If Buffy dies another is called! WRONG!
- Thread starter Emma Caulfield
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eponinethen
Majk
I know you didn't say that. But if we are told that Faith is the Real Slayer, and then we are told something has changed.. And then we are told, in many different ways, that Buffy has to die for another slayer to be called... I don't know why we would be told these things so many times if not to connect them, if that really wasn't the thing that had changed, why did they make it sound like that...? Just to confuse us..? (I'm not saying you're wrong though, I'd love to find out Faith is the real slayer, right now that's just not the most logical answer to me...)
Slayer said:
And the award for the single most immature thing i've read on a posting board in a long while goes to ...
This is about proving me wrong huh? Well newsflash, not my opinion so you aren't proving me wrong, you are proving David Fury, or whoever it was that said this, wrong.
You know what i think? I think you guys really have discussed this so often that you are putting your own theories before anything else you might hear, simply because you prefer them.
Sorry but, whether you like it or not, you are so wrong. The slayer line, prior to Chosen went through Faith and only Faith. Not Buffy. She had her turn.
What Beljoxa's Eye said could have meant absolutely anything but if we are basing theory just on script evidence i don't see how you can take it to mean that Buffy was once again the active slayer. It certainly never specified that.
As for what The First said, who ever said it was an expert on Slayer lore? It clearly wasn't omnipotent, therefore what makes you think it was anymore informed about the slayer line than anyone else. It took advantage of the changes brought on by Buffy's resurrection, no one ever said it understood it. Did The First really come across to anyone here as being an evil mastermind? Certainly didn't to me!
Look, bottom line is i know i'm right, simple as that, so ever single one of the things you all put forward here, whilst interesting, is wrong and i know it!
Just for the sake of argument though ...
So if The First knows all then why no mention of Faith? Even if Buffy's death could activate a new slayer at that point she certainly wasn't the only one who could. Faith could. So why did the above quote not mention that? Why didn't The First go into the specifics of the situation?
Because it would over complicate the script and the issues that the season was dealing with. Exactly what the writers were trying to avoid by not explaining the Faith situation earlier on at every point needed.
You are all confusing the writers attempts to make the situation a little easier to understand with bigger meaning to the mythology. Stop reading too much into words that don't suggest what you think they do. As brilliant as the show is, not everything has to have hidden meaning.
Willow Rosenberg
I might be just like you!
Pagan said:
And the single most arrogant thing I've ever read on a message board is...
You haven't proven anything to anyone here on this thread except that you think you're superior to everyone here and that you claim to always be right. No one is always right - its part of being human. Deal.
Also you question why there was no mention of Faith in Caleb/The First's speech to Buffy...could it be that it was talking to Buffy and not Faith? And that it recognizes the power that Buffy is the more powerful and dangerous threat to him? Faith, strong as she may be, isn't really a strategist in the way that Buffy is. She does what she's told to save the day and she can be easily manipulated due to her naivity. I like the girl, don't get me wrong, but she just doesn't pose the threat that Buffy does.
nerd4hire
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Pagan said:
Beljoxa's eye did when it said The First chose that particular time to attack, because of a disruption in the slayer line. This suggests The First knows about stuff like that.
As Eponinethen says though, it isn't just one or even two characters in S-7 that appear to believe Buffy is The Slayer.
Every character throughout S-7 consistently either says outright or implies that Buffy holds the entire power of the slayer and all that implies:
The Shadowmen - Get it Done
Beljoxa's Eye - Showtime
The First Evil - Chosen
The Guardian - End of Days
Buffy - I forget the episode. The one where she's talking to the potential's in the basement
Anya - Showtime and Potential
Xander and Willow - Potential
Giles - Showtime (and throughout the season he consistently refers to her as The Slayer
Faith - End of Days
Now if the writers don't think Buffy holds the entire power of the slayer why do they keep telling us she does? In order to believe nothing has changed in S-7 I'd have to believe they're all bad writers, and I refuse to believe that.
Here's another thing. For those of us who accept what the writers tell us when they tell us there has been "a disruption in the slayer line", and the slayer line now passes at least through Buffy, and possibly Faith as well, Season 7 now makes sense. We know what the "disruption in the slayer line" is that Beljoxa's eye speaks of. We have information to draw a conclusion as to why the First would choose that particular moment to attack. If you choose to disbelieve what Season 7 tells you, how do you make sense of it?
Here's another thing Season 7 tells us. In Chosen it tells us definitely, and without equivocation that the slayer line can be transfered to slayers through methods other than the death of Faith when multiple slayers are created through the scythe.
So if you say you read an interview with a writer after Season 7 began that said under no conditions could the slayer line pass by any means other than the death of Faith in Season 7, that writer is either lying, misinformed, or believe it or not you yourself are misinterpreting.
eponinethen
Majk
Um, first of all, I don't like my theory at all, I changed my theory only a month ago, I am open to changing it again, as I said, it's just the theory I find most logical at the moment, you are welcome to prove me wrong and convince me to believe in something else (you haven't yet though).
Maybe the First isn't an expert on slayers but, since it's most important enemy is The Slayer I think it should know who that is. I really do think the first knows that, it's not a person that has to be told everything to know it, I think it just knows who The Slayer is.
I know what Beljoxa's Eye said could mean anything, bu it had to do with the slayer line and what I'm asking is why people would say over and over again (during season 7) that Buffy has to die for another slayer to be called, if that wasn't true..? (I used to think it was just a mistake, them saying that, but I don't anymore..)
Well, it's good you know that you're right, but if that's gonna sound less immature, you just gotta convince us too (looks like you're trying so)...
I agree that everything doesn't have a hidden meaning, it doesn't need that, I wouldn't mind if this thing was really simple and obvious, but to me it isn't, not right now at least...
Maybe the First isn't an expert on slayers but, since it's most important enemy is The Slayer I think it should know who that is. I really do think the first knows that, it's not a person that has to be told everything to know it, I think it just knows who The Slayer is.
I know what Beljoxa's Eye said could mean anything, bu it had to do with the slayer line and what I'm asking is why people would say over and over again (during season 7) that Buffy has to die for another slayer to be called, if that wasn't true..? (I used to think it was just a mistake, them saying that, but I don't anymore..)
Well, it's good you know that you're right, but if that's gonna sound less immature, you just gotta convince us too (looks like you're trying so)...
I agree that everything doesn't have a hidden meaning, it doesn't need that, I wouldn't mind if this thing was really simple and obvious, but to me it isn't, not right now at least...
cordelia, you're missing the point, it isn't about who is stronger or who is more dominant, it is about through whom runs the slayer line. these are two different cases.
as for always right - nobody used the word always. i think everyone who brings an argument in a debate thinks himself to be right until proven wrong (which as far as i'm concerned at least, he hasn't been).
as for always right - nobody used the word always. i think everyone who brings an argument in a debate thinks himself to be right until proven wrong (which as far as i'm concerned at least, he hasn't been).
Willow Rosenberg
I might be just like you!
Wicca - Pagan stated in his post about why the First/Caleb didn't talk about Faith, I was merely bringing up suggestions. It was relevant in response to the post.
Pagan said:
eponinethen
Majk
Um, well, not saying he has been. It's quite impossible (or at lest really hard) to prove anything when it comes to this. And well, I didn't say always either...Wicca said:
nerd4hire said:
Well, let's repeat myself again shall i, just for fun this time!
Buffy, Giles, Anya, Xander, Willow: None of them in any position to know and all bound to refer to Buffy as The Slayer!
Beljoxa's Eye: Said nothing relating to this topic other than a reference to the liine being altered, whatever that might actually mean.
The Guardian: Referred to Buffy as the slayer, naturally, but i don't seem to remember any mention of her death activating the next slayer.
The First: Took advantage of something that there is no proof he really understood. All we know is it gave him the chance to carry out his plan, doesn't mean he understood exactly why. You can use a computer without actually understanding what makes it all work.
Again, with everything else you posted, you are worying too much about the details, looking for every single comment to make sense. It's a tv show, sometimes things are written to make the viewer understand easier. Or do you think that in real life Gunn would have had to mention his "Brain Upload" to the Fang Gang every single episode of early season 5 of Angel? No, it was done for the benefit of the viewers to help them understand.
That doesn't make them bad writers, it makes them realistic ones who realised that if they had any hope of keeping the attention of the new UPN viewers they couldn't delve too deeply into past continuity. If they are guilty of anything, it's dumbing down for the less informed. I find it amusing that you would call the writer in question (or me for that matter) a liar or misinformed simply because it spoils you airtight theories. Well sorry, don't let a little thing like the truth get in the way of your anal attitude to minute details!
Will somebody please explain to me why i'm continuing to justify myself here when i have no good reason to? I know i'm right here! From now on you are on your own kiddies. If you want to spend time coming up with theories to explain away a simple writing decision to clarify an overly complicated storyline then go ahead, live it up!
nerd4hire
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Cordelia said:
Also this suggests an interesting point that hasn't been brought up yet.
If Faith is the true Slayer with all that implies, and there has been a disruption in the slayer line which The First is aware of and attempting to exploit through The Slayer, why is it concentrating all of it's efforts on Buffy?
Cordelia said:
Always right? Perhaps not! been known to get a few questions wrong on the Weakest Link.
Right about this? Most definately. 🙂
Superior? Arrogant? Nice to see you are getting to know me! 😉
nerd4hire said:
Because Buffy was the guardian of the Hellmouth and because, as far as he knew, Faith was out of the way and wouldn't be around to stop his plan.
Besides, The First did attempt to get rid of Faith.
eponinethen
Majk
Exactly, that's what I'm trying to say, sometimes the writers have characters saying things over and over again to make us understand. That is also, imo, why so many characters keep mentioning Buffy having to die to activate another slayer.Pagan said:
Willow Rosenberg
I might be just like you!
Pagan said:
Yes he made an attempt to kill her while she was in prison while the rest of the potentials were still alive. If she activated a new slayer, then wouldn't one of them be activated, thus making their two slayers once again?
I see holes 🙂
eponinethen
Majk
I agree with Cordelia, cause the first was killing all the potentials first, before killing the actual slayer (who would activate another slayer), so that no knew slayer would be activated. So why would the first want to kill Faith before the potentials..?
Cordelia said:
And i see somebody not reading my posts properly!
Didn't i just say several times that i don't believe the First truly understood what was going on with the slayer line? Therefore he may not have given a thought to what Faith's death would bring about.
eponinethen
Majk
Ah, ok, Pagan, I get what you're saying, still don't agree but, sorry about me agreeing with Cordelia (which I still do but I realize you didn't argue against that thing)...
Willow Rosenberg
I might be just like you!
Key words being "You don't believe"
If The First didn't know what it was doing, then why was Buffy spared when she could easily have been killed by Caleb?
If The First didn't know what it was doing, then why was Buffy spared when she could easily have been killed by Caleb?
eponinethen
Majk
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