First Look at BtVS Season 10

[Kean]

I definitely think it would help, or like you said, wouldn't hurt. At worst, the fans of Spike like me would be happy with his story, and the people that don't like him would not have a reason to hate him even more. Its not even that I want the character to do a 180, it's okay to show that he's in love and Buffy, but dam he can still do his own thing. They don't have to remind us every two seconds that Angel loves Buffy, so I don't know why they are doing that with Spike. Especially that Spike showed a lot of potential in early seasons, he has an interesting past, why not explore that. They could give him a story with Dru, make something interesting there (since a lot of fans also like that pairing). Just anything but the roomate story, that just sounds awful.

I think if the writers had continued to point out in every episode that Buffy and Angel still love each other it would have destroyed the ship and the characters. Neither of them could have grown or had other experiences if they had done that, which is exactly what is happening with Spike. The fact that Buffy and Angel led new lives made what they had more interesting. It gave them more dimensions and their experiences more texture. They continued to be individuals with agency and that is why Angel could sustain 5 seasons of his own story, and continues to sustain, if not surpass, the original story (BTVS.)

I don't know if unshackling his narrative would cause people to stop hating Spike, but it might just present them with an opportunity to like him.

 

[Blaze]

I think if the writers had continued to point out in every episode that Buffy and Angel still love each other it would have destroyed the ship and the characters. Neither of them could have grown or had other experiences if they had done that, which is exactly what is happening with Spike. The fact that Buffy and Angel led new lives made what they had more interesting. It gave them more dimensions and their experiences more texture. They continued to be individuals with agency and that is why Angel could sustain 5 seasons of his own story, and continues to sustain, if not surpass, the original story (BTVS.)

I don't know if unshackling his narrative would cause people to stop hating Spike, but it might just present them with an opportunity to like him.

Can't rep you, but I couldn't agree more. In fact, I didn't even like Angel that much on BtVS but I love him on his own show. This doesn't mean that I don't like him when he's with Buffy, but they gave his character the opportunity to grow, it was needed. No one wants to watch a character do the same thing for 5 years, no matter how much you like said character. The worst with Spike is that I feel like they were going somewhere with him in AtS, his life didn't revolve around Buffy, and they ignore that in the comics. The ending they got in Chosen was the perfect ending to any romantic involvement the two add, yes they are in each others heart, now let's move on and have them be bad ass together as fighting partners. One can wish...

 

[Lyri]

New covers - WARNING VERY SPOILER-Y!!

BTVS

#5

By Steve Morris

#6

By Steve Morris

By Chris Samnee with Jordie Bellaire

#7

by Rebekah Issacs with Dan Jackson

A&F

#4

by Scott Fischer

by Chris Samnee

SOURCE

 

[nmcil12]

I agree with thetopher, Spike and Xander just don't feel fresh to me, and that's coming from someone who loved their interactions on the show. But the whole roomate thing, I think we're past that, there's no reason for them to live together. I wish they'd give Spike a good story, it's like they're doing it on purpose for people to dislike him.

I wish that they would let Spike actually grow and do something friggin simple like letting Spike work with the SFPD and earn a living. Personally, I'm not much interested in Spike and Xander - not unless this is used to move both characters as a vehicle to go back and have a serious discussion about the events of the Twilight Time. Xander we know had a huge amount of anger that haunted him from the events of Giles' death as well as Buffy involved with that event. It's was not all about Xander's insecurities as having to be only A Watcher. As for Spike, he still needs make another move away from his Buffy Love if that is the next phase for the character. And getting rid of Buffy photo might just be the foreshadow.

One thing that I really dislike about this is how Spike and Xander are reversed - Spike has never been shown as slovenly in his personal appearance when Xander was often shown as not to particularly care about his personal appearance and style. Xander in the last season is the first time that we see him as a person who has concerns for his personal appearance once he joins the adult working phase.

I don't come from a comic book reading background - so I just don't understand this idea of a cover not having little or nothing related to the issue.

Those are some great covers - thanks for posting them in this large sizes.

 

[Lyri]

Yet another alternate cover for #1, this time by Phil Noto.

SOURCE

 

[brinkster130]

Pretty colors on that cover. Is the price really going up to $5.00 an issue?

 

[nmcil12]

Completely agree. And this especially suck as a Spike fan, because for the most part only the very vocal fans are heard. If I say I like Spuffy I'm put in this category of people that don't ever want to see Spike on his own, which couldn't be farther from what I actually want. Unfortunately, you are right, things will not change because the writer's think it will angry the fans too much of they move Spike to a different storyline. Maybe it's because they've had poor success with his own solo stories, but even then his storylines there were never good, never as well thought out as for example A&F or AtF, or Willow Wonderland. I miss when Joss would just go ahead and do the story he wanted to tell, without doing any, or very few fan service (which actually Spike has always sort of been an exception to that rule, even though I liked his storyline on the show's run). Combine poor sales with Joss being a very small part of the comics, I don't think we'll ever have a good Spike story again. I hope to be proven wrong.

I'm not so sure about this perception that Spuffy and some of the Spike fans want him to continue with the potential for an eventual Buffy loves Spike story. What I think that fans and Spuffy fans is for the franchise to grow a pair and make this the season that the relationship is either given the final axe or make a definitive move on what Buffy feels. No More friggin mixed messages. No one wants a Spike who is going to continue as the man forever longing for a love with a woman who cannot or will not return that love.

The devoted Spuffy fans, BTW, are just as invested emotionally as those who love the Buffy-Angel relationship. I don't understand why some of the comments here have devolve into such negative snarks about the fans who are Spuffy fans.

I have been a Buffyverse fan since the series first aired and let me tell you that I have spent hundreds of dollars supporting this franchise and I feel that as a years long fan, as a Spuffy fan and as a Spike fan, I am entitled to the same level of courtesy that you would expect for yourself.

Everyone has their own interpretation of all the characters and the series - and it all comes down to nothing more than personal opinions and individual filters for each characters and all the stories. It would be nice is we would all remember that it's all personal opinions and that yours does not have anymore validity than mine.

 

[Blaze]

I'm not so sure about this perception that Spuffy and some of the Spike fans want him to continue with the potential for an eventual Buffy loves Spike story. What I think that fans and Spuffy fans is for the franchise to grow a pair and make this the season that the relationship is either given the final axe or make a definitive move on what Buffy feels. No More friggin mixed messages. No one wants a Spike who is going to continue as the man forever longing for a love with a woman who cannot or will not return that love.

The devoted Spuffy fans, BTW, are just as invested emotionally as those who love the Buffy-Angel relationship. I don't understand why some of the comments here have devolve into such negative snarks about the fans who are Spuffy fans.

I'm not sure if you've seen my other post around here, but I am a Spuffy fan and a Spike fan. I know all about the stuff concerning Bangel and Spuffies and how things can get ugly. I get just as frustrated with people bashing Spike as the next person. But what you said in your post of basically what I said.

Truth is, there are a minority of Spuffies that want these two to be together and only that, and those are the most vocal guys. You and me and all the others that just want a good story and answers and people to move on are the ones that are often ignored.

I have been a Buffyverse fan since the series first aired and let me tell you that I have spent hundreds of dollars supporting this franchise and I feel that as a years long fan, as a Spuffy fan and as a Spike fan, I am entitled to the same level of courtesy that you would expect for yourself.

Everyone has their own interpretation of all the characters and the series - and it all comes down to nothing more than personal opinions and individual filters for each characters and all the stories. It would be nice is we would all remember that it's all personal opinions and that yours does not have anymore validity than mine.

I don't see how I've attacked anyone here. I didn't say that other's opinion were invalid, I just stated my opinion.

 

[thetopher]

I say it. I've seen Spike as a character ruined in the comics because of Spuffy. The writers do not know what to do with him. They are afraid to have him develop away from Buffy because of a (minority) vocally loud Spuffy fan-base that will whine otherwise. Which is unfortunate because he has some real potential.

Bangels have seen Angel move on for years, grow and develop as a character, fight the good fight...and what do they get for their troubles? Twilight.
A bloody good character assassination is what.
Spuffy's on the other hand, get Spike showing up with exposition to save the day. I don't see Spike fans being treated unfairly in the comics. I see Angel fans getting the shaft but still rallying around their favourite character, they rarely scream ouraged fandom like Spike fans do.
(I read an astonishing thread- on another board I believe- about Spike's appearance in A&F- about how Spike sleeping with Harmony was so out of character and a blatent betrayal of his love for Buffy...get a grip, people. 🙄)

 

[EVIL UU]

[MENTION=9775]nmcil12[/MENTION]

I don't understand why some of the comments here have devolve into such negative snarks about the fans who are Spuffy fans.

Simple. Hardcore Spike/Buffy fans are disliked for a reason. They're not just blind supporters of an abusive relationship and often straight up misogynistic rape apologists, they are also the single most obnoxious, annoying, script-ignoring bunch in this fandom. They are ridiculed because they earned it. Every once in a while a crazy Spike/Buffy fan shows up on this board, is completely destroyed in some or other thread because they don't know the script, then throws a fit and whines about personal opinions and feelings.

Don't be that person.

It would be nice is we would all remember that it's all personal opinions and that yours does not have anymore validity than mine.

Only when you can back it up better than me.

 

[Lyri]

New cover for #4 plus Blurb

By Rebecca Isaacs



Getting help from Dracula seemed like a good idea, until he stole the Vampyr book"”and Xander! Now Buffy, Spike, Dawn, Willow, and Giles must save Xander and retrieve the book before it's too late. Dracula has already begun to study how the lack of magical rules can work in his favor . . .

SOURCE

Also, for those wondering, it seems that this issue is priced at $3.50. The Noto cover is limited to 1000 copies, so perhaps that's why it's $5.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

[MENTION=9775]nmcil12[/MENTION]


Simple. Hardcore Spike/Buffy fans are disliked for a reason. They're not just blind supporters of an abusive relationship and often straight up misogynistic rape apologists, they are also the single most obnoxious, annoying, script-ignoring bunch in this fandom. They are ridiculed because they earned it. Every once in a while a crazy Spike/Buffy fan shows up on this board, is completely destroyed in some or other thread because they don't know the script, then throws a fit and whines about personal opinions and feelings.

Don't be that person.

This is completely true.

But I also dont think it's a minority of Spuffy fans, I think thats inverted I think the majority are he canon-deniers and see to want Buffy and Spike together at all costs and the minority are of the more sane variety, just going off what I've experienced first hand.

 

[white avenger]

[MENTION=9775]nmcil12[/MENTION]


Simple. Hardcore Spike/Buffy fans are disliked for a reason. They're not just blind supporters of an abusive relationship and often straight up misogynistic rape apologists, they are also the single most obnoxious, annoying, script-ignoring bunch in this fandom. They are ridiculed because they earned it. Every once in a while a crazy Spike/Buffy fan shows up on this board, is completely destroyed in some or other thread because they don't know the script, then throws a fit and whines about personal opinions and feelings.

Don't be that person.

But we're not mud slingers. And we never personally attack Bangels or any other shipper, or non-shipper, even if they badly deserve it. We support our ship with enthusiasm and loyalty, certainly, but, aside from a few well meaning jokes, allow others to do the same. And I haven't seen anyone throw a fit here in quite awhile.

 

[thetopher]

But we're not mud slingers. And we never personally attack Bangels or any other shipper, or non-shipper, even if they badly deserve it. We support our ship with enthusiasm and loyalty, certainly, but, aside from a few well meaning jokes, allow others to do the same. And I haven't seen anyone throw a fit here in quite awhile.

This should be 'we're not all mudslingers', there are some Spuffy's that defend Spike and his relationship with Buffy with...shall we say, maximum enthusiasm?
I personally have seen some quite nasty attacks on some topics...Bangel vs. Spuffy, who loves Buffy more, the rape scene, honestly I can get quite nasty.
Of course their are anti-Spike's who can get nasty, but for the most part its the Spuffy's (some Spuffy's) that escalate things.

Anyway, looking at the plot...I'm feeling a little more hopeful, Dracula being a sidetimes ally turning against them is interesting...but whats with him kidnapping Xander? Are we seeing a new 'ship evolving? That's just weird and I think I might've missed something about their interactions.
Also the new 'magic rules' thing sounds like the writers are using the oppertunities that were given to them way back at the start of S9, finally.
Also glad to here that the Scoobies are finally back together and working on a problem/against an antagonist. Buffy vs. Dracula round 2?

On a side-note, liking some of the cover art from Isaacs a lot.

 

[VisionGirl]

Phil Noto and Steve Morris kick ass! Those covers are gorgeous.

I think the writers feel like their hands are tied with Spike. He has a huge fanbase but that hasn't translated into successful solo stories away from Buffy. If comic sales and fandom discussion is a measure of what his fans want, then they don't want to see his story deter from Buffy's. The problem with this is that Buffy's story has moved on from Spike a long time ago (and in reality his story has moved on from her too) but in order to satisfy a very vocal part of the audience we keep getting these non-committal steps forward that inevitably end with him getting drunk or ending up in some other sorry state until he resolves to move on only to fall back again.

I know I sound like a broken records, but the Dark Horse writers need only look as far as the IDW Angel series to see how to write Spike post-Chosen. I mean, it wasn't perfect, and probably didn't get the opportunity to get as far as they would've liked except that DH stole, er, took Angel back from IDW. It can be done. The AtS writers did it with Angel, and started doing it with Spike in season 5, and then the IDW writers continued it. Joss has admitted that he doesn't understand Angel, and season 8 proves that to be true. And I'm starting to think that he doesn't really understand Spike either.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

Phil Noto and Steve Morris kick ass! Those covers are gorgeous.



I know I sound like a broken records, but the Dark Horse writers need only look as far as the IDW Angel series to see how to write Spike post-Chosen. I mean, it wasn't perfect, and probably didn't get the opportunity to get as far as they would've liked except that DH stole, er, took Angel back from IDW. It can be done. The AtS writers did it with Angel, and started doing it with Spike in season 5, and then the IDW writers continued it. Joss has admitted that he doesn't understand Angel, and season 8 proves that to be true. And I'm starting to think that he doesn't really understand Spike either.

Well Angel in season 8, while it was a terrible plan, was actually in line with what Angel would do. He's always thought bigger picture, Twilight is just an extension of that and on a larger scale, but it's really no different to him plan in Not Fade Away

 

[thetopher]

I'll admit I'm not familiar with the IDW Spike stuff. I found some of the Angel stuff very variable in quality, some good, some awful. Although I did very much enjoy 'After The Fall'.

I seems to me that the writers seem to have some sort of plan for all the Buffyverse characters they write about in the comics. I've seen Buufy, Willow, Faith, Angel, even Xander and Andrew go through things in the comics. I might not like their journey's but at least they're going somewhere.
Spike? not so much. His mini-series was yawn-inducingly dull. (compared to Willow's mini-series which was pretty good, if a little 'out there')
They should stop writing about him or do something with him. (hey, I can be a broken record to. 🙂)

 

[janas]

I'll admit I'm not familiar with the IDW Spike stuff. I found some of the Angel stuff very variable in quality, some good, some awful. Although I did very much enjoy 'After The Fall'.

I seems to me that the writers seem to have some sort of plan for all the Buffyverse characters they write about in the comics. I've seen Buufy, Willow, Faith, Angel, even Xander and Andrew go through things in the comics. I might not like their journey's but at least they're going somewhere.
Spike? not so much. His mini-series was yawn-inducingly dull. (compared to Willow's mini-series which was pretty good, if a little 'out there')
They should stop writing about him or do something with him. (hey, I can be a broken record to. 🙂)

Well, to be honest, Hardcore Spike fans were very critical with the IDW Spike stuff and many fans argue that none of these work IDW is canon, including ATF. So, it seems that these fans, for one reason or another, are never happy.

 

[white avenger]

Well, to be honest, Hardcore Spike fans were very critical with the IDW Spike stuff and many fans argue that none of these work IDW is canon, including ATF. So, it seems that these fans, for one reason or another, are never happy.

There can be no real argument that at least some of IDW's Spike stories have to be canon, since that's where he got his space ship with its bug crew.

 

[Kaleidoscope]

There can be no real argument that at least some of IDW's Spike stories have to be canon, since that's where he got his space ship with its bug crew.

True. I think Brian Lynch in particular, was moving Spike in a good direction, with his own team and a mission and I was sorry when the Angel franchise moved back to Dark Horse. I also like Angel and feel that Twilight was a bad storyline for him. Yes, he is a big picture thinker, but I didn't buy that he would be that credulous. He's a bright character.

I like all the new covers and I'm looking forward to a bit of Xander and Spike interraction. I agree that the comedy needs to be handled deftly, so neither character is belittled, but on the whole, I'm looking forward to this storyline. There's going to be alot of characters in the Buffy book - it remains to be seen how easy it is going to be for Christos to handle them all. I've got some grave doubts about Lil' Giles !