FAKE Jackal on sale in the UK!

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buffyprops

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Here's a heads up for anyone in the UK that might be eye-balling this auction!
Not only do the UK Laws forbid the sale of knives there, this one is a FAKE!
And the seller even has the nerve to list it as screen used!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/buffy-Prop-se...lm_TV_Film_Memorabilia_LE&hash=item3cb17c936b

The seller doesn't give the dimensions of the knife in the description area (First Clue)
The signature on the blade is on the WRONG side and is too short (SECOND Clue)
A border edge appears at the finger guard level that doesn't exist on the real thing (THIRD Clue)
The coloring on the handle is GOLD which is all wrong, it should be two shades of brown (FOURTH Clue)
FakeJackal.jpg


I feel sorry for the fellow thats bid on it, I wished he could be informed as well.
 
Not arguing with you at all, and you're 99.99999% certainly right. Just, for those who might not know, the Jackal is a limited edition commemorative knife made under license by United Cutlery in limited edition. Quite often prop departments make copies of the "real" item (the dragon head sword from the series "Highlander" is a prime example. They went through literally hundreds of prop katanas during the run of the show, none of which were the original sword imported into the U S by Marto and copied by just about everybody else) for any of dozens of reasons, ranging from safety to ease of procurement. I have seen several Bowie knives, obviously not the authentic "Rambo 3" knife, yet with documented proof that they actually were used in the movie, the most unusual of which had a half blade attached to a chest plate used in a knife throwing scene. Those fakes, because their actual direct connection with the movie, are far more valuable to a collector than what you would buy from United Cutlery or even Hibbin's Custom Shop.

My point being, prop weapons aren't necessarily the actual models as you would buy from a cutlery shop or fellow collector, and some of them only resemble the original from a distance, being pretty hastily knocked out in quantity by prop departments, and rarely have authentic manufacturers' markings on them. Just about the only proof in that case is documentation, and even that isn't that hard to fake. Collecting authentic (antique) knives is particularly tricky, because they can be so easily faked. Collecting prop knives and swords can be a total crap shoot. What looks like something someone fished out of a dumpster may be worth a fortune if its authenticity can be documented. while something that looks like a true work of art may actually be no more valuable that a butcher knife from Wal-Mart.

Any potential collectors out there, just be keep that in mind.

And, by the way, I can make you a great price on the actual knife used by Jim Bowie at the actual Battle Of The Alamo if you're interested. My dad had a Mexican friend whose great-great-great grandfather was with Santa Anna, and he picked it up after the battle. He swapped it to my dad for a 1948 Ford pickup truck...

(Upon checking the actual site, I notice that the seller claims to have a COA, or Certificate Of Authenticity, so there still remains a chance, however slight, that he may be selling a legitimate prop. Before I would bid on something like that, however, I would want to actually see his documentation and have it verified by experts.)
 
All good points.
If anyone wants to see some REAL screen-used Jackals from Buffy do a search at this web-site: www.yourprops.com
There were some that were plastic, had the blades broken, some that were cast in rubber (stunt versions) etc...But ALL were cast from a Gil Hibben Jackal Knife and ALL were at least 14" long.
Take a look at this pic from my web-site:
Top is a real Jackal, bottom is a fake (and undoubtedly the same one being sold in that UK Auction)
JackalWolfCompare.jpg


Regardless, if the Knife in that UK auction WERE genuine, the seller would have it listed as a Jackal and the price would be well over $500...probably more in the neighborhood of $2000.
I've reported it to E-Bay and they have already started looking into it.
 
buffyprops said:
All good points.
If anyone wants to see some REAL screen-used Jackals from Buffy do a search at this web-site: www.yourprops.com
There were some that were plastic, had the blades broken, some that were cast in rubber (stunt versions) etc...But ALL were cast from a Gil Hibben Jackal Knife and ALL were at least 14" long.
Take a look at this pic from my web-site:
Top is a real Jackal, bottom is a fake (and undoubtedly the same one being sold in that UK Auction)
JackalWolfCompare.jpg


Regardless, if the Knife in that UK auction WERE genuine, the seller would have it listed as a Jackal and the price would be well over $500...probably more in the neighborhood of $2000.
I've reported it to E-Bay and they have already started looking into it.
Click to expand...

I had forgotten about the "Wolf" knockoff. There's another picture of it here

http://x-stream.fortunecity.com/princes/92/blades/index.htm

though you have to scroll down the page to find it right below the fake "Raptor." Apparently this guy collects quite a few fakes. At least he's truthful about it. And, collecting fakes might be preferable for people on a limited budget who just want something to remind them of the show. (I made my own John Wayne lever action rifle quite a few years ago. Not a collector's item, and certainly not a Winchester M92, but the tin cans that I shot with it never knew the difference, and I enjoyed it a lot more than if it was just hanging on my wall.) Perfectly harmless, just as long as both buyer and seller are aware of what they have.

And here's Hibbin's official site showing the Jackal as it was modified for the Star Trek movie, "Nemesis."

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...fe&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=753&bih=404&tbs=isch:1
 
Yup...that fellow is honest about his knife being a fake...though I don't see how he can claim its a "good" reproduction when it's a few inches shorter than the real deal.
I have no trouble with folks buying a 'knock-off" for less money because that's all you can afford, and let's face it...the Jackal has become almost impossible to find!

I have a BIG problem though with someone selling a "Knock-off" as the real deal AND claiming it was screen used!?
I'm a little surprised that this auction even made it this far in the UK...even if it sells it will certainly be seized by the UK Customs people.
Well, as I said, it's been reported now so E-Bay will deal with it as they see fit.
 
I'm not familiar with the laws concerning such things on that side of the Atlantic, and I must have missed that the first time that you mentioned it. Is it illegal to sell knives in general, or just particular types? Surely there must be some sort of license or collector's fee that would allow it. I know that your gun laws are very stringent (something that I'm sure neither of us want to get into here), but why regulate something like this, that could be of no value whatsoever to anyone but a collector? Face it, it's an absolutely TERRIBLE design for any kind of weapon or tool, with a blade so fragile that it would break the first time it was ever used most likely. As anything beyond collectors' value goes, it's utterly useless.
 
Here are the UK E-Bay Rules concerning Knives:
Knives
Knives are not permitted for sale on eBay.co.uk and eBay.ie with limited exceptions outlined below.

Allowed
Dining cutlery sets that include knives used for eating
Letter openers
Razor blades and surgical blades
Tools such as chisels, axes, saws and hoof trimming tools

Not allowed
Items that are not allowed included, but are not limited to:

Disguised knives such as belt buckle knives, lipstick case knives,
air gauge knives and writing pen knives.
Swords
Martial arts blunt training knives
Multi-tool knives and craft knives
Pocket knives, folding knives and clasp knives
Push daggers
Sharp kitchen knives (as in pair blocks), cake knives, carving
knives, pairing knives, oyster knives and electric knives.
Stealth, throwing, ballistic, grivory and rubber knives, Swiss
Army knives, Stanley knives and Leather-mans
Switchblade, spring-blade knives, snap-blade knives, gravity
knives, stiletto knives and butterfly knives

I think that about covers it!
 
I notice that he still claims to have the proper documentation. He's keeping consistant with that, anyhow.

As for the list of banned items, multi-tools, pocket knives, and Swiss Army Knives among others seems a bit excessive, but I come from a culture where a man isn't dressed without a good pocket knife, and people who like to "tinker" and play "Mr Fix-it couldn't stand to be without their Leatherman or Gerber multitool. Different cultures, different priorities, I guess.
 
Here's the skinny on that "screen-used" knife the guy is selling in the UK, it's this one which is the other Chinese knock-off and is 30cm in length...a little more than 3 inches too short, which means there's no way it was screen used as ALL the Buffy screen used Faith's Knives were either Genuine Jackals or casts off of Genuine Jackals, this is neither:
ChineseJackalknife.jpg

ChineseJackalknife2.jpg


If it were genuine, the only marking on the left side of the blade should be "Gil Hibben Jackal" and Gil's signature.
 
buffyprops said:
If it were genuine, the only marking on the left side of the blade should be "Gil Hibben Jackal" and Gil's signature.
Click to expand...

Well, at least the Chinese were being honest and aboveboard. They're openly displaying the the proper place of origin and it's unique name, since "Jackal" is the only thing about Mr Hibben's original design that is subject to copyright or patent.

Looking back over this thread, I can't help but wonder, though, if anyone has actually thought that the seller, himself, might be totally ignorant of his mistake. If he's not familiar with the differences that you have pointed out, which are obvious only when the two pieces are compared, and if his "Certificate Of Authenticity" is merely a picture of Faith holding the authentic Jackal, he may honestly believe that he is selling the genuine article. Stranger things have happened.

(incidentally, speaking of knockoffs, there's an inexpensive copy of the Bowie knife, made by a company called Rough Rider, called the "Teddy Roosevelt Bowie," almost identical to the one that Jayne carried and used in several scenes in the series "Firefly," primarily the scene in which he was going to cut the bounty hunter's ear off in the series pilot, available at several sites

THIS IS FOR VISUAL REFERENCE ONLY, SINCE THE SALE HAS ALREADY BEEN COMPLETED

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=9537586



They don't claim to have any "Firefly" connection, but for a collector in the U S, and on a limited budget, wanting something "like" what was used on the show, it might be desirable.)
 
The Chinese are undoubtedly making this knife on commission for someone in the States...stamping the blade "Made in China" has nothing to do with being honest, they probably don't know and don't care that they are involved in Copy-right infringement of someone else's design.
The fact that the UK Guy now has the Knife re-listed, with out a photo and with the description 'Very-Very Rare Screen used Item"
on the one hand implies he's knowledgeable about screen-used items from Buffy and on the other hand thinks that you and I AREN'T...or at least that's what he's hoping.
I really don't think this fellow can be given the benefit of the doubt and ignorance is NO excuse...it's rather like saying, "I forgot that robbing a bank is against the law."
I know I'm sounding a bit like a mother hen here but people on E-Bay who try to make a buck by scamming Buffy Fan's REALLY bother me.
I've been ripped off on E-Bay and elsewhere before and had my feelings about a certain Sci-Fi movie changed over one bad deal...I hate the idea that someone else could have the same thing happen to them concerning Buffy.

I have sent a query to the UK guy asking what the item is and if I can see a picture of it and the COA that he say's he has. Anything he sends to me will be passed on to E-Bay.
 
buffyprops said:
I know I'm sounding a bit like a mother hen here but people on E-Bay who try to make a buck by scamming Buffy Fan's REALLY bother me.
I've been ripped off on E-Bay and elsewhere before and had my feelings about a certain Sci-Fi movie changed over one bad deal...I hate the idea that someone else could have the same thing happen to them concerning Buffy.
Click to expand...

Even if you were, there's nothing wrong with an occasional mother hen. The world needs more of them.

And, sadly, places like Ebay provide the perfect environments for this kind of scam, since the prospective buyer can't even examine the merchandise prior to purchase. The fact is that whenever you open an account with Ebay, you're opening yourself up for this sort of thing, and the old saying, "Let the buyer beware," has to become your Bible. For every single unscrupulous dealer running this and similar scams, there are literally dozens of honest people who will bend over backwards to reach an agreeable solution to any problem that might arise, and would never make any sort of claim concerning their merchandise that they could not prove far beyond reasonable doubt. Unfortunately, it's the one dishonest dealer who always stands out in our minds.
 
Thanks White.

Well, the second auction was just pulled but I did receive this photo from the seller along with the same picture of that Chinese Knife:
tn.jpg

To the best of my knowledge WB didn't even issue any COA's for Buffy but it has Mark Taliani's name on it so I shot him off an e-mail and hopefully he will clarify.
The woman who was selling this told me she purchased it three years ago with the understanding it was genuine. I told her she should send it to the prop store of London for verification and IF it turned out to be genuine.
 
...she could have made five times as much as she was originally asking for it which was around $40 dollars.
I mean, really? You have a genuine,screen-used Faith Knife and your going to sell it for $40 dollars?!
I don't think so...
 
Good on you for sticking with this. I usually just send of a rapport when I see something funny (for example a fan's graphic work that keeps getting used to be printed on cups and stuff, which I think she would disapprove of).
 
Thanks Skytte!
Yeah, the reason I looked at it in the first place was for a friend in Scotland who was interested and wanted to know if it was the real deal, so she contacted me.
I just identified some other pieces for another friend from the Fifth Season episode:No Place Like Home
from the scene where Buffy does the meditation to "see spells".
This other friend has a number of items with genuine COA's that they are from Buffy but haven't been matched to specific scenes in specific episodes. It's a challenge but it's also fun because I get to go back through Buffy episodes looking at stuff I probably missed the first five times I watched it!🙂
 
Unfortunately their both GOLD edition knives which means lower production run and higher price.
In order to make them accurate to screen-used you would have to paint the guards Silver.
Good find but too rich even for my blood!
 
buffyprops said:
Unfortunately their both GOLD edition knives which means lower production run and higher price.
In order to make them accurate to screen-used you would have to paint the guards Silver.
Good find but too rich even for my blood!
Click to expand...

Yeah, they're the gold edition, but I was hoping that someone would buy both of them and give me one as a finder's fee. Christmas coming up and all...
 
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