If Buffy dies another is called! WRONG!

[Wicca]

The Shadowmen - Get it Done
Beljoxa's Eye - Showtime
The First Evil - Chosen
The Guardian - End of Days
Buffy - I forget the episode. The one where she's talking to the potential's in the basement
Anya - Showtime and Potential
Xander and Willow - Potential
Giles - Showtime (and throughout the season he consistently refers to her as The Slayer
Faith - End of Days

ok, we're gonna do this one by one then.

showtime:
GILES
It's not because she died. The Beljoxa's Eye was quite clear about that in its enigmatic way. It's because she lives. Again. Buffy's not responsible for that.

so here we are given to understand buffy's death caused problems with the slayer line. okay, and i never denied that. are we given to understand the line runs through her? no.

------------------

get it done:
BROWN HAT SHADOW MAN
SUBTITLE: It must become one with you.

BUFFY
No! (struggles against her chains)

RED HAT SHADOW MAN
SUBTITLE: This will make you ready for the fight.

BUFFY
By making me less human?

RED HAT SHADOW MAN
SUBTITLE: This is how it was then. How it must be now.

here we get an example that proves my poing regarding the first's attempt to intimidate buffy into giving into her worst fear of having everything human and all hope stripped from her and remaining nothing but the slayer. that's what the shadow men want to do to her now because they think it's the only way she can win. the first taunting in "chosen", by the way, brings us back to this scene as well.

------------

chosen:
CALEB/FIRST
(rolls eyes) Then why aren't you asleep in your dead lover's arms? (looks over at Spike) 'Cause he can't help you. Nor Faith, nor your friends, certainly not your wanna-slay brigade. None of those girlies will ever know real power unless you're dead. You know the drill: (morphs into Buffy's form)

BUFFY/FIRST
Into every generation, a slayer is born. One girl in all the world. She alone will have the strength and skill to"” There's that word again. What you are. How you'll die. Alone. Where's your snappy comeback?

already replied to that in a previous post, but here's a shorter version: the first attempts to intimidate buffy, to make her doubt herself and the fact she "should have taken the power", that her humanity won't win this fight, only a slayer will, so he keeps repeating she is no more than a slayer - *alone*.

-------------------

end of days:
WOMAN
(admires the scythe) A weapon. A scythe. Forged in secrecy for one like you who"” I'm sorry. What's your name?

"for one like you". it could have been faith standing there wit hte scythe, couldn't it?
either way i believe that the fact buffy was the one who got the scythe proves once more she is in fact the dominant slayer, which i never argued about because she is. does that mean the line runs through her as well? not in the least.

-------------------

potential:
WILLOW
A slayer. Makes sense, I guess. Remember that thing about they share the same blood or whatever?

ANYA
(shrugs) Yeah, I never got that.

DAWN
She has to die. (sits on a chair) I mean, if I was ever the slayer, it would mean she died.

am i the only one hearing the doubt and confusion in this conversation? they are trying to come up with explanations and excuses to something they don't understand.
but that aside - it's been firmly established the slayer line does *not* run through bloodline. it is not the same (unless of course the milions of slayers worldwide are all related). dawn is not potential *because* slayer line and bloodline are two different things. which once more proves the guys were randomly bringing up assumptions.

------------------

end of days

BUFFY
It belongs to the slayer. (picks up the scythe)

FAITH
Slayer in charge, which, I'm guessing, is you.

BUFFY
(sits on the edge of the bed) I honestly don't know. Does it matter?

buffy herself says she does not know who is in charge and that conversation has nothing to do with the slayer line at all!
one thing you should notice though: it's one thing when she says the line runs through her to intimidate potentials into courage and a completely other thing when she admits she's *confused* during a private and open conversation with faith. look into it.


so, any more scripts you want me to read? go ahead, i have all night 🙂
oh and by the way, when you do that, remember the quotes should relate to explaining the *slayer line*, not answering the question "who is the dominant slayer?"

 

[Pagan]

Key words being "You don't believe"

If The First didn't know what it was doing, then why was Buffy spared when she could easily have been killed by Caleb?

***BIG sigh!*** For the exact same reason!

The First clearly was under the impression that Buffy was The Slayer, the one who the line continued through, he said so several times as has been pointed out ... several times!

Doesn't mean he was right though. Doesn't mean he was well enough informed to make that call.

And Epo, you won't hear me complain if you agree with Cordelia, everyone is entitled to say what they think. 😉

 

[nerd4hire]

Because Buffy was the guardian of the Hellmouth and because, as far as he knew, Faith was out of the way and wouldn't be around to stop his plan.

Besides, The First did attempt to get rid of Faith.

True. It did try to kill Faith. It something even more important with Buffy as far Season 7 goes. It chose to let her live. Remember when it told the Ubie, "Kill them all. Except her." It also wanted Spike to live. Spike had nothing to with Faith, but he did with Buffy. The First's plan whatever it was centers around Buffy. Why? It's trying to exploit a disruption in the slayer line.

What does being the guardian of the Hellmouth have to do with a disruption in the slayer line.

 

[Willow Rosenberg]

I know what he means. And I don't for one second think this being who obviously had so much knowledge about the world they lived in didn't know squat about the slayerline.

 

[Pagan]

He means that the first believed that Buffy was The Chosen One... but really it was faith..

Thank you, somebody get's it!!! 😀

I know what he means. And I don't for one second think this being who obviously had so much knowledge about the world they lived in didn't know squat about the slayerline.

I'm sorry but did you watch season seven? For an eternal evil The First was an idiot! Adam was more organised and informed than The First was!

 

[eponinethen]

Wicca - I agree, they aren't that clear, it doesn't really say and none of the characters know for sure. But that's not the thing! The thing is that Joss and the other writers let them say over and over again that Buffy is the slayer who the line goes through, they must do that for a reason, imo.

 

[Willow Rosenberg]

Yeah I watched Season 7 and I disagree with your comments. Why don't you tell me how you believe The First was an Idiot? 🙂

 

[Wicca]

i'll have to agree lmao. for such a big bad, it was pretty lame. if it knew so much, didn't it know how they were going to defeat it, or maybe it *let* itself be ambushed by wannabe-slayers? lmao

 

[Pagan]

True. It did try to kill Faith. It something even more important with Buffy as far Season 7 goes. It chose to let her live. Remember when it told the Ubie, "Kill them all. Except her." It also wanted Spike to live. Spike had nothing to with Faith, but he did with Buffy. The First's plan whatever it was centers around Buffy. Why? It's trying to exploit a disruption in the slayer line.

What does being the guardian of the Hellmouth have to do with a disruption in the slayer line.

It just me or have you just proven my point there?

Like i just explained to Cordelia, i don't think for one second that the First was that well informed. So anything it did has to be given a big question mark as to motivation.

Ultimately though, it focused on Buffy because she was the one he considered important, that doesn't mean she was the one who's death was going to activate the next slayer though, just meant the First assumed she was.

Yeah I watched Season 7 and I disagree with your comments. Why don't you tell me how you believe The First was an Idiot? 🙂

Okay, we are talking about The First Evil right? The source of all the evil in the world? Been around since the dawn of time?

And that was the best plan he could come up with? I swear i could have come up with a better plan in my sleep if i had it's resources. Nothing it did made sense, nothing it set in motion worked towards it's best interests. It could have easily defeated the Scoobies if it had any intelligence whatsoever.

Now for a vamp, or a demon, or even a hellgod, making mistakes is acceptable. For the origin of all evil? Well i expected more!

 

[Willow Rosenberg]

i'll have to agree lmao. for such a big bad, it was pretty lame. if it knew so much, didn't it know how they were going to defeat it, or maybe it *let* itself be ambushed by wannabe-slayers? lmao

In wartime, a General can study previous strategic moves made by his opponent. He can learn all he can about the situations surrounding his opponent and hell he can even infiltrate them with a spy and learn further information. But in the end, the thing that makes us human is our free will and our ability to choose our destinys. Buffy made her choice the night before the big battle, she went against what she had always done - waited to be attacked - and seized.

 

[eponinethen]

Ok, I like the theory about Faith being the "real" slayer, that's what I have always wanted to believe. And as I said I could be able to change my opinion. But, I still don't think you have given me a reason why they kept mentioning Buffy being the one who has to die, in season 7, that's my only real question right now. And I don't buy that the characters didn't know any better, cause it was Joss and the other writers (though I'm pretty sure Joss knew what they were writing, or read through it) who wrote the characters...

 

[Wicca]

In wartime, a General can study previous strategic moves made by his opponent. He can learn all he can about the situations surrounding his opponent and hell he can even infiltrate them with a spy and learn further information. But in the end, the thing that makes us human is our free will and our ability to choose our destinys. Buffy made her choice the night before the big battle, she went against what she had always done - waited to be attacked - and seized.

and what exactly did that have to do with what i said?

 

[Pagan]

Ok, I like the theory about Faith being the "real" slayer, that's what I have always wanted to believe. And as I said I could be able to change my opinion. But, I still don't think you have given me a reason why they kept mentioning Buffy being the one who has to die, in season 7, that's my only real question right now. And I don't buy that the characters didn't know any better, cause it was Joss and the other writers (though I'm pretty sure Joss knew what they were writing, or read through it) who wrote the characters...

Epo, the characters had no possible way of knowing despite the fact that the writers had made this choice. What test could they possibly have done to prove this other than to purposely kill both Buffy and faith and see which one activated a new slayer?

There had never been a situation before with two slayer co-existing so as far as anyone within that reality knew Buffy's death may actually still bring a new slayer into the world.

The only evidence we have at all is that no new slayer was called after she died in The Gift. So if it's evidence you want that Faith was the active slayer before Chosen then that is all you get.

However just because there was no realistic way for the characters to have known the "real" situation, the writers, and Joss especially, did know. As far as they were concerned no new slayer was called with either of Buffy's deaths after Prophecy Girl. That is good enough for me.

 

[Wicca]

Ok, I like the theory about Faith being the "real" slayer, that's what I have always wanted to believe. And as I said I could be able to change my opinion. But, I still don't think you have given me a reason why they kept mentioning Buffy being the one who has to die, in season 7, that's my only real question right now. And I don't buy that the characters didn't know any better, cause it was Joss and the other writers (though I'm pretty sure Joss knew what they were writing, or read through it) who wrote the characters...

true. but there was not a single certain statement that buffy *is* indeed the slayer through whom the line runs, not one. everything that was said was either indirectly, either to "suggest" it was so, or like in willow and xander's case - a mere guess. that was not established as fact.
what season 7 and all of this does come to show is that buffy is the superior slayer, she is the dominant slayer, *the* slayer. but it does not state that anything was changed so that the line would run through her again. superior slayer and line-carrying slayer do not have to be the same one, certainly not when there are 2.

 

[nerd4hire]

Ok, I think I'm starting to figure out your theory. I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong.

Giles, Buffy, Faith, The Scoobs, the potentials and The First all believe that the slayer line passes through Buffy, but they're all wrong.

We have no idea what the disruption in the slayer line is, nor should we concern ourselves with it.

Giles and Anya are incorrect when they assume Beljoxa's Eye is talking about Buffy when it mentions The Slayer.

We are meant to ignore the fact that we now know from Chosen that the slayer line can be passed on through methods other than the death of Faith.

The writers don't think there's any reason we would want or need to know all this.

We're required to accept all this based on the grounds that you said it.

Is that about it?

Oh and one more thing. We're meant to believe that these are the more reasonable conclusions, right?

 

[Pagan]

Ok, I think I'm starting to figure out your theory. I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong.

Giles, Buffy, Faith, The Scoobs, the potentials and The First all believe that the slayer line passes through Buffy, but they're all wrong.

We have no idea what the disruption in the slayer line is, nor should we concern ourselves with it.

Giles and Anya are incorrect when the assume Beljoxa's Eye is talking about Buffy when it mentions The Slayer.

We are meant to ignore the fact that we now know from Chosen that the slayer line can be passed on through methods other than the death of Faith.

The writers don't think there's any reason we would want or need to know all this.

We're required to accept all this based on the grounds that you said it.

Is that about it?

Oh and one more thing. We're meant to believe that these are the more reasonable conclusions, right?

Uhuh! 🙂

Firstly i said that the Scoobies and everyone else had no way of knowing if Buffy was the active slayer or not, all they were doin is assuming.

Secondly, there is no point in worrying about what the disruption in the slayer line was because we will never know unless Joss clarifies it officially in the future.

Thirdly, i never said that Beljoxa's Eye wasn't talking about Buffy, i said he never once said anything about her death now activating a new slayer.

Fourthly, the method that was used to activate all the slayers in Chosen was not only unique but had never even been considered before. it has no bearing on this whatsoever.

Fifthly, the writers, and i've already said this, were assuming that we would use a little common sense. If you knew the whole story then you didn't need it mentioned every ten seconds, if you didn't then the season seven storyline was simplified massively by avoiding the topic in too much detail.

Look the bottom line is that you are choosing to misinterpret everything i'm saying.

Just read my reply to Epo above and get back to me.

 

[eponinethen]

Ner4hire, I gotta agree although you might be a little too sarcastic, or whatever. I get the theory, I do understand how it would work, I just don't see how you see this as the most logical explanation.

Ahh, Pagan and Wicca - I agree that the characters shouldn't be able to know, maybe they didn't know, but I still think the writers wouldn't have them say that withut a reason. I agree all of them didn't really say the line goes through Buffy, and it wouldn't be very much btvs-y to say tell us things like that just like that. They said it just enough times so that it couldn't be a co-incidence and they made sure we would get what they were trying to say...

 

[Wicca]

Ok, I think I'm starting to figure out your theory. I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong.

good guess 🙂

Giles, Buffy, Faith, The Scoobs, the potentials and The First all believe that the slayer line passes through Buffy, but they're all wrong.

right... i think you should go back to the scripts and find me the exact quotes that say: faith thinks so and giles thinks so. and rememberthat i want direct quotes, not something someone said you*think* might mean that.

We have no idea what the disruption in the slayer line is, nor should we concern ourselves with it.

and the last part was said by whom?

Giles and Anya are incorrect when the assume Beljoxa's Eye is talking about Buffy when it mentions The Slayer.

neither the eye, nor giles or anya said the line runs through buffy, the only thing that was said was that there was a disruption in the slayer line, that's all.

We are meant to ignore the fact that we now know from Chosen that the slayer line can be passed on through methods other than the death of Faith.

and that was said by whom? or for that matter, what does this have to do with the matter at hand?

The writers don't think there's any reason we would want or need to know all this.

don't know about you but i know all i need to know.

We're required to accept all this based on the grounds that you said it.

no, you're supposed to prove us wrong if you want to prove your point. so far though, you've failed.

Is that about it?

yes 🙂

Oh and one more thing. We're meant to believe that these are the more reasonable conclusions, right?

once again - prove us wrong. so far it's been vice versa though.

 

[eponinethen]

Um, everyone seems to take this a lot more serious than I do, like it's a real fight between wo sides.. I guess that it is.. But I'm just trying to figure out what "really" happened, I'm not just fighting for my side... (Don't know what's wrong with me, I'm usually all about fighting, lol.)

 

[Wicca]

lol well it does seem to be a fight, i'll grant you that. but i for one enjoy a challenge 😉
only wish i actually got one.