Gay subtext in media: why?

Personally, I don't go looking for subtext at all, unless it's very much in-your-face (like Fuffy).

About the LGBT thing, the subtext doesn't bother me nearly as much as some other things regarding the LGBT community (Such as hating on Bisexuals and claiming that Bisexuality doesn't exist).
 
Everyone gets shipped. Even siblings, be it gay or straight. Others are downright surreal, like Draco getting Harry Potter pregnant. I remember we had someone here--which I point out with no criticism intended at all--that liked the idea of shipping Buffy with Sid the puppet.

I've pondered this for years as it puzzles me so (and I tend to be amused by it as long as it doesn't get hostile, hating people who don't like their ships, or like that disturbed person who hated on Buffy for preferring Bangel over Spuffy). I think there are many reasons involved (which is to say not everyone does it for the same reason), but I have noticed that if they tend to follow a formula then they will be shipped hard. One brother/sister pairing (Justin & Alex in Wizards of Waverly Place) became so pervasive after the movie that Disney actually forced the characters into other relationships to counter it, but to me it was a natural consequence to the movie that followed a formula, the same type of formula that got used in Frozen that had me walking out of a first viewing knowing Anna & Elsa were going to be shipped hard. It's the standard romance formula, but it's usually not intended, in which the characters bicker but grow close through trying times, show uninhibited affection for each other, and one saves the other (or they save each other). Put another way, had Alex and Justin NOT been siblings who went through the same adventure, and same for Elsa and Anna (especially if one were a man), then the audience would've been WTF and unsatisfied that it didn't end in a romantic pairing, because that's how those stories are supposed to go.

I think contributing to this is that passionate love is so heightened and promoted as necessary for happiness while familial and friendship and even purely platonic loves are devalued if not even held in contempt, so that the pay off means there MUST be romance.

There might be a bit of the forbidden relationship and "star crossed lovers" at work as well, though gay romances aren't as forbidden as they used to be, but still controversial (and can thus be inserted strictly to raise controversy which will raise viewership, and thus make money). This also makes for easy drama which draws audiences in and gets people tense to see how it works out. Perhaps writers and readers and viewers like it because it's a safe way to explore relationships in a way they'd never dare in real life (even if they're not particularly interested in doing so at any level there can still be curiosity about it).

And let's not forget that's how people are in every other way as well. I'm sure you remember it from middle school on up if you went to school on constantly talking about who likes who, who'd you "do," who you marry. I remember playing MASH as young as 10 years old with other girls (and some of them had been playing it for years by that time). And that obsessive interest something many never outgrow...just watch the news and tabloids, people still want to know the same stuff about who's screwing who, who's dating whom, and all that, and typically gossip about that on the people they know (guys seem to do it as well). There's a common game on the internet on who you'd go gay (or straight) for, and of course the Marry, Shag, and Kill game. There seems to be an obsession on figuring out who's secretly gay as well...I recall how some people about celebrated as "vindicated" when Jodie Foster came out.

That is, romance and/or sex greatly interest people, especially that which is a bit odd, and just as many constantly wonder about who is hooking up with whom in real life, they do it with the characters they care about in fiction as well. And when you do it so much, some of them will inevitably be gay, and may be fascinated with gay pairings in particular just as people tend to be fascinated in figuring out who else is gay in real life.
 
Follow the money. If your show is funded by luxury advertisers, you want to make the show LGBT-friendly. Who is going to be a customer for an exotic cruise or to be a little more down to earth, expensive food, cosmetics or cars? Not the house-poor family with 2.4 children and a 30-year mortgage. They want a show that will attract people with money. That means no children and no family complications. That means the LGBT crowd. There have already been gay ads for beer and other such commodities. The writers lay the groundwork (such as Faith tracing out a heart on condensation in the classroom window) which suggests a possible lesbian relationship with Buffy but we never see them go any further than that. But that's all they need - they provide the canvas and we project all our wishes and expectations on them including gay subtext. And people are pleased with themselves to "decrypt" what they assume is a coded message to them.
 
You are absolutely correct, Puppet. Having said that, I must conclude that it is only another attempt to create discussions empty of meaning and problems where there are no real problems. In other words, it is another diversionary tactic to sway people from the true problems & issues that plague us, such as sinkholes, mass wildlife extinction, drugs, etc.

Compliments, Puppet, on keying in to this that too many take for unimportant or too trivial to take seriously. Often it is the small and subtle things in life that have large consequences and extensive meanings.
 
Yes, part of the agenda, You're not the only one questioning it. But say something and be called a homophobic asshole.
I have noticed an general increase in explicit sex scenes in otherwise interesting/enjoyable shows. Doesnt matter if it is gay or straight, its still repulsive to me. I prefer to read my porn (sw).

Yep Ayko, I took the name calling to heart over the Aussie campaign, sent me nuts. Gotta not care. Certain fun has helped with that lol.
 
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Ayko
Ayko
Who cares what they call you? It only shows their fear of the truth so, ignore it and continue to voice concerns, I say, or marry someone who does ;)
It's something that I was completely oblivious to before coming onto this forum. That Fuffy was such a massively supported ship was a real surprise and still somewhat of a mystery to me. I now realise that there's someone out there who will ship anyone with anyone else and that's cool. People can enjoy their media however they choose.

There are only two things that bother me. One is writers throwing in a sexuality change of an established character because they've run out of ideas or to generate interest. That's what Buffy and Satsu is to me.

The other is when shippers start trying to force their vision onto the writers and get whiny when told no. This is an issue for the Sherlock team. Loads of people ship Sherlock and Watson and keep asking about them getting together. The writers have made it clear they're both straight. Ship and enjoy whatever you like but don't try to hassle people to see it your way.
 
The internet has made everything easier, the last 20 years fandom has exploded, before it was mainly through magazine and non canon official books, plus the odd convention, usually smaller or run by the official networks. Now you have fanfiction, and websites devoted to it, conventions are worldwide and easy to find out about, plus social media where you can easily see the friendships between cast members, making one person vision of subtext be available to everyone and it catches on quickly. The writers can see instantly the reaction a line has on the fans, and they can add other little lines here and there to keep that going, it is pandering to the fans but it is also keeping the fans watching, just in case!
 
I don't think there's a single reason for it. I agree with @Ethan Reigns inasmuch as it can be the deliberate targeting of the "pink pound" in keeping with the commodification of other aspects of identity and with @Blaze (gay-baiting, feishization). I also think there's a slippage between the homosocial, the homoerotic and the homosexual that allows people to suture themselves and their desires into the text. The slippage isn't new but online fan communities are a relatively recent development and make it more visible. @WillowFromBuffy makes a good point - why wouldn't you? There is an automatic presumption that characters (and children) are straight until they "come out of the closet" (there's a nice film My Life in Pink/Ma Vie en Rose that highlights this) - why shouldn't people with a non-normative sexuality presume otherwise? As for "forcing" a storyline - I take the point but narrative form is cultural, not natural and always conveys an ideological viewpoint whether we see it or not.

Have I just agreed with everyone? Yay me!
 
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WillowFromBuffy
Not a 100% sure if that was my point, but I like it.
I am a sheep. I am probably gonna sit here and ship gay couples on TV until my house falls into a hole.
btw, don't misunderstand with my karma click comment 'hopefully' not meaning I hope your house falls in a hole (*pit) rather that you are a sheep. I wish nobody (friends, strangers, enemies) ugly fortune or bad luck and I am happy that you read my thread commentary. Just wanted to make sure you know that.
 
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WillowFromBuffy
Aw! Thanks, I guess, but it was so much funnier when I thought you wanted me dead xD
I always find this topic ridiculous. People ship characters who they think have chemistry. Always have and always will. Is it so shocking to straight people that some people see chemistry between two men or two women, even if they were not technically written like that? There are many times when the chemistry is undeniably there, and if it was a man and woman, no on would be saying "they're just friends" or "stop shipping it" and the writers would be shoving the couple down our throats. In a lot of instances, it's the writers refusing to make good on all that hints they've thrown at the audience that is ridiculous, not people shipping them.

I guess it's just something that some people are completely blind to. But to say that no one can ship a gay ship is unless it's completely canon is ridiculous and imo homophobic. Why do we have to tons of unnecessary validation before we can be taken seriously as fans? Do people shame Mulder and Scully fans? No, because they're straight, so of course they're taken seriously as love interests, even if they're not really canon. Whereas when you have two women with incredible chemistry who work as partners and know each other in much the same way, such as Jane and Maura on Rizzoli and Isles, the fans are ridiculed. I'm over it.
 
I always find this topic ridiculous. People ship characters who they think have chemistry. Always have and always will. Is it so shocking to straight people that some people see chemistry between two men or two women, even if they were not technically written like that? There are many times when the chemistry is undeniably there, and if it was a man and woman, no on would be saying "they're just friends" or "stop shipping it" and the writers would be shoving the couple down our throats. In a lot of instances, it's the writers refusing to make good on all that hints they've thrown at the audience that is ridiculous, not people shipping them.

I guess it's just something that some people are completely blind to. But to say that no one can ship a gay ship is unless it's completely canon is ridiculous and imo homophobic. Why do we have to tons of unnecessary validation before we can be taken seriously as fans? Do people shame Mulder and Scully fans? No, because they're straight, so of course they're taken seriously as love interests, even if they're not really canon. Whereas when you have two women with incredible chemistry who work as partners and know each other in much the same way, such as Jane and Maura on Rizzoli and Isles, the fans are ridiculed. I'm over it.
Just read through the thread, whereas I skipped to the end before, and wow, some of you guys are being pretty gross.
 
@WillowFromBuffy No need to guess. I do enjoy your messages and sometimes semi-sarcastic style and respect you. I would only want you dead if we could do it together. 😉
Plus, you are almost as funny as me 😛
 
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WillowFromBuffy
That is very sweet of you. I will call you up if I need a suicide partner, but I don't want to mess up this thread.
So now we’re not even allowed to ship non canon ships and have to be contented with the scraps we get from the canon? Really?

Queerbaiting is a thing and while I understand how it can annoy the straights, trust me it is 10x more annoying for gays. We’re being baited into watching shows and then made fun of. The cast and crew more often than not will not take us seriously because how funny is it that those gays ship 2 friends of the same gender together wow! When that would be a non issue if they were straight...
 
So now we’re not even allowed to ship non canon ships and have to be contented with the scraps we get from the canon? Really?

Queerbaiting is a thing and while I understand how it can annoy the straights, trust me it is 10x more annoying for gays. We’re being baited into watching shows and then made fun of. The cast and crew more often than not will not take us seriously because how funny is it that those gays ship 2 friends of the same gender together wow! When that would be a non issue if they were straight...

Exactly! And oftentimes the cast themselves or the writers are the ones making fun of us. They call us crazy for seeing something that is apparently not there, but those writers know exactly what they are doing. This happened last year with Supergirl, it was a pretty big deal when the cast made fun of one of the most popular non cannon gay ship. We were called crazy for even thinking that the two characters could be an item, but the writers knew that people would ship them, especially considering they gave those two characters some of the classical Superman romance scenes. It's hypocrisy at it's finest. People bait us into thinking a ship might happen, and then laugh at us for thinking so. It's a very damaging mentality, especially for gay youth.
 
I always saw it more as straight baiting. Teasing and innuendo when most people realize it's nothing but that. It's been going on in various media since the 60s.
 
Yes, part of the agenda, You're not the only one questioning it. But say something and be called a homophobic asshole.
I have noticed an general increase in explicit sex scenes in otherwise interesting/enjoyable shows. Doesnt matter if it is gay or straight, its still repulsive to me.

I noticed that this "trend" gained more popularity around the same time Caitlin Jenner did that magazine cover. I don't believe in coincidence...

The PC squad grew in number around that time as well; it became fashionable to scream, "Intolerance!" if someone disagreed with you. That's what I have a problem with. Personally, I don't care how other people conduct their private lives. But when someone decides critiises me because of MY beliefs, that's when the problems began.

You see a lot of this on Twitter, by the way. Basically, "If you don't agree with what we believe, you're:

A) Racist
B) Homophobic
C) All of the above
 
Pfffff! We kicked Jenner out of the PC squad ages ago for supporting Trump.

I realise I tend to criticise non-canon ships a lot, Fuffy especially. I just want to have it on record that I definitely see both the subtext and the chemistry, especially from Faith. I would have been all for it if it had not been for Faith's evil arc. And even if they ever do a Giles origin story, it needs to contain an Ethan romance.

Transformative fiction is a great way to democratise pop culture. And if 90 % of the viewers of Sherlock ship Holmes and Watson, maybe they should stop being so bloody coy about it and just let them kiss. There should be a limit on the number of cheap gay jokes a show was allowed to make before actually having a confirmed gay character.

With that out of the way, I am never going to say anything nice about Fuffy ever again. The woman poisoned Angel and bullied Tara.
 
Geobubbles
Geobubbles
Yass I'm part of the 10% Us Sheriartys got our kiss :p
And if 90 % of the viewers of Sherlock ship Holmes and Watson, maybe they should stop being so bloody coy about it and just let them kiss.
That's a big if. I'd wager it's closer to 5 or 10% that generate a lot of noise.
 
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WillowFromBuffy
Well, I am sure only 1 % were invested in Watson and his wife.
I noticed that this "trend" gained more popularity around the same time Caitlin Jenner did that magazine cover. I don't believe in coincidence...

The PC squad grew in number around that time as well; it became fashionable to scream, "Intolerance!" if someone disagreed with you. That's what I have a problem with. Personally, I don't care how other people conduct their private lives. But when someone decides critiises me because of MY beliefs, that's when the problems began.

You see a lot of this on Twitter, by the way. Basically, "If you don't agree with what we believe, you're:

A) Racist
B) Homophobic
C) All of the above

It's okay to disagree, but when people start saying that they don't believe in being gay or that they believe being gay is wrong, then that is homophobic. Some people believe it is okay to use racial slurs, doesn't make it any less racist. Again, the problen isn't that you disagree about a ship and think that the character is straight, the problem is when you turn around and critisize others for liking that ship. That's doing to others exactly what you don't like being done to yourself.
 
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