Felt really sorry for Spike in Seeing Red...

[Bethanie]

Hi, I'm new 😀 just thought I'd start a thread to discuss some of my opinions about season 6 🙂

Yeah, I felt really sorry for Spike when Dawn visited him in his crypt and told him that he'd hurt Buffy by sleeping with Anya, it seems, to me, that he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't with Buffy; she tells him it's over and he should move on, yet when he does (albeit with the *wrong* person) he's told that Buffy feels hurt by his actions. It's enough to confuse anyone. 🙁


Yeah, so that's basically it. I'm a big Spike fan and a Spuffy shipper, and sometimes I feel that some of the other characters can be a little harsh on him. 🙁

 

[Ethan Reigns]

Bethanie, welcome to the Buffyverse!

This is a great place to talk about what they did wrong and what they did right, both the characters and the writers. I hope you become a regular poster here. There are a number of diverse opinions here with some interesting justifications. I am a great Spike fan and he seems to be the only one in both Angel and Buffy who has any insight about what is going on around him.

 

[Moscow Watcher]

Bethanie, welcome to the forum and to the fandom. I'm more than 10 years in this fandom and I remember a lot of heated debates on that issue back in 2002. Hope you'll enjoy your stay here.

 

[tec]

Wohoo Seeing Red is my fav ep with the Dark Willow trilogy being my favorite movie because once I start Villans I dont stop!

I think that Dawn was pulling for Spike to love Buffy while Xander was completly agenst it hence the dang if you do danged if you dont tug of war with the scoobies

 

[Bethanie]

Yeaa, I just always feel sorry for him. Poor guy couldn't do anything without people judging him 🙁 (you've probably realised, I'm a huge Spike fan, he's such a great character, and is rather easy-on-the-eye also. :love22:

 

[itssmiletime]

Hey there! Welcome to the forums!

To answer your question: I do kinda sympathise with Spike, even though I don't agree with his decisions beforehand (In "Dead Things'' he seemed to want to isolate Buffy from her friends, in that scene at the Bronze). However, it made sense with him and Anya, they had connected. Xander, particularly, is harsh on Spike. C'mon, when Spike was giving flowers for Joyce that were unmarked, I felt sorry for him.

 

[TotallySpiked]

There are a lot of situations where I feel sorry for Spike and those listed above are the biggest ones. The flowers for Joyce makes me feel so sorry for him because he had genuine affection for her and was just trying to show how sorry he felt and to show respect for her and then Xander tarnishes that by assuming it was to get Buffy's good books. One of the times I feel bad for him the most is during 'As You Were' - the whole speech at the end, gah. Gets me every time.
It's always great to have more Spike and Spuffy fans [MENTION=12249]Bethanie[/MENTION], yay!😎

 

[white avenger]

The flowers for Joyce makes me feel so sorry for him because he had genuine affection for her and was just trying to show how sorry he felt and to show respect for her and then Xander tarnishes that by assuming it was to get Buffy's good books.

This has always been one of Xander's lowest moments in the series for me. Certainly, he knew about Spike's feelings for Buffy, and just as certainly, he knew about Spike's feelings for Joyce, and hers for him, and Spike's relationship with Dawn. I can't imagine anyone with a better right to be there than Spike.

 

[TotallySpiked]

This has always been one of Xander's lowest moments in the series for me. Certainly, he knew about Spike's feelings for Buffy, and just as certainly, he knew about Spike's feelings for Joyce, and hers for him, and Spike's relationship with Dawn. I can't imagine anyone with a better right to be there than Spike.

I couldn't agree more. I think it was this moment that made me see Xander in a whole new light. I think a lot of Xander's motives towards Spike come a lot from jealousy and bitterness as opposed to a genuine interest in Buffy's (or anyone's) well-being. Disappointing really because I used to hold him in pretty high regard.

 

[Robb Stark]

Spike is a great character, one I like a lot, but he does a lot of wrong, very bad things in S6, and "Seeing Red" is the worst. There are times I totally sympathize with him and times I feel like he gets a raw deal (the scene when he's dropping off flowers for Joyce is one of those times), but not in "Seeing Red". What he did was evil, and the act of someone who, like Spike, has no soul or conscience. I felt zero sympathy for Spike. Zero.

Plus, it's an incredibly poorly written and constructed scene as well. Earlier he protects Dawn and endures torture from Glory because the thought of her death would cause Buffy so much pain, but then he's fully willing to rape her without reservation, when she's screaming at him to stop? Stupid.

 

[tec]

Woah slow down your talking about a huge space of time here between S5s Intervention and S6 Seeing Red both tail ends of there respected seasons

A lots happned in the inbetween. theres no doubt in my mind if a nasty had attcked in that scene Spike would protect the Summers but the relationship with Buffy theres a lot of confussion and Spike beign soulless adds to that confusion. Is what he tryed to do right? Never and he knows it and takes drastic steps to make sure it never happends again.

 

[Icarium]

Yeaa, I just always feel sorry for him. Poor guy couldn't do anything without people judging him.

Yes, it's not like he literally got away with thousands of brutal murders. Oh, wait...

 

[crazysoulless]

I didn't hold it against Xander when Spike stopped by with the flowers. Let's not forget that this was not long after Spike let Buffy get zapped unconscious and then chained her up and threatened to violently murder her if she didn't admit to having feelings for him. He could've raped her and she wouldn't have been able to stop him. And she makes a reference to that with her line, "The only chance you had with me was when I was unconscious."

In I was made to love you, all of Buffy's friends and Dawn were angry at Spike, which technically, is the episode Joyce died. It makes sense that a few days later her friends would still be wary of Spike's intentions and upset with him. Especially when Buffy is dealing with the loss of her mother they'll want to make sure she doesn't have to deal with anything else.

I don't think it was a damned if he does damned if he doesn't situation in Entropy/Seeing Red. Yes, she told him to move on. But it's not too much to expect that he not have sex with one of her only friends in a place she goes to every week. She had known Anya for years, defended her to Willow, cooked Thanksgiving & Christmas dinner for her, had Anya's engagement party at her house and was a bridesmaid at her wedding. Buffy only had 3 female friends (Willow, Tara, Anya) and she is forced to watch him have a one night stand with one of them.

 

[tec]

That was just as much Anya doing as it was Spikes she got drunk and wanted Solice Spike was just convenance.

 

[crazysoulless]

Anya didn't know that Spike had been with Buffy until Spike says to Xander, "It was good enough for Buffy."

It was more on Anya in that she was trying to get him drunk. He came there because he didn't want to feel hurt anymore. Anya's motives were revenge. She wanted to hurt Xander by getting someone to wish harm on him, and ended up getting emotional revenge on him without even trying to do so.

I had no sympathy for Anya in Entropy. Yes, Xander hurt her when he didn't marry her. But for her to become a demon again to try to wish agonizing mutilations on him? To try to have it so he literally was never born? That is the thought process of a monster. Xander should've considered himself lucky he got out. And she tried to get the people that loved him to do her dirty work once she realized she wasn't allowed to make the wish herself. Imagine if they did say something flippantly and something really evil happened to Xander? How that would make them feel knowing their words caused it?

 

[JReed1985]

Do I hate Spike now?

Because Spike attempted to rape Buffy there will be a part of me that will never forgive him.

 

[white avenger]

There had never been anything gentle or romantic in Spike's sexual relationship with Buffy. It was always triggered, as far as we ever saw, by violence. "Slam, bam, thank you, ma'am," with Buffy apparently doing most of the slamming. There was never any indication that Spike had ever had any sort of normal, romantic relationship with any woman, either as human or vampire, so he most likely thought that what they had been doing up to that point had been more or less normal and acceptable, and the last time that Buffy had said "No," was on the balcony at the Bronze, where her protest was strictly verbal, with her actions in contradiction, or at least passive. That undoubtedly gave Spike the idea that that was the acceptable, if not normal behavior, and he was acting on that misinformation.

That is in no way an excuse for his actions, nor is it an accusation that what happened was Buffy's fault. It is, however, a fair explanation of why Spike believed that what he was doing was what Buffy really wanted, and I fully believe that the realization that he was wrong did as much or more to stop him as any physical resistance that Buffy offered. It's highly doubtful that he had ever seen her cry during one of their sessions up until that time.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

I definitely dont fell sorry for him. This wasn't him trying to move on with his life trying to have a new relationship and accidentally hurt Buffy in the process.

He screwed one of her friends, knowing it would hurt her. He was being viciously mean on purpose to get back at Buffy. He proves that further by telling the others Buffy slept with him, there was no reason behind that beyond malicious intent, knowing her friends wouldn't approve of it.

I also don't buy the Xander is a bad guy over the flowers thing. There is no way Xander should have trusted Spike, he'd been full on stalking Buffy, not fancying her from a far, full on stalking (stealing her things, building a shrine, making his sex-buddy dress up as her).
Also it always gets made out Spike and Joyce had a great relationship, lets not forgot Joyce is horrified at the idea of Spike being interested in Buffy when it's revealed in season 5.

 

[chasesummers]

I liked Spike when he was his demon self, back to season 2 onwards.
When Spike became Buffycrazed because of the chip and soul, he simply became a disgusting old man to me, with the rape and mind playing with Buffy.

I feel sorry for Spike in general, he is one of those characters which the writers toyed around for too long.

 

[YummySushiPJs]

There's no excusing what Spike did. It was wrong. No denying it.

But Buffy spent the whole of Series 6 up to that point, saying no to spike and then giving in and having sex with him. "No, no, no, ok".... "No, no no...... oh ok".

To him she was just saying no like she always does before she gives in to her urges. He of course SHOULD have realised by the point she was screaming and crawling along the floor to get away from him that she REALLY meant no this time, but he is, afterall, a monster. And we are led to believe that not having a soul is what stopped him realising this.

I'm definately not saying it was Buffy's fault, nor am I saying Spike was innocent, but his actions up to a point are.... not understandable.... but explainable.