Giles And Buffy, A Matter Of Trust

Parents are as human as children. They make mistakes, and usually when they do make them, their intentions tend to be about what's good for their children, it's usually for the benefit of the child.

Giles shouldn't have gone behind Buffy's back, but I think his reasons are very understandable.
 
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Eleftheria
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i believe in the verry first seasons giles saw that buffy don't have the father that should be there for his/her child.
giles took that place, beside he was her watcher AND librarian of the school too. so they could not be together as a real father daughter relationship.

i think also that giles know's were spike is capapble of. spike is an vampire, and there were a few girls...possible slayers.... in the house. and of course spike was an timebomb of what the first had done to him.

i think, the real thoughts of letting spike killed are. he's a vampire, only a handfull last slayers ever. and what he did before he had a sole and a chip.

otherwise. buffy saw only that giles has kept her on the semeetary so our principal could kill spike.....

ok, spike was healed. buffy believe that spike could be a good (dead) man. and spike had saved the scooby lives a lot.





or it ever would be OK between buffy and giles? ( i know whats happened to him )
well, its a matter of time...
i believe its would be Ok between buffy and giles, wen buffy is ready to forgive.....
 
Because I always understood Giles' stance on Spike to be one of danger, not morality (i.e. it's not an issue of Spike deserving to die as some sort of punishment, but because he is a threat to Buffy and the Potentials), I sympathized with his beliefs on Spike the same as I did Xander's fears with Angelus. IMHO, Buffy was careless and selfish in both instances.
 
Gideon said:
Because I always understood Giles' stance on Spike to be one of danger, not morality (i.e. it's not an issue of Spike deserving to die as some sort of punishment, but because he is a threat to Buffy and the Potentials), I sympathized with his beliefs on Spike the same as I did Xander's fears with Angelus. IMHO, Buffy was careless and selfish in both instances.
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Yeah, This.

Even though i disagree with the Xander/Angel thing - i think there were a bit more to it than just "the fear of Angelus" 😉
 
Gideon said:
Because I always understood Giles' stance on Spike to be one of danger, not morality (i.e. it's not an issue of Spike deserving to die as some sort of punishment, but because he is a threat to Buffy and the Potentials), I sympathized with his beliefs on Spike the same as I did Xander's fears with Angelus. IMHO, Buffy was careless and selfish in both instances.
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This is where I come out as well. I also believe that Buffy understood this, and that their relationship was too strong and deep to be destroyed, or even much harmed, by this incident. Both of them have shown, over and over, that they understand human frailty and mistakes, and that they have the capacity to forgive. I'm positive Buffy forgave Giles and their relationship recovered from this. In fact, the lingering, loving, glance they exchanged in Chosen ("I think it's bloody brilliant. If you want my opinion." "Really do.") proves that they recovered.

I don't know much about season 8 other than what happens in 39, so I don't know if s8 proves what I've said to be wrong. But that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
 
To answer the original post, I think that no, Buffy will never fully trust Giles again. But I think that is partly due to the fact that he left her when she needed him most in Season Six. I think that did almost as much damage to their relationship as the Spike/Wood thing.

Buffy depended on Giles in a way that she didn't depend on anyone else and when he left her the only thing she could do was adapt and not need him anymore. Giles came and tried to make a protective decision for her which doesn't work after he'd already forced her to be an adult and take care of everything without him.

I think Buffy and Giles will always be close but I don't think it will ever be quite the same.
 
T
ticonderouga
good point
caritas08 said:
To answer the original post, I think that no, Buffy will never fully trust Giles again. But I think that is partly due to the fact that he left her when she needed him most in Season Six. I think that did almost as much damage to their relationship as the Spike/Wood thing.
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I understand what you're saying and I still hate that he left her when she needed him most. (I continue to repeat that the actor's choice to spend more time with his family left the writers with a difficult task.) But she had clearly forgiven him for that in Grave, telling him that he was right to leave. Unless you think she was lying to him; but why would she do that? He was apologizing for leaving and if she were still mad about that she could have said so.
 
patriot1123 said:
I understand what you're saying and I still hate that he left her when she needed him most. (I continue to repeat that the actor's choice to spend more time with his family left the writers with a difficult task.) But she had clearly forgiven him for that in Grave, telling him that he was right to leave. Unless you think she was lying to him; but why would she do that? He was apologizing for leaving and if she were still mad about that she could have said so.
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I think she did forgive him and even agree with his decision but she will never lean on him in the same way. Her trust in him was hurt in the sense that she couldn't depend on him and had to become completely self sufficient apart from him.

When you become completely 100% independent from someone you once needed(especially a mentor/parental figure who has left you) you are always going to hold them at arm's length to a degree because if you project that total trust and allow yourself to depend on them again you will get hurt.

I feel her situation with Angel when he leaves at the end of Season 3 is similar. She admits his leaving was the right decision but she will never allow herself to depend on Angel again like she did before and for better or worse this creates some emotional distance.
 
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patriot1123
I agree with all of that.
Poor Buffy/Giles relationship, it was so awesome. Honestly though, you can see it coming, after season 4 Giles starts to slightly suffers from what I like to call "Xander Syndrome", which is when your character has no more developing to do. Buffy developed into a independent and strong woman, and having someone who was going to hold her hand is just going to defeat that development.

Regardless, I love Giles, I just wish the writers could have found a new dimension to his character so he could stay fresh on the show
 
Hale Caesar said:
Poor Buffy/Giles relationship, it was so awesome. Honestly though, you can see it coming, after season 4 Giles starts to slightly suffers from what I like to call "Xander Syndrome", which is when your character has no more developing to do. Buffy developed into a independent and strong woman, and having someone who was going to hold her hand is just going to defeat that development.

Regardless, I love Giles, I just wish the writers could have found a new dimension to his character so he could stay fresh on the show
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While I mostly agree with this, he did have some "fresh" moments, particularly in Grave, where we saw a more kick-ass Giles than we had previously seen; and more of the physical courage that we had seen before.
 
Hale Caesar said:
Poor Buffy/Giles relationship, it was so awesome. Honestly though, you can see it coming, after season 4 Giles starts to slightly suffers from what I like to call "Xander Syndrome", which is when your character has no more developing to do. Buffy developed into a independent and strong woman, and having someone who was going to hold her hand is just going to defeat that development.

Regardless, I love Giles, I just wish the writers could have found a new dimension to his character so he could stay fresh on the show
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Very good point - For Giles to have more character development, there would have to have been a Big Giles Arc as the counter, or rather addition, to Buffy-Riley and Buffy-Spike arcs. There was not sufficient screen time to have both with either the Buffy-Spike arc or the Buffy-Riley period. Giles could have been used as a counterpart character to Maggie Walsh,to adult mentors, but instead the focus was on Buffy as the prime protagonist against The Initiative and on the relationship between Buffy and Riley.

As far as Buffy and Giles forgiving the events around Wood and the attempt to kill Spike, the scene with Buffy, Willow and Giles are doing research on the Slayer Scythe and Buffy's comment about lousy communication was the attempt to bring the characters back together. The same goes for their scene in BS8 when Giles and Buffy are talking and he tells her how proud of her he is and what a very special woman she has developed into.
 
patriot1123 said:
While I mostly agree with this, he did have some "fresh" moments, particularly in Grave, where we saw a more kick-ass Giles than we had previously seen; and more of the physical courage that we had seen before.
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Exactly. His appearance in "Grave" was a moment that literally made me stand up on my couch and yell "GILES!!". I wish we got more moments like that, I think he should have become more like Gunn in later seasons, and have a more physical role, even if he fought more with magic I think that would have worked well.
 
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