Fred's Soul (possible spoilers)

Okay, Drogyn said that Fred's soul was consumed by Illyria when she took over Fred's body, and we know that, apparently, Drogyn can only tell the truth, which would pretty well mean that the soul no longer exists. We also know that Joss said that, if there had been a televised Season 6, one of the plans was to have Illyria and Fred split into two separate beings, so he must have had a plan on how to recover that soul. As for what that plan might be, we'll probably never know unless the idea is revived at some time in the future, but a few viable methods might be:

1) Illyria "consumed" Fred's soul, which doesn't necessarily mean that it was destroyed, only that it was used in some way in the transformation process, in about the same way that you might consume food. It doesn't cease to exist, it is essentially just changed from one form to another, converted into potential energy for the body to use as required. That being the case, that energy, Fred's soul, might be somehow re-converted into its original form. And since we're working with something here that is formless and unmeasurable either way, converting metaphysical energy back into something that might also be described as a metaphysical energy might actually be easier than changibng potential energy stored within your body back into last night's steak and potatoes. (Something similar might also be used to bring Wes back)

2) Angel has already worked out a bargain with the Powers That Be to make a day disappear, It might be just as possible to work out another deal by which he could travel back to the moment before Fred's soul was consumed and catch it in one of those soul holding jugs like his was stored in a couple of times, then bring it back to the present and re-install it in Fred's new body (If anyone could get around the new "no magic" rule, it would be either the Powers or the Senior Partners)

3) Angel might work out some sort of deal with the Senior Partners that would result in the restoration of Fred or Fred and Wes both to the land of the living.

That's three more or less viable solutions for recovering Fred's soul. I'm sure that Joss and his writing staff could come up wit a dozen more, probably better ones.
 
caitaintdead
caitaintdead
Did you just liken Fred and her soul to poop?
white avenger said:
We also know that Joss said that, if there had been a televised Season 6, one of the plans was to have Illyria and Fred split into two separate beings, so he must have had a plan on how to recover that soul.
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My thoughts exactly. It's practically a contradiction of everything Drogyn said about Fred's soul. I really hope they try this idea though, I just have no idea how they'll get around the whole "Fred's soul has been destroyed by Illyria" thing. Tricky.

When you say that the PTB would strike up another deal with Angel and reverse time and capture Fred's soul, this is probably the most unlikely situation. They were very generous to take back a day for him, I couldn't see them reversing back time several months. We all can dream, though 🙁
 
Her soul was permanently destroyed...

...although I'm sure it will be revealed there's some miraculous way to recover it if Joss ever plans on bringing Fred back in the comics.
 
Also, we've seen Illyria completely revert to Fred when her parents visited W&H, right down to her personality and everything. Maybe someday she will decide to become Fred again?
 
HisMrs said:
Didn't Drogyn say her soul had been completely destroyed by Illyria when she took over Fred's body?
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I think that the exact word that Drogyn used was "consumed," but even if he had said destroyed, Angel just pretty much accepted it and gave up. Drogyn can only speak the truth, right? But the literal truth doesn't always mean the ENTIRE truth. Nobody ever bothered to ask him specifically if there was any way to restore, resurrect, rejuvenate, or is some way create an exact duplicate of Fred's soul. Any or all of those options might be completely possible. Too bad Giles refused to relay Angel's request for help on to Willow, or this whole mess might have been easily avoided.
 
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TeamSunnydale
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spikecakes
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I think that when Illyria took over Fred's body she completely repressed fred's soul. but in those small bits where illyria seemed more human, i think that was fred trying to come out. i i think that illyria had the power to let fred out if she completely gave up.
sounds kinda stupid i guess, but it seems like this to me 🙂
 
Drogyn didn't say Fred's soul was destroyed that was Doctor Sparrow. Although I'm in denial on the whole soul destroying thing, and either its not true or there is some loophole that could reverse the whole thing, it was a mystical death and mysticals deaths are reversible so I think there is still hope, even if its never made canon in anyway.
 
citiegal17 said:
Drogyn didn't say Fred's soul was destroyed that was Doctor Sparrow. Although I'm in denial on the whole soul destroying thing, and either its not true or there is some loophole that could reverse the whole thing, it was a mystical death and mysticals deaths are reversible so I think there is still hope, even if its never made canon in anyway.
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Precisely. If they could bring Buffy back - why not Fred? They just gave up hope when they heard from a deranged doctor that her soul had been destroyed. Makes no sense, if you ask me.
 
I think it's much more likely that instead of being destroyed, Fred's soul has instead been fused with Illyria. I just find it hard to believe that Illyria would have wanted to explore a relationship with Wesley and have been so drawn and concerned for him if not for Fred's soul now being a part of her or that she would have protected Gunn and then let him live after the time fold thing. Yeah, yeah I know that she has her memories, but I think if Illyria was like it was before, as an old one, it would shrug off Fred's memories as being nothing much more than a by product of its shell. So yeah, that's what I think. I think Fred's soul will only be released if/when Illyria dies.
 
I don't know how to edit yet, so I'll add that in the end of After the Fall Angel says that he knows there is no way for Fred and Wesley to be together now. But there's a warm breeze and he says "she hates it when I'm pessimistic." She being Cordelia. I think that part was ambiguous enough for someone to be cautiously hopeful that Fred and Wesley are or can be together someday. Since it could be a sign, since Cordelia is...whatever she is know, that she was telling Angel what I said before.
 
spikecakes, I already gave my opinion on this in another thread, but I personally think Fred's soul isn't gone but has instead been fused irreversibly into Illyria. Her actions towards Wesley: when she followed him around Wolfram & Hart, when she said she wanted to explore a relationship with him, when she comforted and cried for him when he died, when she held his body and bowed her head in the comics and said "you're staying with me," is all proof enough for me of that. If Illyria was as it was supposed to be as an Old One, only serving the master of your ambition, believing humans to be nothing but scum, believing itself to be so far above it all, Illyria would have never acted that way towards Wesley. And yeah "memories" but seriously, wouldn't a big, bad Old One just shrug those off and seek out ways to rule the world? Her army's gone, so get a new army!
 
Amyrat151 said:
spikecakes, I already gave my opinion on this in another thread, but I personally think Fred's soul isn't gone but has instead been fused irreversibly into Illyria. Her actions towards Wesley: when she followed him around Wolfram & Hart, when she said she wanted to explore a relationship with him, when she comforted and cried for him when he died, when she held his body and bowed her head in the comics and said "you're staying with me," is all proof enough for me of that. If Illyria was as it was supposed to be as an Old One, only serving the master of your ambition, believing humans to be nothing but scum, believing itself to be so far above it all, Illyria would have never acted that way towards Wesley. And yeah "memories" but seriously, wouldn't a big, bad Old One just shrug those off and seek out ways to rule the world? Her army's gone, so get a new army!
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Brilliant theory, mate! I like how you think Fred's soul fused to Illyria, makes me a bit happier to think she isn't really gone. She's also still helping the world by keeping the evil inside Illyria at bay. 'Cause seriously, without Fred's memories, Illyria would have still wreaked havoc on the world; with or without her army.
 
But I don't think it's just her memories, unless Fred had some supper powered memories.
Thanks. I think that since in the Buffyverse a human soul, amongst other things, is something that allows someone to not only feel guilt, but to feel compassion, to be forgiving, and allows someone to be selfless. And in the comics, Illyria does feel a lot of guilt for taking Fred away from Wesley. She also appears to I haven't gotten too far in the comics, so I can't expand more on Illyria's human actions, but from what I've read there's shades of forgiveness and compassion in her. I know that we're told Illyria is just forcing herself to be like Fred and Fred's soul is gone, but why would she care to be like her if she wasn't affected by human soul? Or why would she try and understand humans instead of going off to take them over?
 
The way I read it is that Illyria consumed Fred's soul in the same way that she consumed her body- by using it as raw material for her being incarnated in the human world. I think Illyria is constantly using what she learns from Fred's soul to enable her to live inside a human body and interact with the world around her.
 
Ianigsy, that's kind of what I'm saying. That Fred's soul wasn't destroyed, more like recycled. But I want to believe this, I admit, so that if/when Illyria dies, Fred's soul will be released some way, and Fred and Wesley can be together is some shape or form, but I think that I at least have reasons to hope for this possibility.
 
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