"Forever": Did you want to see Joyce?

BuffyElevated

BuffyElevated

Scooby
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Messages
12,182
Age
44
Location
Tennessee
Sineya
I just got done rewatching "Forever" on LOGO... The end with zombie Joyce walking across the yard always creeps me out... I was so glad Dawn ripped that picture in half to end the spell just in time.

It got me thinking though... What if Dawn hadn't ripped the picture? Would you have wanted to see how that played out?
 
No. I can't imagine how heartbreaking it would have been, especially if Buffy had to... end it. I think it might have broken her.
 
When I first saw the episode, I was really disappointed that they didn't show Joyce. I thought her silhouette was creepy and zombie like, so I was wondering what exactly she looked like. However, now that I'm older, I understand why they ended it the way they did. I think Dawn had finally accepted that Joyce was gone for good and wasn't coming back.
 
Ooo, I think it would've been TERRIFYING to see her!

As they left it, it's somewhat questionable as to whether or not it even IS actually her (I personally think it was, but...they left it a bit open-ended). At any rate, I don't think it would've been ACTUALLY her, like when Willow brought Buffy back. It would've been some kind of mindless zombie, and that would've ended horribly for them all.
 
white avenger said:
I think that it's better that we don't really know who, or what, actually came back.
Click to expand...

I totally agree. I have always wondered what she looked like and how Buffy and Dawn would have handled that but I really think the writers were smart to write it the way they did. I think it was best for everyone to leave Joyces memory untarnished.
 
It would have been very cheap to see her, because then the emotional impact of "The Body" is lessened, in my opinion. If we don't get to see her, we're truly experiencing the same grief the girls are feeling, so it's for the audience's benefit in that respect.

As far as the girls go, I think it would have only done damage to Dawn, which Buffy realizes since she's older, and it would have only made matters worse. Nobody is quite the same after death (as we see Buffy sure isn't after "The Gift"), and it could have wrecked both Dawn emotionally for her to see her mother like that. Not to mention, Dawn's spell probably wasn't as powerful as Willow's so who knows what else would have been messed up in the process.
 
I think story and writing wise I think it's perfect that we didn't get to see her. Because after you lose someone so close you are desperate to see them and you constantly imagine them coming through the door or appearing around the corner or seeing them on the street, but then you look and there's no one there. And I think this episode really captured that. Especially in the last moments Buffy loses her reserve and runs to the door like a little girl and it's in fact Dawn who makes the final decision that it's wrong and that their mum is really gone (gosh that scene between Dawn and Buffy always makes me cry! It's so well done and so well written).

But yes part of me, with morbid viewer curiosity wanted to see Joyce or what Dawn had summoned. She does walk zombie like, but then again she could have just been shuffling in a stunned kinda way like Buffy was when she came back to life. Because she actually knocks on the door (even if it appears to be rather a heavy knock) my mother always presumed the spell had actually worked and that it was Joyce but I don't know. I think that's it; it's kinda left up to the viewers. They either saved themselves the horror of seeing zombie mum or they missed the chance of their mother returned to them.

Side note: the fact that Spike wants to help with the spell always touches me. Because eve though it was the wrong thing to do, his heart was in the right place and, for me, proved that despite vampire tendencies he was such a good person when living that he still had a bit of goodness left in him.
 
white avenger said:
I think that it's better that we don't really know who, or what, actually came back.
Click to expand...

I didn't get a chance to finish this, and probably shouldn't have even posted that little bit, but to continue...

That scene reminded me of a short story that we read in Literature back when I was in high school, called "The Monkey's Paw,"

(Here it is, if you've never read it)

http://www.americanliterature.com/author/w-w-jacobs/short-story/the-monkeys-paw

about a charm that would grant its owner 3 wishes, but each wish came with a penalty. I've always wondered whether or not Joss or whoever wrote that episode was intentionally using it, or if it was just a coincidence. Either way, it's always been one of those scenes on "Buffy" that are pure horror to me.
 
UnderYourSpell
UnderYourSpell
yes I thought this when I watched this episode
I've always wanted to see what the heck came out of the grave..lol..it's morbid but I am so curious...to this day, part of me wishes we could have the chance to see "zombie-like" Joyce.

But story and character wise, it's best we didn't and it's best for Dawn and Buffy. The ending to Forever was superb just the way it was.
 
white avenger said:
I think that it's better that we don't really know who, or what, actually came back.
Click to expand...

I agree. The silhouette outside the window was really creepy. I like to hope that it wasn't Joyce at all but some other random monster, because here's my issue:

If it WAS Joyce, where did she go when the picture was ripped? Was she magically returned to her grave? If they dug up the grave, would she be there or not? That always really bothered me, because it makes me think that the spell could have disturbed her rest or trapped her spirit in some kind of halfway place...
 
white avenger said:
I didn't get a chance to finish this, and probably shouldn't have even posted that little bit, but to continue...

That scene reminded me of a short story that we read in Literature back when I was in high school, called "The Monkey's Paw,"

(Here it is, if you've never read it)

http://www.americanliterature.com/author/w-w-jacobs/short-story/the-monkeys-paw

about a charm that would grant its owner 3 wishes, but each wish came with a penalty. I've always wondered whether or not Joss or whoever wrote that episode was intentionally using it, or if it was just a coincidence. Either way, it's always been one of those scenes on "Buffy" that are pure horror to me.
Click to expand...


YES!! I was telling my hubby last night that that episode made me think of that story so much. He had never seen/read it, so I was trying to remember the name but I did remember the end of the story and how it was reflected in that big scene in "Forever".
 
white avenger said:
I didn't get a chance to finish this, and probably shouldn't have even posted that little bit, but to continue...

That scene reminded me of a short story that we read in Literature back when I was in high school, called "The Monkey's Paw,"

(Here it is, if you've never read it)

http://www.americanliterature.com/author/w-w-jacobs/short-story/the-monkeys-paw

about a charm that would grant its owner 3 wishes, but each wish came with a penalty. I've always wondered whether or not Joss or whoever wrote that episode was intentionally using it, or if it was just a coincidence. Either way, it's always been one of those scenes on "Buffy" that are pure horror to me.
Click to expand...

This is exactly what I thought of when I saw the episode!
 
Ohh, that's a creepy thought!

I'm glad we didn't get to see her. But, I have to admit, part of me is really curious and does want to see exactly what it was that Dawn raised.

I see that some of you have mentioned the story "The Monkey's Paw", which I've never read myself, but I do know of it.

Personally, the whole thing reminded me of Stephen King's Pet Sematary, both the book and the movie. "Sometimes dead is better" - *shudders*

OutForAWalk said:
If it WAS Joyce, where did she go when the picture was ripped? Was she magically returned to her grave? If they dug up the grave, would she be there or not? That always really bothered me, because it makes me think that the spell could have disturbed her rest or trapped her spirit in some kind of halfway place...
Click to expand...

I never thought about that. Interesting....damn, now that's gonna bother me too! haha
 
I agree with OutforaWalk. I always hoped and assumed that the whole spell dident ruin Joyce resting in Peace. I also always assumed it was a Zombie. Dawn dident really know what she was doing the way Willow did, plus she got most of the info from Doc who is shady. I am curious what would have happened if she dident rip the picture but it's better that they dident tarnish her memory.
 
I would have liked to see Zombie Joyce but not for Buffy having to kill her. But it makes for a great fan fiction idea!
 
HisMrs said:
I just got done rewatching "Forever" on LOGO... The end with zombie Joyce walking across the yard always creeps me out... I was so glad Dawn ripped that picture in half to end the spell just in time.

It got me thinking though... What if Dawn hadn't ripped the picture? Would you have wanted to see how that played out?
Click to expand...

I could be wrong, but I seem to remember that Joss said that wasn't Joyce. It was the First.
 
fester75 said:
I could be wrong, but I seem to remember that Joss said that wasn't Joyce. It was the First.
Click to expand...

It seems a little weird if it was The First... I mean it could have been but I think you're thinking about the times in Season 7 when she appeared to Buffy and Dawn.
 
SMG14Fan
SMG14Fan
[No message]
I did. I want to see her come back and hug Dawn even if it was just for that episode and then she'd be dead again.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom