First Look at BtVS Season 10

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My mistake, I though some were the implying that none of the comics were canon. 😱

To be clear, I've never liked the idea of this Spike book and personally hope it isn't canon, because it'll cause a lot of confusion otherwise. (and upset a lot of Spuffy's...so, silver lining. 😛)

It just feels like a nonsense story that people can go about and ignore...if JM's name wasn't attatched to it that's what 99% of people would do.
Joss should make it clear one way or the other wheter it's even slightly canon, to JM or to the comic writers.
 
Even if James did say it was canon, it doesn't matter honestly. He has no say. Whedon hasn't really had a problem saying whats canon or not and he hasn't commented on the Spike book, I don't think.

Not to start one of our unending debates, because I pretty much agree with you and just about everyone here, but if Joss hasn't actually said that this story isn't canon, that's not the same thing as saying that it isn't. Maybe he just hasn't commented on the subject yet because no one has specifically asked him, one way or the other. From all that we know about the story in question at this time, yes, it does appear to what we know happened in Season 7, but there are still plot devices that could be used (which I think that we would both consider cheating, but Joss might not) that would make this story, whatever it turns out to be, actually canon. For all the doubt that I'm pretty sure that we all feel about this, we still can't actually say one way or the other at this time whether or not Spike's story can be fitted into the canon story line as we know it now.

As I said, I'm with the majority here, I don't see at this time how James can pull it off, but the possibility still exists, no matter how remote that might be, that he might actually have figured out a way to make it work. But if he doesn't, if the whole thing winds up being a dream sequence, something that takes place in a parallel dimension, there's somehow time travel involved, or if Joss simply makes a comment actually disclaiming the whole thing, it will still serve one great purpose.

It will give all of its detractors the chance to dance around the flag pole and chortle, "See there, I told you so."
 
When it has come to these post-show comics Joss being credited as Executive Producer has been the most direct (short of him actually writing the issues) signifyer of Canon. Buffy S8, S9 & S10, Angel ATF 1-17, Angel and Faith S9 & S10 all have Joss' credited as Executive Producer of the comic. This Spike book doesn't. In the same way that post #17 ATF comics didn't. DH are even descibing it as an "Original Story" in their descriotion of it. It may not be Joss saying the words "not canon" but it is close as you'll get until he's inevitably asked about it.
 
Lyri
Lyri
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Xin Rong
Xin Rong
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I think what creates confusion it's the fact that the story, although it's set in season seven, DH advertises and sells the story as part of the season ten. I understand it's a matter of marketing, after all it's their job, but they should be clearer and less turbid in canon matter.
 
but if Joss hasn't actually said that this story isn't canon, that's not the same thing as saying that it isn't.

I think it is.

Doesn't Whedon have a quote out there that only stuff he's directly involved with it cannon. He was a writer in season 8 of Buffy and Executive Producer in season 9/10, which is why their canon isn't disputed.

The problem with defining canon is there is like 3 types of canon.

Canon - actual officially part of the story
Fits Canon - doesn't disrupt the canon story but no involvement from Joss.
Not Canon - not official story

Something like that book Queen of the Slayers "fit canon" at the time it was written, in that it didn't disrupt the official story, but it was never official. Once season 8 came out, it was completely not canon.

Authors like their books/comics to be in the "fits canon" category, as it sells better, and when asked if it's canon you'll often see them say stuff like "well it doesn't go against anything in canon so people can take it as canon", which doesn't make it canon.

Nothing should be taken as canon, unless Whedon actively says it is, silence or the absence of an answer should mean it's not canon until proven otherwise.

The really big problem with this Spike comic, is James has a connection to Whedon, probably more then the other authors of non-canon stuff do.
There seems to be a lot of confusion over this being the story for the Spike movie, which it never was. Joss asked James about doing a movie, but had no ideas what to do with Spike, James told him his idea and Joss did nothing with it. It was never really an option for the movie, Joss and James just have a connection, so James was able to tell him his idea, not even pitch it, he basically just mentioned it as an idea in passing.
Then James has been mentioning that becasue he mentioned the story to Joss and he sent him the script and wasn't told no don't do that, that it's approval for the story.
Dark Horse also announced the book the same time they were giving news on Season 10, but they've said the two are separate, Spikes book isn't under the season 10 banner. The mini-series and one shots have been under the season 8/9/10 banner and part of the canon story, but Spike:Into the Light is just being published at the same time.

It is approval, but just approval to publish it, same as any other non canon work. To be canon Joss has to be actively involved and have his name on it, which isn't the case clearly from interviews Scott Allie has done:

BF: Heh! And regarding the story, was it based off Joss's idea for the TV movie? Because that was to take place after the series ended.

SA: No, this was all James's idea. It's a story that I think he's been kicking around for a long time.

SA: We sent him the script and he said we could do it, but he hasn't really contributed or chimed in specifically, so it won't bare his name as exec producer. I told him the story in a nutshell, I think he had heard it from James before, and he gave it his blessing, but that's the extent of it.

http://buffyfest.blogspot.ie/2013/11/exclusive-dark-horse-responds-to-james.html

He gave the story his blessing in the same way he has approval over all stories published, the fact his name isn't on it makes it not offical.

I just dont think that someone who thinks canon "is key, as is continuity. If you are massive nerd. Which I am. I believe there's a demarcation between the creation and ancillary creations by different people. I'm all for that stuff, just like fanfic, but I like to know what's there's an absolutely official story-so-far, especially when something changes mediums, which my stuff seems to do a lot."
http://www.whedon.info/Joss-Whedon-Angel-Season-6-Comic.html

As far as I'm concerned, and everyone else should be concerned, that quote is the end of the discussion on canon, he says it himself there is a difference between the stories he makes and the stories made by others, and only stuff by him is canon.

There are other grey areas that he's invited into canon, like The Origin comic, which he basically said was good enough for a story he wasn't going to revisit. Or characters from non-canon which he's made canon by having them in a canon book, but that just makes that character canon and the story they came from fit canon, but if he later went back and said Spike got his bug ship by building it, that official canon overrides the story that fit canon by IDW - they didn't do that to be respectful to IDWs stories, but they also wouldn't say the stories were canon, they just said they'd leave them alone. Completely different to actually making something canon.

For someone who thinks Canon is key, I can't see him inviting a story were Spike gets back to sunnydale crazy, gets over that and then heads off to have a fling with another women and go shoe shopping between not liking fighting any more and getting triggered all over the place, into canon.
 
Lyri
Lyri
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janas
janas
Thank you. I missed the interviews with SA. Now it's much clearer.
I especially enjoyed the interview. James and Nick are fun together and I'm looking forward to their contributions. Nick's sense of humour is something else.
 
I really need to get caught up with the comics 😛 I'm still at the beginning of Season 9, although I know what's happened since then.

At the risk of repeating what's (no doubt) discussed before or been beat to death...I'm still holding out hope they'll bring Tara back this season.
 
SPOILERS!!

Previews for issue #2

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Ba ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!! Spuffy wasn't a relationship, lol.

I could really do without all this, I was hoping they'd move on from this boring dead discussion after what the last issue hinted at.

Spikes still being a creepy wierdo, getting that dig in there that 'normal' folk can't hack being with her, that's just more of his wedging her away bullcrap.

I enjoy Buffy mentioning that Spuffy wasn't a relationship, it always makes me smile, but at the same time I'm sick of hearing it.

Dust him or date him, just stop talking about the same conversation over and over you are killing us that are still barely holding onto these comics!
 
L
ladydorotea
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I expect there will be all sorts of Buffy hate because of these pages but honestly, it kinda makes me love her all the more. And not just because of the Spuffy dig!

Her behaviour can read very annoying but it just made me smile because that's Buffy, you know? I can practically hear SMG delivering those lines, I can see the "how very dare you not fall in love with me" look on her face. She's a complicated, messy, character and I love that we (appear) to have her back with a bit of her old not so charming charm.
 
First reaction: Buffy and Dowling were dating? 😕
When? How? Why? emphasis on the last one.
Well, anyway, they got rid of it (seems like), good one Gage, lets have an actual new love interest if they decide to go that way, not just half-heartedly throw one in Buffy's general direction.

Secondly, Buffy's analysis of her relationship with Riley is kinda screwed up. 🙁
Any reasonable interpretation of S4/5 is that Buffy saved Riley from freakish Intiative experimentation and then he got addicted to vampire bites because Buffy's Mom was dying. And Buffy thinks its her fault they broke up? Oh, Buffy.

Her conversation with Spike though is a little more on the nose, S6 was screwed up, it was in no way good, sexy or 'hot', it was a painful car crash of a thing and should be buried.
And its official- Spuffy wasn't a relationship. Finally.
Nice to see Spike is in the 'friend zone', although there's still awkwardness (maybe.) Though I am tired of all the interactions between these two, and the 'normal people can't handle this is so much bullshit'- Andrew, Xander, Dawn- none of them have superpowers, just some knowledge to help them fight. Hopefully Spike isn't hinting at a reunion, 'cause I don't see it happening.

One nagging thing, timeline. I mean I can take pop culture references that are out of synch, but apps? When is this supposed to be set? Did they have apps back then, especially ones for micro-brews. (again, yay for dumping Dowling.)


Oh, and Rebecca's Buffy is growing on me after only two issues. 🙂
 
L
ladydorotea
[No message]
I can practically hear SMG delivering those lines, I can see the "how very dare you not fall in love with me" look on her face.

I thought the exact same thing. It's the first time in a long time where I 'heard' Buffy's voice when I was reading this. It's very nice to have that back again.

then he got addicted to vampire bites because Buffy's Mom was dying. And Buffy thinks its her fault they broke up? Oh, Buffy.

That's a bit of an over-simplification.

He didn't get addicted to vampire bites 'just' because Joyce was dying - he got addicted to vampire bites because he wanted to understand Buffy a little bit more. She'd been bitten by three vampires at this point, he wanted to know what it was like, but, like everything, it can become an addiction and Riley fell under it, and the fact that Buffy shut him out of her life made that addiction worse. He couldn't understand why she wasn't letting him be there for her. Whether you like it or not, Buffy DID shut him out, the evidence is on the screen. It was intentional on Buffy's part, but from Riley's perspective, it was.

I'm not saying it's Buffy's fault alone that Riley left, but she certainly had a hand in it.
 
Kean
Kean
Free karma! Cuz you're purty! :D
I expect there will be all sorts of Buffy hate because of these pages

No hatred here. I was too busy laughing at Buffy's reaction to someone NOT being heart broken because they couldn't be together. The only thing that would have made it better would have been if he had said that he would always think of her as a dear, dear friend.

And don't count te Spuffy ship as sunk too soon. It may be launching a whole new cruise.
 
Kean
Kean
The Costa Concordia?
I thought the exact same thing. It's the first time in a long time where I 'heard' Buffy's voice when I was reading this. It's very nice to have that back again.



That's a bit of an over-simplification.

He didn't get addicted to vampire bites 'just' because Joyce was dying - he got addicted to vampire bites because he wanted to understand Buffy a little bit more. She'd been bitten by three vampires at this point, he wanted to know what it was like, but, like everything, it can become an addiction and Riley fell under it, and the fact that Buffy shut him out of her life made that addiction worse. He couldn't understand why she wasn't letting him be there for her. Whether you like it or not, Buffy DID shut him out, the evidence is on the screen. It was intentional on Buffy's part, but from Riley's perspective, it was.

I'm not saying it's Buffy's fault alone that Riley left, but she certainly had a hand in it.

True, but the point is obviously Buffy thinks its all her fault, thats what got me.

It was an oversimplification. I'm not really a Riley-hater type, I just don't think that Buffy loved him that much. I think she could've, maybe, if he stuck around a bit longer, but the moment their relationship turns hits a tough patch he pretty much bails after giving her an ultimatum. It's one of those what-ifs of the series. 🙁



Spuffy as Titanic is a nice analogy, so many people has an overblown sense of its invulnerability and it sank on its maiden voyage. 🙂
 
Spuffy as Titanic is a nice analogy, so many people has an overblown sense of its invulnerability and it sank on its maiden voyage. 🙂

Continuing with the nautical analogy, I think it's coming a lifeboat, an anchor, a safe haven away from the threatening waves 😛
 
True, but the point is obviously Buffy thinks its all her fault, thats what got me.

That's...not what I got from that bubble.

She's saying that being a part of her world almost got Riley killed - and it did! She's completely right. Riley wanted to get bit because he wanted to know how it felt for Buffy when three other vampires bit her - two of them did it with Buffy's complete consent. He never would have done that if he hadn't been a part of Buffy's world.

That's not saying that Buffy is blaming HERSELF for what went wrong with Riley and their relationship - she's blaming the fact that she's the Slayer, something so far out of her control that it's not even funny. But it still had and always will have a massive effect on whoever is a part of her life at any given time. There's just no denying that.
 
That's...not what I got from that bubble.

She's saying that being a part of her world almost got Riley killed - and it did! She's completely right. Riley wanted to get bit because he wanted to know how it felt for Buffy when three other vampires bit her - two of them did it with Buffy's complete consent. He never would have done that if he hadn't been a part of Buffy's world.

That's not saying that Buffy is blaming HERSELF for what went wrong with Riley and their relationship - she's blaming the fact that she's the Slayer, something so far out of her control that it's not even funny. But it still had and always will have a massive effect on whoever is a part of her life at any given time. There's just no denying that.

But there were circumstances.

Buffy got bit to save Angel's life, not 'cause she was curious, or wanted it. With Dracula is was at least partly mind-control.
Riley seemed to be get attracted to the darkness in Buffy's life, he wanted to understand it better, that's why he allowed himself to be bit. I'm not sure how that's any of Buffy's fault.

The point still stands that there are plenty of 'normal' people who function perfectly okay in Buffy's circle. They started out with no training or special abilities, unlike Riley, and they're still going on, (relatively) well-adjusted. The whole 'crushed by my life' is a pretty bleak view, but it does, sadly. apply to Riley.


To be clear, I sure hope your interpretation is the correct one, and not mine. But Buffy is kinda neurotic and has a tendancy to blames herself for things she has no control over- like her whole slayer life. 🙄

Oh, and I too agree that the dialogue was a real step up from S9, just like I could hear DB and Eliza speaking through their characters in A&F, I'm getting the same thing here through Buffy when she speaks. 🙂
 
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