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If Spuffy broke up , could they be friends?

Priceless

Scooby
Joined
Jan 25, 2016
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No I don't! 🙄 Seriously, it's an interesting comment...correct me on this if I'm wrong. Buffy/Angel is tied up with written prophecy? So...in theory, it's operating at the level of the symbolic, of conscious. Buffy/Spike isn't...but when I look at unconscious structures of both couples, it's Spike and Buffy who're inevitable. To bring it back to the OP - try as they might, I'm not sure whether they could remain just as friends...I think they're unconsciously destined to be more. Whether they recognize this themselves is questionable. From this perspective...yeah, I'll applaud the writers! It's this that gives me hope for S12...but I don't want to think about S12.
That's why I think Spike and Buffy are transcendent, they transcend the written word, the prophecy. They are bigger than that. Angel and Buffy are designed to work, to be together, to be 'the romance' whereas Spike and Buffy are beyond that. They are not designed, they just are.

I still applaud the writers though. It's difficult to write two romances for the same character that are equally as emotive. I'm a Spuffy, but I do understand what Bangels see in their ship, and I put that down to great writers.
 

TriBel

Scooby
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I still applaud the writers though.
Yeah...I was being facetious when I said I didn't! Sorry! 😌 I totally agree. Bangle - I think - is also transcendent - but in a known and knowable way - and, if we can "know" something, is it truly transcendent? It's like the phrase "God is ineffable". So - God can't be described in words - but you've just used an adjective (by definition a describing word) to...err...describe God (don't laugh...this has annoyed me since I was 7 and I discovered what ineffable meant 🙄 ). Spuffy isn't like this...it's messier. It always ends in a silence of sorts...hence Touched; hence "does it have to mean?"; hence the flaming hands in Chosen...seen but not spoken. I have to be honest - I wasn't happy with the S11 ILY; I much preferred "it is now" when they were reunited (and the admittance of surprise by their friends)...shouldn't be but is...sorta thing.
 

Priceless

Scooby
Joined
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Messages
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Yeah...I was being facetious when I said I didn't! Sorry! 😌 I totally agree. Bangle - I think - is also transcendent - but in a known and knowable way - and, if we can "know" something, is it truly transcendent? It's like the phrase "God is ineffable". So - God can't be described in words - but you've just used an adjective (by definition a describing word) to...err...describe God (don't laugh...this has annoyed me since I was 7 and I discovered what ineffable meant 🙄 ). Spuffy isn't like this...it's messier. It always ends in a silence of sorts...hence Touched; hence "does it have to mean?"; hence the flaming hands in Chosen...seen but not spoken. I have to be honest - I wasn't happy with the S11 ILY; I much preferred "it is now" when they were reunited (and the admittance of surprise by their friends)...shouldn't be but is...sorta thing.
Spuffy is definitely messier, which is something I love about the relationship. It's gritty and dirty and has a massive effect on the two participants in a way no one could forsee, and I include the writers and actors in that. I don't think it was certain that Spike went to Africa to get his soul or his chip removed, which to me just adds to the unknowingness of them. They are a symbol of unintended consequences 😂

Personally I loved the 'I love you too' - it kept me smiling for days afterwards, but I understand the importance of not speaking the words, yet it being evident in the actions. But I think that could be seen as season 12 in a way (sorry, I know you hate it, and I don't like it much) . . . they break up, but they still trust, hug, cling, talk, call themselves forever friends etc. etc. It is loving without those words. The surprise of friends/ shouldn't be but is etc. was all there in the break up.
 
TriBel
TriBel
Take your point :)) (and I know you loved the ILY) but I think my loathing for S12 is ingrained now. There's probably more chance me becoming a Citeh fan than a S12 one. :))

LeeJones41

Potential
Joined
Aug 18, 2016
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145
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49
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The reason why it could be nothing more than 'romantic' is because it transcended friendship; they were meant to be much more than simply friends. That is the tragedy of Bangel.
For me, the tragedy of Bangel was that it was a relationship frozen in Buffy's youth and incapable of growing into something more mature. I never could see Buffy and Angel having a mature relationship.
 

DeadlyDuo

Scooby
Joined
Jul 29, 2016
Messages
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Difficult to say. We have Spike's "You're not friends" speech to Buffy and Angel plus him getting upset over Drusilla's suggestion that she and he could still be friends, which in itself suggests that Spike is an all or nothing kind of guy. However both those instances were pre-soul. In Season 7, Spike wasn't expecting anything from Buffy, however was that because the AR was still reasonably fresh so Spike didn't want to push his luck and overstep his bounds? Spike's not an idiot (though I do think his competency level took a dip via the writers from Season 5 onwards to reduce his threat level and make Spuffy workable) so even he would know that it would be best to give Buffy time.

My guess over whether they can be friends is that pre-soul Spike is a no whilst post-soul Spike is a maybe.
 

TriBel

Scooby
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Manchester
They are a symbol of unintended consequences 😂
I think that's right - though it's not to say that there isn't a drive (intent) but the drive's unknowable. I actually think the idea of causality is key to S7 - cause/effect or effect/cause. It's there in Lessons in the talisman. We never KNOW who put the "cause" there - we only ever see the effect.
 
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