't want 'charity', from either Buffy or Giles, and turned down their offers. Giles, having been taught that a Slayer should live more like Faith than Buffy, simply agreed to Faith's insistence.

 

[Cordy_Chase]

I honestly think this runs both ways.

Giles IS overly attached to Buffy, but that has more to do with Giles' possible inner-rebel still rebelling against the WC.

But, then again, we know from Kendra, Kennedy, Vi, and possibly others, that Watchers are very often care for their charges from a young age - Kendra was so young when she was taken from her parents that she doesn't remember them, Kennedy was in training from the age of eight (but it's possible she didn't live with her Watcher, given that she had a step-sister, unless that step-sister was, in fact, her Watcher's daughter) and Vi spoke about her Watcher showing her a picture of a vampire in a tone that suggests that moment too place a long time ago. So they DO care for their Slayers/Potentials, or at least, there's a precedent.

What you described are watchers who nurture their slayers' calling, significantly different from showing concern for their personal well being.

Giles, however, was faced with not one, but TWO unconventional Slayers, which, two Slayers in itself was unheard of and thought impossible, and it's possible that Giles just took his cue from Buffy, who wouldn't be moved from the idea of having her own personal and private life and therefore, assumed that Faith would be the same.

I don't like to think about Giles just not caring enough to offer to pay for somewhere else. Wesley and Post, yes, but not Giles, or Buffy. My personal head-canon is that Faith just didn't want 'charity', from either Buffy or Giles, and turned down their offers. Giles, having been taught that a Slayer should live more like Faith than Buffy, simply agreed to Faith's insistence.

This is a good point, I honestly can not grasp the idea that Giles could have no concern for a young wayward girl with no one but as with Buffy would respect and nurture Faith's desires.

 

[itssmiletime]

Fact is that not even once, on screen, we saw Giles enquire where Faith was living and how she was doing. Not even trying. Even if Faith would refuse any attempts at charity (although she accepted the apartment the Mayor bought for her with glee). It's kind of hard to see any noble characteristics of Giles, considering, he, you know, drugged his slayer who is has a 'father's love for the child'. Giles, who sincerly thought in Consequences, that by not involving anyone, that the issue of the Deputy Mayor's death would just go away.

I never got why most of the fanbase, even the show itself, seemed to blame Faith's downfall on Wesley, despite Giles being Faith's watcher for a longer period of time, and the first phase Faith said to Wesley was 'screw this'.

Long answer short: Giles main focus was Buffy, and hence, Faith was left out.

 

[Cordy_Chase]

Fact is that not even once, on screen, we saw Giles enquire where Faith was living and how she was doing. Not even trying. Even if Faith would refuse any attempts at charity (although she accepted the apartment the Mayor bought for her with glee). It's kind of hard to see any noble characteristics of Giles, considering, he, you know, drugged his slayer who is has a 'father's love for the child'. Giles, who sincerly thought in Consequences, that by not involving anyone, that the issue of the Deputy Mayor's death would just go away.

I never got why most of the fanbase, even the show itself, seemed to blame Faith's downfall on Wesley, despite Giles being Faith's watcher for a longer period of time, and the first phase Faith said to Wesley was 'screw this'.

Long answer short: Giles main focus was Buffy, and hence, Faith was left out.

All excellent points raised here and now I am seeing something with the bringing up of her accepting gifts from the Mayor. He was to Faith as Giles is to Buffy; a fatherly figure who coddled her.

 

[ILLYRIAN]

Yep, poor Faith. There she was, after witnessing the torture and murder of her watcher by a vampire she escaped, after being to scared to move. Terrified by that happening to her she went to seek the protection from her hero; Buffy.
Guess what, she learns that Buffy is dating a vampire! The watcher she is told to adhere to allows her to live in a flea pit, the next watcher is just as bad.
Given the crap she faced in Sunnydale, is it any wonder she turned bad?
Oh, and for those who spout that Faith said she wouldn't accept charity, what happened when she went to work for the mayor? She was given a nice apartment that was fully furnished to live in. Did Faith refuse saying she doesn't want charity? Nope, Faith was excited to be treated that well.

 

[Lyri]

Oh, and for those who spout that Faith said she wouldn't accept charity, what happened when she went to work for the mayor? She was given a nice apartment that was fully furnished to live in. Did Faith refuse saying she doesn't want charity? Nope, Faith was excited to be treated that well.

There is one major difference in the 'charity' Faith might have seen in being given handouts by Giles or Buffy and what she accepted from the Mayor - she was WORKING for the Major. She wasn't just taking from him for nothing, she was earning her keep by doing the Mayor's dirty work and killing for him when he needed it.

Taking money from Giles would have been just that, taking money from him for nothing, making her feel cheap. But she was providing a service to the Mayor, a service that couldn't be provided by anyone else, making her unique and valuable.

 

[itssmiletime]

There is one major difference in the 'charity' Faith might have seen in being given handouts by Giles or Buffy and what she accepted from the Mayor - she was WORKING for the Major. She wasn't just taking from him for nothing, she was earning her keep by doing the Mayor's dirty work and killing for him when he needed it.

Taking money from Giles would have been just that, taking money from him for nothing, making her feel cheap. But she was providing a service to the Mayor, a service that couldn't be provided by anyone else, making her unique and valuable.

Well, even though Faith was working for the Mayor, the way the Mayor treated her and 'paid' her was unconvential and clearly, loving. He didn't pay her by cash. He bought her clothes, living space, playstations... kind of like a parent more than a boss. He went truly beyond for Faith.

And about Faith feeling 'cheap' well, my original point is that Giles didn't even try, on screen, to approach her about her lifestyle. That's pretty bad. Even if Faith felt cheap, Giles could've reassured, supported her, and made sure she didn't think it was cheap.

 

[Ethan Reigns]

In "Life Serial" 6ABB05, Giles gives Buffy a cheque to pay of the mounting expenses:

GILES: Go easy on yourself, will you? I mean, you don't have to figure the whole thing out at once, you know, job and everything. You're pushing yourself too hard.

BUFFY: The nice people at the phone company? Seem to think it's not hard enough.

GILES: Well, maybe there's something I can do about that. (takes a folded piece of paper from his pocket) This is, um ... I...

Giles turns it over and over in his hands, then holds it out to Buffy.

GILES: It's for you.

BUFFY: (takes it) A check?

She unfolds the check, looks at the amount, looks stunned.

BUFFY: This is, is too much, I can't take it.

GILES: Well, tear it up then. (reaches for it)

BUFFY: (snatches it away from him) No! I was just being polite. (smiles) I'm taking the money.

Giles smiles, leans on the bed. Buffy looks at the check again.

BUFFY: This is, this is great. This is more than great.

Giles puts his hand on her shoulder. She looks up at him.

BUFFY: I don't ... really know how to say this ... (softly) but it's a little like having Mom back.

GILES: In this scenario, I am your mother?

BUFFY: Wanna be my shiftless absentee father?

Giles grins a little, then pulls a serious face.

GILES: Is there some sort of, um, rakish uncle?

BUFFY: (smiles) I'm just saying ... (seriously) Thank you. So much.

Buffy tries to get up, groaning in pain. Giles gets up, helps her stand.

BUFFY: I'm gonna ... show this to Dawn. She loves it when things get easy.

She walks to the door, looking at the check. Pauses in the doorway, turns back to Giles.

BUFFY: I just ... wanna tell you ... that, um ... this ... makes me feel safe. Knowing you're always gonna be here.

Giles gives her a smile and a nod. But as soon as Buffy turns to leave the room, his smile turns to a worried frown and he sighs.

This is the point where Giles begins to believe that he is standing in Buffy's way and that she will never grow up if he remains there. Glies is being paid by the Watchers' Council at this point, so he does have some money. Other than slayers living with their watchers, this is the only instance I know of where a slayer is paid by her watcher.

 

[white avenger]

There is one major difference in the 'charity' Faith might have seen in being given handouts by Giles or Buffy and what she accepted from the Mayor - she was WORKING for the Major. She wasn't just taking from him for nothing, she was earning her keep by doing the Mayor's dirty work and killing for him when he needed it.

Taking money from Giles would have been just that, taking money from him for nothing, making her feel cheap. But she was providing a service to the Mayor, a service that couldn't be provided by anyone else, making her unique and valuable.

But Faith was, as the Slayer, working for the Watchers' Council. Despite their seeming attitude that Slayers were pretty much a disposable, easily renewable resource, it would still seem to be in their best interest to keep their current cannon fodder at least well fed and sufficiently housed in order for her to do the job they expected her to do. And, as the Council's representative in Sunnydale, the duty of dispersing that pay should have fallen to Giles.

 

[Cordy_Chase]

There is one major difference in the 'charity' Faith might have seen in being given handouts by Giles or Buffy and what she accepted from the Mayor - she was WORKING for the Major. She wasn't just taking from him for nothing, she was earning her keep by doing the Mayor's dirty work and killing for him when he needed it.

Taking money from Giles would have been just that, taking money from him for nothing, making her feel cheap. But she was providing a service to the Mayor, a service that couldn't be provided by anyone else, making her unique and valuable.

Slayers serve under the counsel and not even of their own free will as Faith was for the Mayor. So they're doing someone else's work as well.