Have there been instances where you just hated your favorite characters?

[Robb Stark]

For a character you generally deem to be among your top favorites, have they done something that just drove you nuts?

Angel is probably my favorite overall character in the Buffyverse, but when he killed Drogyn, even though I knew why he did it and understood, I was pretty angry. I've never sympathized or understood a character more than Angel, but that pissed me off.

If Angel is my number one favorite, Buffy is 1A. That being said, I despised her supposedly sending Andrew in Angel S5, and Andrew's speech to Angel and Spike about her motivations. So much so that I just kind of fan-canon that they came from Giles, because coming from Buffy they make zero sense.

Spike is right up there for me as well as a favorite character (for me those three stand out and everyone else is miles behind them, so I felt I should include Spike as well). I can put the things he did without a soul to one side, just as I do with Angelus, so I'm sticking here with ensouled Spike. The talk he gives to Angel in "Destiny" when they're fighting over the chalice drove me crazy. I've always been a big Spike guy, but the things he said to Angel and how self-serving his reasoning was really ticked me off.

What about you guys? Any moments that stick out like those?

 

[kittenpoker]

Good question! Let's see.... (I should preface this by saying I do have quite a few favorite characters)

Angel: - Timing.... Breaking up with Buffy in the sewers (s3) right as they're tracking a demon, "oh, I'm not gonna take you to prom, and by the way, after graduation I'm out of here, and I'm not gonna say goodbye" (obv not exact words - going for sentiment here) 🙂
- strangling wes in the hospital. I know this is highly debated but I did not like this one bit.
- erasing his whole team's memories (more or less - of a whole year)


Buffy:- "Spike can send assassins after me, that's fine, but when he goes after my boyfriend, that's going too far" (again going for sentiment) - although I think this does play well into the fact that, slayer or not she is a teenage girl, and this is a very teenage girly thing to say. still didn't like.
-Her lack of compassion for Willow after Oz left... Rather her lack of (what I feel is) enough compassion
- Beating up Spike in "dead things"

Cordy: Not recognizing that when she's in her kitchen right after Groo leaves, that the vision she sees of herself is in fact, a vision and those are warnings.

Fred: Yelling at Wes, right after he was strangled by angel.

Gunn: Not getting his worth.... feeling like he needs all that lawyer knowledge to "be someone" - thereby making the deal with the devil, as it were

Lindsay
- Pretending to be doyle

Willow: Bringing Dawn to rack's place - yes I know she was in the throws of addiction, but I don't like when she does this.

Xander:- "kick his ass"
- getting so huffed and puffed up at buffy in "dead man's party". I swear this is the closest buffy comes to hitting him, and I kinda don't blame her.
-leaving anya at the alter.... Yeah, I do hate him for this.

Giles:
- teaming up with Wood to kill Spike. Then taking her reaction against her in "Empty Places"
- the beginning of helpless.... I do feel her redeems himself in the end, but the beginning.... do. not. like!

I think that's it for now, but fair warning, I may think of more. 🙂

 

[SlayerPrincess]

In selfless when Buffy was quick to jump and kill Anya I was a little mad at her for that. I understand her reasoning and yea she did kill Angel and that was a very good point but still. And the whole Angel leaving Buffy thing, when the show was first airing that kinda made me hate him for a while, (even thogh I understand why) like I never even watched his show until recently (and I loved him on Buffy)

 

[Kean]

Hate is much too strong a word but Angel in S8 and Buffy in S7 pushed me to my limits. I think madly disappointed is a better way to describe it. Though you could say I hate situations they created for themselves or decisions they made. I've never hated them, though.

 

[itssmiletime]

Buffy: Get it done. What she said about Chloe was completely disgraceful on so many moral levels, and the way she just attacked people was awful. I don't care if there was a war going on, that's no way to treat people and a cop out justification.

Wesley Untouched. Really, so are you going to say to Bethany, a poor young woman, talking about her father in an angry way. He justified it by ''statistics''. Gross.

Xander Dead's Mans Party. I dislike everyone in that episode, with the exception of Buffy and Giles.

Willow Leaving Dawn at Rack's place and later threatening to turn her back into a ball of energy. How would Dawn, a poor teenage girl, be ''in her way''?

 

[Tuppence]

I really hated when Giles went behind Buffy's back to try and get rid of Spike and was all "it's time to stop playing the role of general and start being one". It just didn't seem to fit Giles' character, it went against everything he'd built up with Buffy, fight-wise it didn't make sense (I mean I know he was worried about him turning or going chip crazy or whatever but if Buffy really was to start acting like a General that's her decision). Giles in season 7 for the most part really annoyed me, it was the one season where I didn't really like him much. He seemed to go into stereotypical Watcher mode.

 

[Ethan Reigns]

Nobody has mentioned the cruciamentum, the bizarre disabling of the Slayer as presented in "Helpless" and the ridiculous amount of forgiveness shown by Buffy. If someone had drugged me and put me and my family (Joyce was captured here) in danger as Giles did here, the trust fuse would be blown permanently and the person who set me up would be under indictment, in this case for reckless endangerment and administering a noxious substance. Trust is like air bags and flash bulbs - they only work once and when it's over, it's done.

 

[SlayerFest]

Willow:

1. Ignoring Buffy in Dead Man's Party. "Oh Buffy I needed you I was going through stuff so I'm going to completely ignore you and your pain when you come back to town oh and invite tons of people to your house, thus making this whole ignoring you thing easier." I understand why she was upset and hurt but NO ONE took a damn second to consider what Buffy was going through. No one even asked her why she left. I kind of hated them all in that episode, except Giles. Oh and Xander's, "You should have seen what you put her through" was so incredibly stupid. I would have punched him. I seriously would have. He doesn't know a damn thing about their relationship or how it all went down when Buffy left UGHGHGHG sorry going off on a tangent.

2. Taking Dawn to Rack's. I felt sorry for her when she broke down but...eh. Oh and then I hate when she talks about how she isn't special and all of this BS. I really loved Willow as a character, for years when I was younger. I looked up to her and I just found her adorably awesome. It made me sad to hear her talk about herself that way. I didn't even realize how insecure she was until that point. I understand, we all feel inadequate at times, but she's intelligent and sweet and really talented when it comes to magic....but the fact that she thought that she *needed* it just depressed the hell out of me. I didn't dislike her for this, I just wanted to yell, "STOP IT. YOU ARE BEING DUMB, YOU ARE SPECIAL.'' I mean she was helping Buffy fight the forces of evil long before she met Tara, Tara would have loved that girl too!! Sorry, tangent number two.

3. Willow's non-existent redemption. I guess I should dislike EVERYBODY for this...but no one seems to give a damn that Willow killed a man. No, she flayed a man alive. She removed a man's skin, but that's no big whoop. She's still cute ol' Wil. Whereas Spike is disgusting and unforgivable, Angel is the scum of the Earth even though his lack of a soul should be taken into consideration...but good ol' Willow was high when she committed that terrible act, no biggie!! Oh and The Killer in Me is the biggest joke in the history of storytelling and just...the universe. Although this one is mostly the writers fault, it still ticks me off.

I really loved Willow at one point, then I kind of hated her, and now I'm kind of neutral. Grr.

 

[SMG14Fan]

- Anya's "You're not better than us" speech in "Empty Places".
- ^ That goes for everyone else too.
- Xander's "Kick his ass" in "Becoming"
- The gang humiliating Buffy at her welcome home party in "Dead Man's Party".
- Xander leaving Anya at the altar.
- Giles conspiring with Wood to kill Spike.
- Xander automatically pointing the finger at Angel in "Revelations" and his stupid "Can I come?" remark when Faith is going to try to kill Angel.

I'm sure there are more.

 

[Tuppence]

Nobody has mentioned the cruciamentum, the bizarre disabling of the Slayer as presented in "Helpless" and the ridiculous amount of forgiveness shown by Buffy. If someone had drugged me and put me and my family (Joyce was captured here) in danger as Giles did here, the trust fuse would be blown permanently and the person who set me up would be under indictment, in this case for reckless endangerment and administering a noxious substance. Trust is like air bags and flash bulbs - they only work once and when it's over, it's done.

I think the forgiveness came from the fact Giles was clearly reluctant to do it- it was just an ancient rule of the Watchers, a stupid one but still- and he majorly regretted it and when it came down to it he risked everything to help and there's that moment when he stakes Blair in the abandoned house and Giles and Buffy just look at one another- I think it's in that moment that she realised his hand was rather forced and she sees where his true loyalties lie. Also he does get fired for defying the council and showing too much of a fatherly nature to Buffy (and there is the conversation with Travers that Buffy doesn't see:

Giles: Yes. (crosses his arms) Interestingly, I don't give a rat's ass
about the Council's orders. There will be no test.

Quentin: (pours a cup of tea) The test has already begun. Your Slayer
entered the field of play about ten minutes ago.

Giles: (stands up, surprised) Why?

Quentin: I don't know. I returned there just as she entered.

Giles grabs his keys from his desk and starts out of the office. Quentin
tries to stop him.

Quentin: Now Giles, we've no business...

Giles grabs him by the coat and shoves him up against the doorframe.

Giles: This is *not* business!).

 

[Joshua]

Willow:

1. Ignoring Buffy in Dead Man's Party. "Oh Buffy I needed you I was going through stuff so I'm going to completely ignore you and your pain when you come back to town oh and invite tons of people to your house, thus making this whole ignoring you thing easier." I understand why she was upset and hurt but NO ONE took a damn second to consider what Buffy was going through. No one even asked her why she left. I kind of hated them all in that episode, except Giles. Oh and Xander's, "You should have seen what you put her through" was so incredibly stupid. I would have punched him. I seriously would have. He doesn't know a damn thing about their relationship or how it all went down when Buffy left UGHGHGHG sorry going off on a tangent.

2. Taking Dawn to Rack's. I felt sorry for her when she broke down but...eh. Oh and then I hate when she talks about how she isn't special and all of this BS. I really loved Willow as a character, for years when I was younger. I looked up to her and I just found her adorably awesome. It made me sad to hear her talk about herself that way. I didn't even realize how insecure she was until that point. I understand, we all feel inadequate at times, but she's intelligent and sweet and really talented when it comes to magic....but the fact that she thought that she *needed* it just depressed the hell out of me. I didn't dislike her for this, I just wanted to yell, "STOP IT. YOU ARE BEING DUMB, YOU ARE SPECIAL.'' I mean she was helping Buffy fight the forces of evil long before she met Tara, Tara would have loved that girl too!! Sorry, tangent number two.

3. Willow's non-existent redemption. I guess I should dislike EVERYBODY for this...but no one seems to give a damn that Willow killed a man. No, she flayed a man alive. She removed a man's skin, but that's no big whoop. She's still cute ol' Wil. Whereas Spike is disgusting and unforgivable, Angel is the scum of the Earth even though his lack of a soul should be taken into consideration...but good ol' Willow was high when she committed that terrible act, no biggie!! Oh and The Killer in Me is the biggest joke in the history of storytelling and just...the universe. Although this one is mostly the writers fault, it still ticks me off.

I really loved Willow at one point, then I kind of hated her, and now I'm kind of neutral. Grr.

Well to be fair Warren did kill one of the Scooby members and almost killed Buffy. So why would they care? also shouldn't this also apply to Gunn and Fred killing the Professor just because he sent Fred to Pylea a couple years ago?

 

[Robb Stark]

Well to be fair Warren did kill one of the Scooby members and almost killed Buffy. So why would they care? also shouldn't this also apply to Gunn and Fred killing the Professor just because he sent Fred to Pylea a couple years ago?

It should totally apply. Once you just start killing people because you're angry or because you "just don't care", then you're not a hero. You're a murderer. Police and regular people aren't allowed to do that. Why should Willow be the exception?

 

[Kurai]

Oz: Leaving. I know he had his reasons, but he really just threw it on Willow and didn't give her time to deal with it. At least Angel stayed around for a bit before taking off.

 

[Joshua]

It should totally apply. Once you just start killing people because you're angry or because you "just don't care", then you're not a hero. You're a murderer. Police and regular people aren't allowed to do that. Why should Willow be the exception?

um Warren killed the love of Willow's life, yes it's murder but it's also Karma for Warren. Why are we defending an egotistic murdering pig? also why does Angel get the exception? he's still a murderer with or without the soul

 

[Buffy Summers]

If you categorize Angel as a murderer, you need to categorize Willow that way as well. Which I'm okay with lol.

🙂

 

[Robb Stark]

um Warren killed the love of Willow's life, yes it's murder but it's also Karma for Warren. Why are we defending an egotistic murdering pig? also why does Angel get the exception? he's still a murderer with or without the soul

I'm not "defending" Warren, and I'm not saying he didn't "deserve" to die. There's no question that Warren was evil. But good people deal with evil ones every day. That doesn't give them the right to unilaterally execute them. Just using "karma" as an excuse when a guy is tied up and has unconditionally surrendered to you doesn't wash.

I mean, why are Angel and Spike bashed by so many fans then? Why is Faith? Faith killed a number of people, but the one that set her off was by accident, and the guy she staked was working for The Mayor. And yet no one says she should get a pass for it, and rightly so. She went to prison for it (well...for a little while at least...)

 

[Ethan Reigns]

I think the forgiveness came from the fact Giles was clearly reluctant to do it- it was just an ancient rule of the Watchers, a stupid one but still- and he majorly regretted it and when it came down to it he risked everything to help and there's that moment when he stakes Blair in the abandoned house and Giles and Buffy just look at one another- I think it's in that moment that she realised his hand was rather forced and she sees where his true loyalties lie. Also he does get fired for defying the council and showing too much of a fatherly nature to Buffy (and there is the conversation with Travers that Buffy doesn't see:

Giles: Yes. (crosses his arms) Interestingly, I don't give a rat's ass
about the Council's orders. There will be no test.

Quentin: (pours a cup of tea) The test has already begun. Your Slayer
entered the field of play about ten minutes ago.

Giles: (stands up, surprised) Why?

Quentin: I don't know. I returned there just as she entered.

Giles grabs his keys from his desk and starts out of the office. Quentin
tries to stop him.

Quentin: Now Giles, we've no business...

Giles grabs him by the coat and shoves him up against the doorframe.

Giles: This is *not* business!).

He is the one who was trained in all of the aspects of being a Watcher, so he could not claim ignorance. He was also the one who violated her mind by pretending to hypnotize her for one purpose and actually doing it for another - to allow him to administer drugs that would put her at further risk. Really, this is as much of a violation as Willow did to Tara by using magic to blank out arguments where Willow was absolutely in the wrong. There is no need for a double standard here and perhaps Giles' reckless behaviour here spawns Buffy's reckless behaviour later.

Tradition is never an excuse for evil. The fact that watchers had done certain things by tradition is no excuse. Giles is a very learned man. He should know the history of people accepting coercion to do wrong from Biblical stories down to the Nuremburg trials where "I was just following orders" was not accepted as an excuse for war crimes.

The fact that Giles had second thoughts about it is no excuse. If your code of right and wrong permits you to commit crimes, you need another look at your code before you do something.

 

[tec]

Yeah I dont get the Warren defending

Sometimes I wanna smack Xander in the back of the head NCIS style other then that im cool with our heros

 

[Tuppence]

He is the one who was trained in all of the aspects of being a Watcher, so he could not claim ignorance. He was also the one who violated her mind by pretending to hypnotize her for one purpose and actually doing it for another - to allow him to administer drugs that would put her at further risk. Really, this is as much of a violation as Willow did to Tara by using magic to blank out arguments where Willow was absolutely in the wrong. There is no need for a double standard here and perhaps Giles' reckless behaviour here spawns Buffy's reckless behaviour later.

Tradition is never an excuse for evil. The fact that watchers had done certain things by tradition is no excuse. Giles is a very learned man. He should know the history of people accepting coercion to do wrong from Biblical stories down to the Nuremburg trials where "I was just following orders" was not accepted as an excuse for war crimes.

The fact that Giles had second thoughts about it is no excuse. If your code of right and wrong permits you to commit crimes, you need another look at your code before you do something.

I wasn't saying it was an excuse. Giles was wrong initially (as a trained Watcher through the years he would have known about the test and would have seen it as perfectly normal. It's only the fact he knows buffy and has grown close to her, and applying the theory to real life that makes him realise the wrongness. It takes him a while to get to that conclusion, but he still reaches it) but lots of people make mistakes, and we don't hold it against them, if they accept responsibility which Giles does. Also much like someone is raised by parents who state something is wrong (or right) their entire childhood, find it hard to go against this even when they know the parent was incorrect, Giles is the same in that regard as he has basically been indoctrinated as a Watcher and would find it against every instinct to go against that. So the fact he stands up to Travers at all is really a huge thing for him.

As regards having to rethink codes of right and wrong, I don't quite get what you're implying there?

I think we may have gone slightly off-topic haha.

 

[Robb Stark]

Yeah I dont get the Warren defending

Either you chose not to read the above posts and are just ignorant, or you're being intentionally misleading. Either one is irritating.

No has is "defending" Warren. No one has said anything even remotely close to it. Saying Willow doesn't have the right to execute people she's angry with when they are no immediate threat is hardly, HARDLY, the same thing as saying Warren didn't deserve to answer for his crimes. They're not even close.

Stop putting words in people's mouths. It's rude.