Healthiest Relationship

put so it, seem you forget that Joss talks about using the metaphor. You are saying that is not the fault of Spike but Buffy ...and your still was an ideological attack, disguised by "lack of common sense" on the part of the victim.
 
I never said such thing. Why is everything so black and white with you people? Spike is responsible for the rape attempt but this doesn't absolve Buffy's responsibility for her own safety. Look, I don't care that Buffy is a woman. I don't care that women are women. She has a brain and she didn't use it. Sleeping with a vamp? Whatever floats your boat, I guess. Trusting a vamp? Idiocy. I don't understand it, why do you disregard the concept of personal responsibility? Just 'cause Buffy is woman? Not responsible for her mistakes? Like a child? That's just unbelievably sexist.

 
But saying she is "not blameless" in her rape is completely different that saying she doesn't take responsibility for her own safety. She should have been more responsible for her safety but that in no way means that she is partly to blame for her rape as you previously said.
 
I think the important distinction is that Spike isn't a man, so there can't really be a comparison to a real world situation. I do hate the 'blame the victim' mentality that happens a lot in rape cases but that's a seperate issue to this one.

Spike is a demon who happens to inhabit an appealing enough form (I guess) and how did Xander put it; 'I never forgot what he was.'
I think Buffy did forget what Spike was as soon as she found out that Spike could hurt her and, instead of immediatly staking him, she decided to do...kinda the opposite (pretty much ride him like a pony) and bring down a building in the process.

BUT Buffy is hardly in her right mind at this point. This isn't S5 Buffy, this is S6 depressed, numb and a little in love with hurting herself Buffy. I can't exactly blame her for losing perspective a little before the attack.

But the attack should've a giant wakeup call- I can't imagine what went through her head when she decided to entrust Dawn's safety with Spike afterwards. I can only attrbute it to mental shock at seeing Tara's body and knowing that Willow is on a rampage. (Plus the whole 'almost dying again' thing)
Buffy giving Spike the time of day (not to mention letting him live) after what he tried to do to her just baffles me.
 
thetopher said:
BUT Buffy is hardly in her right mind at this point. This isn't S5 Buffy, this is S6 depressed, numb and a little in love with hurting herself Buffy. I can't exactly blame her for losing perspective a little before the attack.
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But the problem is there in S5 as well. And Buffy can't blame it on depression. The guy chained her to a freaking wall and then threatened to let his ex eat her if she didn't confess she had feelings for him. Seriously you don't have to be a genius to figure out that attempted rape might just be the next step. Because if the chip hadn't worked you bet Spike would have gone there in Crush or soon thereafter. And that's not even adding the stalking, sex bot shagging, using current girl friend for role playing and clothes stealing or shrine building.

Who lets someone so deranged walk the streets unstaked? Not just for your own safety but general safety of friends and family and the rest of the town. Why on earth would you let him have an all access pass into your home? Your home which also houses your underaged, virginal sister. For the life of me I can't understand what is going with Buffy, short of permanent brain damage.
 
RomanticSoul said:
Seriously you don't have to be a genius to figure out that attempted rape might just be the next step. Because if the chip hadn't worked you bet Spike would have gone there in Crush or soon thereafter.
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But at the time Spike still was physically incapable of hurting anybody- because of the chip. The physical danger to Buffy in 'Crush' came from Drusilla and Harmony, not Spike. Spike was the instigator of it all- he's a creepy, psycho stalker- but without the other two vamps there he isn't a threat.

I would've happily staked him, but I can see (in a sense) why Buffy wouldn't. He's harmless evil, a threat to no-one, and defenceless against humans, if she was going to kill him it would've been before now- like when he hooked up with Adam.
But by this time Glory had been on the rampage for a while and Spike had helped out with dawn to a degree. So maybe Buffy hedged her bets and let him live because she thought, in the future, it was possible that he might be able to help.

RomanticSoul said:
Who lets someone so deranged walk the streets unstaked? Not just for your own safety but general safety of friends and family and the rest of the town.
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Who's safety? It's not an issue of safety if he can't HURT anybody. And it's not like there aren't any cosequences for his actions- all the Scoobies (including Dawn) shun him afterwards. I'm actually surprised that one of them didn't stake them. Giles or Xander probably, although it would've been fun to watch Dawn do it. The look on Spike's face...😀

RomanticSoul said:
Why on earth would you let him have an all access pass into your home? Your home which also houses your underaged, virginal sister. For the life of me I can't understand what is going with Buffy, short of permanent brain damage.
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'Crush' is the episode where Buffy bars Spike from the house again remember? No 'all access' to family, no more stalking about the house. Spike isn't obsessed with anybody else in town except Buffy and now he's, rightfully, denied access.

Their relationship only changes after 'Intervention' when Buffy realises that Spike's feelings are real...to him.


In an effort to stay on topic I'm leaving it there and no longer talking about Spike. I'm really so very tired of talking about Spike. 🙁

Giles/Olivia- has that been done? It seemed like a nice, casual thing between two mature adults.
 
Yes, let's all leave it here and move back to the topic as Nightshade already asked.

Healthiest relationship? Be it canon or self-imagined.
 
I think Joyce's man in season 5 could have been a good relationship had it lasted
 
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Earlier in this thread, I mentioned Woz, Xanya and the Burkles as canon relationships I thought were the healthiest (to the extent that JW is even capable of depicting any type of normalcy in relationships).

While I stand by my original choices, I'd like to add some others to my previous response (complete with couple mashup names I've just dreamt up because I don't know if they already have fanmade monikers):

Sam & Riley ("Ram"). I realize we didn't see a whole lot of them, so they might barely count, but it did look like Riley had moved on from Buffy in a healthy way. It seemed like Sam and Riley were honest and open with each other (I think Sam implied she was fully aware of Riley's baggage, anyway, and was handling it fine, which is probably a good sign in a relationship). Sam was basically a female version of Riley: looks great on paper, inexplicable military experience, bland personality, tall. They seemed to fit in a way Riley and Buffy never did. I also suspect that JW doesn't really like to show his main characters in healthy relationships because that makes for "boring television," but he is willing to do so for tertiary characters, if only to demonstrate to our dysfunctional heroes that Twue Luv is possible (but not for them).

And some "should've-been" choices:

Cordy & Doyle ("Doylelia"). Let's pretend Doyle had lived. And let's pretend that Cordy becoming half-demon had had nothing to do with the Jasmine arc and they instead wrote this transformation into a half-decent storyline (instead of random glowy and floaty things). Two half-demons working for good? I think they had the potential to complement each other really well, personality-wise and character arc-wise. (I'm basing this off of the way Cordy and Xander's personalities seemed highly complementary, although there were other things--mainly high school immaturity--that disqualify them from the "healthiest relationship" list.)

Fred & Wesley ("Wed"). Because I'm talking about hypotheticals here, I'm taking the liberty to rewind to before Wesley went dark. If Wesley had made a move before Gunn had, I think Fred and Wesley would've worked great as a pair: they were equals on so many levels, and at the same time I think her warmth and compassion would've been an excellent counterpoint to Wesley's love of rules and order (because let's face it, even after he became a Rogue Demon Hunter, he was never really rogue until he kidnapped Connor).
 
Taake
Taake
Ram and Doylelia! lmao!
Kairos said:
Darla and the Master really seemed like they were in a good place in Season 1 tbh.
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Haha, that really puts into perspective how messed up the rest of the casts relationships are.

On topic, I'd say the Burkles without a doubt, as well as Giles/Olivia and Riley/Sam. The rest is all madness.
 
white avenger said:
The closest thing to a "healthy" relationship in the Buffyverse, though short lived and unconsummated, was Giles and Jenny Calendar.

As for an imaginary ship, Spike and Faith in a sloppily romantic, disgustingly sweet, exasperatingly tender high school type first love kind of romance would be, I think, great.

Not to mention, it would drive Buffy running duck insane with jealousy.
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My BFF and I were talking about Spike and Faith once before season 10 came out and Buffy and Spike got back together. I think their dynamic could be really awesome. They would just have so much fun together, but alas I really can't see Spike getting over Buffy any time this century and I can't see Faith being conformable falling for someone who was so entangled in Buffy. Her history with her sister slayer is too complicated.
As for real couples I'd have to agree with the Burkles (also probably the best parents) and while I have read the comics in depth yet from what I understand Dawn/Xander were pretty healthy before her whole emotional reboot thing.
 
thetopher said:
Xander/Dawn- I say these two because their breakup was probably the most amicable/mature we've seen in the Buffyverse and they'll probably get back together. On reflection they make a good pairing despite the addition of Xander's 'anger management' issues that came out of nowhere.
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I wouldn't say his anger issues came out of nowhere. From S1, Xander was portrayed as an angry individual. Just look at the way he argues his point when he's passionate about something. He was raised in a house where you have to yell to be heard. Heck, Entropy shows clearly that Xander desperately needs to be in an anger management class. I wish the whole Dr. Mike storyline was presented in S7 - because Xander did change and mature a lot becoming one of the calmest characters in S7 and S8. Then suddenly reverted to his old angry persona in S9.
 
sosa lola said:
I wouldn't say his anger issues came out of nowhere. From S1, Xander was portrayed as an angry individual. Just look at the way he argues his point when he's passionate about something.
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Well then I'd say that Xander was passionate, emotional- I thought that was the point of his character. He's the emotional one. I never got that to mean anger issues. To me anger issues means violence/lashing out, and Xander never did that. Buffy is quicker to lash out in an argument than Xander is and I wouldn't say that Buffy has anger issues.
And as you say 1 instance in Season 6 is something (and I'm sorry, it was understandable circumstance- seeing somebody you hate having sex with somebody you still love- that's gonna trigger something), but then we have over two years- all of Season 7 and 8- where he's one of the sanest guys in ANY room. He's a pretty together individual and calm/good in a crisis and suddenly in Season 9 he's shouting all the time?
Weak writing. The characteristic, if one would call it that, is forgotten about for a long time and then brought back and emphasized much stronger than it ever was before. It's jarring to say the least.

It's like at the end of Season 9 when the writers suddenly remember that at one time (Season 5) Spike used to care about Dawn so they have him rushing back to be with her when she's disappearing.
 
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