Faith's "Home" In Sunnydale

[Lyri]

Slayers serve under the counsel and not even of their own free will as Faith was for the Mayor. So they're doing someone else's work as well.

Yeah, but that's hardly the same thing, is it?

Faith CHOSE to work for the Mayor, she didn't have to do it and as she was, she might have felt like it was an actual job, whereas her work for the Council wasn't really work at all. She was there tool, sent to where they wanted her and her life wasn't her own. That's why I think it's different when she accepted things from the Mayor, because she thought it was an actual job where she deserved to get paid, so much different to her Calling, where she was literally picked off the street.

@ILLYRIAN said: Yes, but she would have been working for The Watchers Council as a slayer.

Her 'job' for the Council wasn't even remotely similar to what she had with the Mayor. The Slayers don't 'work' for the Council, they are tools and weapons that they use how they see fit. It's one of the main reasons I think that Faith rebelled so hard in the first place.

And, again, as [MENTION=12171]Ethan Reigns[/MENTION] pointed out, Giles never, ever gave Buffy cash - not until S6 when he felt she needed it. He was just lucky that Buffy had the life she did when he was assigned to her. And that might have contributed to his feelings towards Faith. Buffy didn't need him, because she had her own life, so maybe he just assumed that Faith would be the same. After all, he had no experience with Slayers other than Buffy. Even Kendra wasn't an open book with him, we have no idea where she lived. Her Watcher might have kicked her out the second she was Called or turned 16, whichever came first. We just don't know.

 

[itssmiletime]

Yeah, but that's hardly the same thing, is it?

Faith CHOSE to work for the Mayor, she didn't have to do it and as she was, she might have felt like it was an actual job, whereas her work for the Council wasn't really work at all. She was there tool, sent to where they wanted her and her life wasn't her own. That's why I think it's different when she accepted things from the Mayor, because she thought it was an actual job where she deserved to get paid, so much different to her Calling, where she was literally picked off the street.



Her 'job' for the Council wasn't even remotely similar to what she had with the Mayor. The Slayers don't 'work' for the Council, they are tools and weapons that they use how they see fit. It's one of the main reasons I think that Faith rebelled so hard in the first place.

And, again, as [MENTION=12171]Ethan Reigns[/MENTION] pointed out, Giles never, ever gave Buffy cash - not until S6 when he felt she needed it. He was just lucky that Buffy had the life she did when he was assigned to her. And that might have contributed to his feelings towards Faith. Buffy didn't need him, because she had her own life, so maybe he just assumed that Faith would be the same. After all, he had no experience with Slayers other than Buffy. Even Kendra wasn't an open book with him, we have no idea where she lived. Her Watcher might have kicked her out the second she was Called or turned 16, whichever came first. We just don't know.

This isn't an issue of payment, persay- it's a persons welfare. If Buffy's welfare was somewhat deprived, I'm very certain Giles would've stepped in. Also, whilst I get what you are saying about Giles, that doesn't excuse his behaviour, at all. Giles could've not given Faith cash- but a place to stay, food and shelter.

 

[Lyri]

Giles could've not given Faith cash- but a place to stay, food and shelter.

Like I said before, we don't know how Faith would have reacted to that kind of charity. Which is exactly what she would have seen it as, because she never reacted to being a Slayer the same way that Buffy did. Buffy blamed Slaying for taking over her life, for making her a freak. Faith didn't. Faith saw it that Slaying WAS her life, it was who she was and she didn't ask for anything or felt like she needed anything because she had nothing that she needed other than Slaying.

But working for the Mayor was different. She was using the skills she had been given in order to service someone else. Not to protect the world or innocent people, but to better someone else's life. She might not have been dealing with a full deck when she was in the Mayor's employ, but she knew enough to take that money because she felt she deserved THAT.

And, like I also said - though I don't know if it was this thread or another one - but Faith only went postal AFTER Buffy started to show that she cared about Faith. THAT is what Faith couldn't deal with, knowing that she was cared for by someone and it's the reason why she went even further off the deep end after she switched bodies with Buffy, because she found out what it was like to be loved and cared about.

 

[itssmiletime]

Like I said before, we don't know how Faith would have reacted to that kind of charity. Which is exactly what she would have seen it as, because she never reacted to being a Slayer the same way that Buffy did. Buffy blamed Slaying for taking over her life, for making her a freak. Faith didn't. Faith saw it that Slaying WAS her life, it was who she was and she didn't ask for anything or felt like she needed anything because she had nothing that she needed other than Slaying.

But working for the Mayor was different. She was using the skills she had been given in order to service someone else. Not to protect the world or innocent people, but to better someone else's life. She might not have been dealing with a full deck when she was in the Mayor's employ, but she knew enough to take that money because she felt she deserved THAT.

And, like I also said - though I don't know if it was this thread or another one - but Faith only went postal AFTER Buffy started to show that she cared about Faith. THAT is what Faith couldn't deal with, knowing that she was cared for by someone and it's the reason why she went even further off the deep end after she switched bodies with Buffy, because she found out what it was like to be loved and cared about.

The fact that Faith went downhill is irrelevant, dislike of charity. Fact is he never attempted to offer, at all- even if Faith would have rejected, we do not know that for sure. She ended up accepted Joyce's invitation for christmas, after all. How Faith would've reacted is no excuse at all for Giles actions, or lack of. I never viewed Faith as a character that was always going to become evil from the start- the inital idiotic reactions (oh Buffy, so, so, so naive and dumb) to Faith 'killing a man' were the factors, not 'love'.

Giles managed to see Buffy beyond being simply- a 'slayer' (for example, him willing to go after the Master in Prophecy Girl).

So Faith being a 'slayer' and her calling doesn't work either- Giles has two slayers, one he sees as a human being, the other as a slayer.

No excuses for Giles, at all.

 

[white avenger]

Giles managed to see Buffy beyond being simply- a 'slayer' (for example, him willing to go after the Master in Prophecy Girl).

So Faith being a 'slayer' and her calling doesn't work either- Giles has two slayers, one he sees as a human being, the other as a slayer.

No excuses for Giles, at all.

Plus, as far as whatever Faith would or wouldn't have refused, I have no doubt that, if it had been Buffy living alone in a rent-by-the-hour fleabag hotel, Giles simply wouldn't have taken no for an answer or deemed it none of his business. The series is filled with examples of him doing what he thought was best for Buffy, even when she didn't want, or specifically told him not to interfere, even as late as the 7th Season, when she was obviously an adult and capable of making her own decisions, and on into Season 8. Giles never hesitated to act in what he considered to be Buffy's behalf, but it wasn't until Season 8 that he ever had anything but the most casual relationship with Faith, and even then, he made it clear from the start that the only reason that he was asking her for help was because he was no longer on good terms with Buffy.

Ironically, as we saw in Season 8, once he DID actually spend some time together, they became a quite efficient team, and quite close. Too bad he hadn't bothered to do that back in Season 3, or Mayor Wilkins might have had to face two Slayers in opposition to the Ascension rather than one.

 

[Gum Gnome33]

I think the reason Giles (and Buffy for that matter) are portrayed as relatively indifferent to Faith's home life is to highlight--by means of contrast--the effectiveness of the Mayor's "generosity" toward Faith with regard to her comfort and well-being.

Joss sets up this running notion throughout his works in which monsters are made; either literally as is the case with vampires, or sometimes as a result of neglect or torment by others, (assuming certain psychological characteristics exist as well).

We see very often in the 'verse that the human monsters are characters who have been neglected by family members, (what do you think Warren and Andrew's parents were like?) and bullied or ignored, (Jonathan).

With Faith, we have a very lost young woman with absolutely no family or friends yet the weight of the world on her shoulders as a slayer. It is meant to be an ironic contrast that the scooby gang is not particularly sympathetic to her situation and turns a blind eye to her filthy and dangerous home, while the Mayor puts her in a beautiful apartment and buys her clothes--or more to the point--gives her love and attention. Faith's underlying characteristics and past experiences put her in a position in which she could be easily convinced to join either side, (she was LOST and had no convictions of her own--truly sad). As such, all it took was love and attention from the Mayor to earn her loyalty.

I'm not sure all of this was executed particularly well; for one thing, it's all done in the span of just a few episodes and I never thought it was very convincing that Faith would change her allegiance so quickly. But I believe this to be the general gist of it, and the sympathy toward her home life and lack thereof were there as plot devices to highlight the psychology behind her descent.

 

[ILLYRIAN]

#23 First chapter.
Buffy and Faith saw what they did as different, if anything Faith took it way more seriously than Buffy, the scoobies or Giles did.
Faith was a Vampire Slayer, I wonder how it took her mind when she found out that Buffy dated a vampire, and her watcher seemed to accept a vampire slayer dating a vampire.
What happened to Faith when she went to the mayor, how long was it until she was sent after the vampire Angel?

Were the watchers and the mayor that different? They both wanted Faith to go after this or that.

 

[Lyri]

f it had been Buffy living alone in a rent-by-the-hour fleabag hotel, Giles simply wouldn't have taken no for an answer or deemed it none of his business. The series is filled with examples of him doing what he thought was best for Buffy, even when she didn't want, or specifically told him not to interfere, even as late as the 7th Season, when she was obviously an adult and capable of making her own decisions, and on into Season 8.

Yes, I agree that Giles treated Buffy differently, but that mostly came about because Buffy acted differently. She wasn't a typical Slayer and Giles himself says that he knew the typical way to treat a Slayer wouldn't have worked for her.

I cannot honestly say that Giles wouldn't have treated Buffy exactly as he treated Faith if Buffy was living in her own 'flea-bag motel' when she arrived in Sunnydale at the beginning of S1. He treated Buffy different because she acted different, but we that develop into actual feelings as S1 progresses, to the point where he wants to save her from the Master. He never had the time or the opportunity to develop that kind of relationship with Faith - either by her own design, or pure bad luck, she was always on the edges of his awareness.

Ironically, as we saw in Season 8, once he DID actually spend some time together, they became a quite efficient team, and quite close. Too bad he hadn't bothered to do that back in Season 3, or Mayor Wilkins might have had to face two Slayers in opposition to the Ascension rather than one.

This is exactly my point. He DID take care of Faith and ended up leaving his entire estate to her - but only after he'd spent time with her and gotten to know her on a similar level to Buffy, which was only after she stopped behaving like a 'real' Slayer and followed her own path. Which, yes, took her quite a way off the reservation, but it also helped her identify herself as Faith LeHane rather than Faith the Vampire Slayer.

I'm not saying that Giles shouldn't have at least offered to pay some of Faith's rent on a better motel or even a small apartment, but I am saying that I can understand why he didn't feel he needed to.