How to Watch Season 7

nerd4hire said:
I'm not sure I understand. Are you asking, "why wasn't Giles informed about Nikki Wood's son?" or why didn't Giles figure out that PW was her son before Wood told him he was raised by a watcher?

Because I think Giles did know Nikki Woods had a son. I have to watch it again to see if there's something hidden in the nuances of the actors that contradicts that, but the text seems to suggest Giles knew Nikki had a son.

The information was buried in the clutter of trivial information that was the brain of Giles though. He just didn't make the connection until Wood presented the pieces that needed to be put together. That's the way I saw it, anyway.
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This is exactly how I thought it too. I didn't think for one second Giles didn't know Nikki had a son. In fact..you can see on his face when he makes the connection...NYC slayer, had a son, would be about 30 some odd years old....then he looks back at Principle Wood and cha-ching!
 
It isn't out of character for Giles to be a little slow connecting the dots either.

In Something Blue, Willow tells him she was trying to do a spell to have her will done. She also tells him "he doesn't see anything". Later he goes blind, but he doesn't get the connection between Willow's statements and his condition until Xander clues him in that all the problems in that episode may have something to do with Willow.
 
What I meant more about Giles and Wood was more...Ok...Wood was raised by a Watcher and his mother was the Slayer...so with all his knowledge about the Council and the slayer line, why didn't the council keep better tabs on him? Plus he never passed on that bag he kept from his mother.
 
Cordelia said:
What I meant more about Giles and Wood was more...Ok...Wood was raised by a Watcher and his mother was the Slayer...so with all his knowledge about the Council and the slayer line, why didn't the council keep better tabs on him? Plus he never passed on that bag he kept from his mother.
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I'm wondering if that's an issue exclusive to Season 7 though.

The council has lost influence over it's slayers and watchers before. Buffy doesn't appear to have had any contact with them, nor do they even seem interested in her between Graduation and Checkpoint. I don't get the impression the council kept tabs on Giles or Wesley after they were fired.

As far as the bag goes; Buffy could have kept a bag of stuff too if she'd wanted to, and the Council wouldn't have known anything about it, unless she chose to tell them.

So why didn't, Nikki, Crowley, or Principal Wood tell the council about the bag? I'd just say they didn't want to. Knowing what you do about the Watcher's Council, would you tell them more than you had to?

Edit: Wait a minute. I think I'm getting your point. Does it say in Get it Done that the bag was meant to be handed down. Hang on. I'll look it up.
 
Yeaht...that's why I was asking....Buffy should have gotten it from India and India from her predecessor and so on back until Nikki Wood.
 
Well small technicality first. India is from the Books right? Joss doesn't read the books. They're not Whedonverse canon.

Doesn't matter though, it turns out you're correct. Here's the passage:

Principal Wood reaches down under Buffy's desk and pulls up a large leather duffel bag, setting it on her desk with a clunk.

BUFFY
What is it?

PRINCIPAL WOOD
An emergency kit. This bag belonged to my mother.

BUFFY
A slayer keepsake. I-I couldn't.

PRINCIPAL WOOD
Well, you have to. Technically, it should have been passed down directly to you through the years, but after my mother died... I guess I just couldn't part with it.

Wood does answer your question for you though.

Why doesn't he pass the bag on like he was supposed to? He just couldn't part with it.

So why didn't the council insist on it? Again BTVS in general seems to suggest the Council doesn't have a lot of influence on Watcher's, Slayers, or I would assume Slayer's sons unless both sides agree to work together.
 
The council just doesn't seem to prove that useful at all. They came to Buffy's aid only one time in all 7 years of the show. Other than that they just as she said, try to impart meaning to their lives/jobs.

Also, India is mentioned in the Tales of the Slayer books (Vol. 3 or 4). Weren't these books given the Joss Seal of Approval?
 
I think that the council seems to be used more as a resource by Watchers on an as-needed basis. That's the impression I've gotten over the years anyways. I.E. Glory, and in Season 7 when they want to contact them for info on the first, and Giles tells them it's destroyed.
 
Epo-Just to let you know, I heard the same thing in the Chosen DVD-the Uber-vamps aren't all as tough as the first one because storyline wise, it would suck! LOL
 
Slayer said:
We still do not know how the line jumped from Faith to Buffy once again, which is one of the biggest things about the series for me. Even though this might not have occured in Season 7, I still think it should have been addressed.
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Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you question is, but I thought Faith as slayer was fairly well explained. Faith was called when Kendra died. As far as true slayer goes, I would argue that she is the true slayer. Buffy died, Kendra was called, Kendra died, Faith was called. Buffy dies a second time, no one is called. No one is called bacuse she is no longer the true slayer. I disagree that her strength and skill is proof that she is the true slayer. Another explanation is simply that she has been doing it longer, and has trained more. Keep in mind that Faith was in prision for some time.
 
Oh no here it comes again......Someone really should keep tally.



Anyhoo I've always understood season 7. It was the BEST imo followed up closely by season 5. It's so funny that so many "fans" act as if in season 7 they made buffy into a circus clown who fights vampires with pies or something.
 
C
Cordelia
LOL...circus clown..funny, but seriously Season 7 is the best IMHO too.
BocaDelInfierno said:
Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you question is, but I thought Faith as slayer was fairly well explained.
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BocaDelInfierno; I believe what Prophecy Girl is referring to in the last post is the fact this particular issue has been debated many times here, most recently and probably most decisively on these 2 threads:

https://www.buffy-boards.com/showthread.php?t=18906&highlight=chosen

and

https://www.buffy-boards.com/showthread.php?t=18938&highlight=chosen

Basically as I understand it there are two sides to the arguement. The first one says, - "only what was said in the series and by the crew before Season 6 matters".

The second side says you have to believe Season 7 means what it says just as Joss Whedon says you should when he calls it "didactic in it's clarity". Season 7 says after being mystically brought back from the dead in Bargaining the slayer line is altered and now passes at least through Buffy and possibly through Faith as well. There are some variations to that arguement, but basically it goes something like that. My opinion is this side of the arguement has won in every of the dozen or so debates we've had on it. But if you want to try your hand at it. Feel free. Open another thread on the subject, and I, at least, will drop by to discuss it with you.


Cordelia; I used to get confused with that too. There's a Tales of the Slayer, and a Tales of the Slayer(s).

One is an anthology of different writers such as Chris Golden and Nancy Holder who are writing stories based on BTVS. The other is a Graphic Anthology overseen by Joss Whedon.

Here's links to both:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0689864361/103-3931866-3183036?v=glance

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...5/103-3931866-3183036?_encoding=UTF8&v=glance
 
B
BocaDelInfierno
Thanks, I guess I have a lot of catching up to do, I see your point, but there still seems to be something lacking, the wheels are turning...
Cordelia said:
It's funny...Tales of the Slayer Vol. 2 and 4 are credited to Joss Whedon on Amazon...
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Is this the cover of Vol.2 here:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/im...31866-3183036?_encoding=UTF8&n=283155&s=books

This looks like the cover of Vol.4

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/im...31866-3183036?_encoding=UTF8&n=283155&s=books

I can't read what it says at the bottom of Vol. 2. Is Joss Whedon's name anywhere on it. To me if he was endorsing the contents of the book his name would be on the cover. Whedon writers Jane Espenson and Rebecca Kirshner do have stories in it though

I think rather than hi-jack my own thread on this subject here though, I'll do some research and post a thread on the subject in the Whedonverse forum.
 
Very interesting topic, I agree. After having just rewatched it on DVD it all makes more sense looking at it that way. And there are so many eye references to Xander (he's the one who sees etc) that it wasn't surprising.
 
Season 7 really isn't as bad as I (and a lot of other people) first thought it was. There are a few things that bug me, but they're mainly continuity errors that aren't actually as big as I'd previously thought they were. Also, a lot of the things that I've seen people complain about really aren't things we need to know the answers to, such as why Annabelle ran away or why Chloe hanged herself. If you want to find your own explanation, go ahead and do so; it's not really important to the storyline that these things are explained, so Joss doesn't bother to.

Another thing I've seen people complain about is that some of the characters act out-of-character. After having watched the season, I've come to the conclusion that the behavior of specific characters in Season 7 ties back to some of the themes explored in Season 3. Confused? I'll explain.

In Season 3, Buffy and Giles rebel against the authority of the Watcher's Council and its 'out-of-touch' way of fighting demons (using the Slayer and Watchers as instruments). Ironically, both Buffy and Giles' behavior in Season 7 echoes the behavior of the Watcher's Council, as they both become so caught up in the mission that they forget to treat those they're working with as human beings. It takes Spike to make Buffy realize this, but we're not shown how/when Giles realizes this; you can infer that he does from his behavior in "Empty Places" through "Chosen", but it's one of those things that Joss doesn't need to explain.

Granted, Season 7 isn't as good as the two seasons that precede it, but it's not bad by any means (never thought I'd say that, but it's the truth).
 
I have to tell you I'm a gigantic fan of Season 7. It's moved up to take the # 1 spot on my personal list of favourite seasons. I like it, because it's so rewatchable. I find the more I watch it, the more I take away from it. Well, all Buffy is like that, isn't it? But for me, Season 7 moreso.

As much as I like S-7 though, I have to tell you there are things in it, particularly in the Drew Z Greenberg penned episodes, that even I can't find an excuse for.

I think the central theory of this thread was if you take Joss at his word when he tells you things are exactly the way the writers say they are in the season, then look for an explanation, you can usually find one.

I'm not sure this is true with the the DZG eps such as Him, and Empty Places.

In Empty Places for example I think there's good reason for viewers to complain about "out of character" presentation.

In the beginning of the episode at the hospital, Xander appears to be pro-buffy, at the end he's turned a 360, with no real clues as to why that would happen in that time space. How can Dawn kick Buffy out of her own house, when Buffy sets the rules, has never shown any inclination to bend to Dawn's will, and there's no hints as to why she would in this case?

I have this theory about Drew Z Greenberg. He seems to appear during those periods of time when Joss is busy elsewhere, and Marti Noxon takes charge. I think he was Marti Noxon's pet. As I heard it, he wasn't supposed to write Empty Places, which takes position in the key final 5 arc. Originally it was supposed to go to one of the better writers.

So the way I handle the whole Drew Z Greenberg element of Season 7 in my own mind, is I don't apply the theory of believe what you see in Season 7, to any episode written by him. Basically I just write those eps off.

On the other hand, if you should happen to be a DZG fan, and everything he says makes sense to you, that's cool too. You've found your own way.
 
Yeah I completely agree with you about the whole Empty Places thing.

But I liked HIM!!! I thought that episode was hilarious. The girls trying to prove their love for RJ had me in stitches. And I like how it stuck with the "theme" of the season - of going back to the beginning because it's so reminiscent of Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered.
 
Jacklyn said:
Epo-Just to let you know, I heard the same thing in the Chosen DVD-the Uber-vamps aren't all as tough as the first one because storyline wise, it would suck! LOL
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Ah, good, I wasn't sure I remembering correctly since no-one else seemed to remember that, hehe, thanks Jacklyn.

I do agree about Drew Z Greenberg, and definetly about Empty Places.. that's one of the things that doed not make sense to me. Most other things i season 7 makes sense. I don't like it very much, I don't like where it has taken the characters, the way they have become, but I understand how it happened and it makes sense (unfortunetly)..
 
I think the key to understanding "Empty Places" is to realize that there's stuff going on in that ep that we're never shown. Like I said in my earlier post, this ep echoes stuff that happens way back in Season 3. A lot of the characters' behavior in "Empty Places" is basically a front; they're trying their best to convince themselves (and everyone else around them) that Buffy knows what she's doing, but at some point (which we're not shown and which I don't think we NEED to be shown), they drop the pretenses and let the punches fly unchecked, so to speak. I will concede that kicking Buffy out of her own house was a bit drastic, but it was really the only choice they had, as there was practically nowhere else for any of them to go (Xander's apartment couldn't have housed them all, and the Magic Box was rubble). Buffy needed to have her authority challenged in order for her to realize what other characters had already figured out: in trying to be the Slayer she needed to, she'd become dangerously close to turning into the type of authority figure that she herself once rebelled against (the old Council), and it took being kicked out of her own home (and later Spike's words to her in "Touched") to make her realize what was going on and bring back shades of the old Buffy.
 
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