Illyria- Why?

yeah i think it had something to do with the Apocalypse, I think she was brought in order to help stop it... and i also think they did it in order to show how much Wes loved her, and even tho fred was gone wes still loved her through Illyria. I thought Illyria was a great character to have on the show.. I just wish they would have explained the reason she was there, i mean other than the fact that she wanted to revive her army.
 
FullOfGrace said:
yeah i think it had something to do with the Apocalypse, I think she was brought in order to help stop it... and i also think they did it in order to show how much Wes loved her, and even tho fred was gone wes still loved her through Illyria. I thought Illyria was a great character to have on the show.. I just wish they would have explained the reason she was there, i mean other than the fact that she wanted to revive her army.
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Wes didn't love Illyria. He loved Fred. No, I take that back. He loved some idealized vision of what he thought Fred was. Which goes to show what a complete wanker he really was.

As for Illyria, was irrelevant to the story. A waste of my time.
 
The Story will never be finished, so your question will never be answered. you cant expect to know everything about a character in their first episode. the character had pretty much run her course and Illyrea spiced up the dynamic, your never going to find out why she was written in, get over it.
 
Faldor said:
The Story will never be finished, so your question will never be answered. you cant expect to know everything about a character in their first episode. the character had pretty much run her course and Illyrea spiced up the dynamic, your never going to find out why she was written in, get over it.
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I agree with you. We will never know what she was going to be like in season six. Deal with it.

She was an irrevelant character who was allowed to dominate a show that already had a starring character
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What about Spike? He was dominate the show. How you notice that the WB was treating it has the Spike show? 🙂
 
Faldor said:
The Story will never be finished, so your question will never be answered. you cant expect to know everything about a character in their first episode. the character had pretty much run her course and Illyrea spiced up the dynamic, your never going to find out why she was written in, get over it.
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Nice speech. You sound very dedicated. You must hate it when someone criticizes even one thing about the show.
 
I asked my sister this when I saw the episode...and she said something that made me go...oh...yea..OK...but I don't remeber what it was she said...hmmm....

But yea I agree. I was expecting them to actually do something with this character, but I really didn't see her point, except to show off Amy Acker's amazing acting ability. But it doesn't really bother me that she didn't have a purpose, because I absolutely loved her character, and Amy did an amazing job as Illyria.
 
But it doesn't really bother me that she didn't have a purpose, because I absolutely loved her character, and Amy did an amazing job as Illyria.

It bothered me. I don't care how "amazing" Amy was. Whedon sacrificed the quality of the show and the story, all because he wanted her to have a job and refused to realize that she was irrevelant to the show. I'm also regretting that James Marsters had joined the cast. At first, Spike gave revelance to the story. But after "Damage", he - like Illyria, after him - became inconsequential. As for Amy, a fan fiction writer, of whom I am a fan, had put it best:

"I was okay with the mindwipe allowing Wes to become obsessed with Fred again, until they said that Wes remembered Lilah. His dismissal of the lessons learned from Lilah's death through tomorrow make no sense in my opinion. If he had just done the stiff upper lip thing at the end of S4, I might have been able to go with what they were trying to
play up earlier in the season -- Wes 'saying' he had no feelings for Lilah. The end of S4 demonstrated otherwise.

In the end, Joss loved the idea of Fred from day one and failed to sell it to the writing staff. Fred's uneven portrayal speaks to that. In conjunction, I think the idea of Wes' obsession,' as opposed to the 'crush' that I saw was poorly sold.

They really forced the idea on us in S5, turning Wesley into
practically a stalker to sell the 'obsession,' which did not
contribute at all to what was supposed to be us being happy that they were finally together.

While I freely admit that I haven't been happy with the idea of Wes and Fred as a pairing since "Billy", it irks the hell out of me that the affair with Lilah was written off by the writers as inconsequential to Wes' character development." ::mmm::
 
Fred was damaging the show how? And spurt off about Fresley in the thread you made.

Anyway I repeat this is not a thread to bash Amy, Illyria or Fred but rather to try and come up with ideas on why she was ressurected. She did have a purpose, it was stated so we must speculate on what that is.

I think maybe the Senior Partners planned and initiated her comeback. She destracted Angel and co for a few episodes, they were starting to catch onto things weren't right (well Angel in 5.12 was). They probably knew the human body wouldn't cope with Illyria's powers and thus they would have to take them away. This means the SP did not have to worry about her being used in the fight against them and it provided a nice distraction.
 
AshSan said:
Fred was damaging the show how? And spurt off about Fresley in the thread you made.

Anyway I repeat this is not a thread to bash Amy, Illyria or Fred but rather to try and come up with ideas on why she was ressurected. She did have a purpose, it was stated so we must speculate on what that is.

I think maybe the Senior Partners planned and initiated her comeback. She destracted Angel and co for a few episodes, they were starting to catch onto things weren't right (well Angel in 5.12 was). They probably knew the human body wouldn't cope with Illyria's powers and thus they would have to take them away. This means the SP did not have to worry about her being used in the fight against them and it provided a nice distraction.
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That was the whole meaning behind Illyria's appearance? To distract Angel and Co.? That's it? And why was it so important for Angel to be distracted? As much as I like the show, I never understood why he was so important to the Senior Partners? In the end, Buffy and Willow's actions had a bigger impact on the whole "good-vs-evil" war than Angel ever did. Even his destruction of the Black Thorn Circle seemed nothing more than a distraction or interruption for the Senior Partners.
 
Illyria is the best and I think the purpose of having her come into it was to keep a prominant female character in it for the showdown but the reality of it is Fred would not have survived anything that happened that night let alone killed the demons Illyria killed. fred wasn't equipped for the last fight. Bringi Illyria into it was a way of keeping amy acker who is amazing btw, a lead female and make it believable that they get to the end fight. Plus a nifty character to be set up as a spinoff 🙂
 
also I would like to add (it's probably been added somewhere) I read in season 6 Illyria would have been playing Fred like she did in GIQ off and on, it would be a Clark and Superman type thing.
 
I think Illyria had a good role in Season 5... If it wasn't for her I probably wouldn't have watched the remaining season. But maybe her purpose of being brought back was to help Angel fight in the final fight. Because she did have some of her powers left so her purpose was probably to fight the big fight with the remaining heros. *shrugs* But I love the character of Illyria, it was just a uniqe character, and Amy potrayed her very well. I just love Illyria!
 
FahrbotDrusilla said:
also I would like to add (it's probably been added somewhere) I read in season 6 Illyria would have been playing Fred like she did in GIQ off and on, it would be a Clark and Superman type thing.
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Thank God, I was spared of that crap! Joss Whedon really must have been desperate to keep Amy Acker employed.


I think this writer (whose name I don't know) said it best about Illyria:

"The Illyria story that took over the last third of the season doesn't really intersect with this story at all; anything that hurt Fred would have shown Gunn's corruption, his willingness to sacrifice innocent lives for his own purposes and his subsequent remorse. Illyria herself is irrelevant. That Gunn is barely shown interacting with the character of Illyria clinches it for me; she's an intrusion on a story already in progress, not so much a "hole in the world" as a hole in the universe; like a Marvel Comics character punching into a conference room on The Practice, Illyria is a jarring element, akin to discovering that the characters of ER are suddenly treating patients that have been stomped on by Godzilla. One can't say she doesn't belong in the AtS, a supernatural universe that can ultimately sustain anything, but she adds nothing to the Wolfram & Hart plotline. Her storyline, enteraining as it is on some levels, is a self-contained one, airlifted into the existing plot rather like the sarcophogus she appears from. (It's kinda tempting to wonder if we might have gotten more explanation for Lindsey's role in all this had not Illyria been introduced, although since Lindsey's presence already made no sense as early as "You're Welcome," that's probably wishful thinking on my part.)"
 
And that proves exactly what LL? That viewers exist who didn't like the character of ILLyria? So what. I can find posting of criticism on practically any notion ever proposed in the Whedonverse. So What.

I also don't like Illyria. I love her. She was a fantastic creation almost Shakespearean in tone, and she melded with the general theme of Season 5 like a glove. She showed the consequences of dealing with the devil in that you might be seen as trading up in power, but when you lose your innocence, and the righteousness of your path, you lose.
 
nerd4hire said:
And that proves exactly what LL? That viewers exist who didn't like the character of ILLyria? So what. I can find posting of criticism on practically any notion ever proposed in the Whedonverse. So What.

I also don't like Illyria. I love her. She was a fantastic creation almost Shakespearean in tone, and she melded with the general theme of Season 5 like a glove. She showed the consequences of dealing with the devil in that you might be seen as trading up in power, but when you lose your innocence, and the righteousness of your path, you lose.
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What makes you think that writer disliked Illyria? Because he or she criticized her presence in late S5? I believed that Illyria was an interesting character . . . sometimes. But, she really had no place in late S5. Not really.
 
Well, that is an opinion, and good for you for having them.

My opinion is Illyria was an amazing character, and important to Season 5 for the reasons already stated. In my mind she helped Season 5 become what I fondly think of as my personal favourite season of Angel.

So there you have it - 2 personal opinions. Neither one is wrong. They just are what they are - opinions.

What is wrong though is if you or I scour the internet to find someone who shares our individual opinion, present it, and suggest "Ahuh. This proves it. Mine is the one, true and only possible conclusion to come to."
 
LadyLavinia said:
What makes you think that writer disliked Illyria? Because he or she criticized her presence in late S5? I believed that Illyria was an interesting character . . . sometimes. But, she really had no place in late S5. Not really.
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hehe I know I know!

In the second episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, "The Harvest" we were introduced to the notion of "the Old Ones".

Doesn't it seem odd that 7 years later we would actually encounter the presence of an old one herself?

I believe Joss introduced Illyria and the Deeper Well and everything about the Old Ones because they would become a huge piece of the Buffyverse puzzle.

Giles: The books tell the last demon to leave this reality fed off a
human, mixed their blood. He was a human form possessed, infected by the
demon's soul. He bit another, and another, and so they walk the Earth,
feeding... Killing some, mixing their blood with others to make more of
their kind. Waiting for the animals to die out, and the old ones to
return.
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I think if we had seen an Angel Season 6, a Buffy spinoff or even a Buffyverse feature film, it would be something that dealt with the Old Ones. Also there is speculation that ties in the Old Ones with the events that occur in Fray.
 
Isn't that interesting though. I don't find the introduction of an Old One an intrusion at all. For me it's more a case of "what took you so long?"

I don't know...maybe it's because I'm a Fray fanatic. To me the Old Ones are just an accepted fact of the verse like the slayer line.

To me they tie in nicely with the general theme of Season 5 - corruption in the quest for power. The Old Ones were demon power.

Also I think SlayerThe may be on to something when he calls their introduction "a piece of the puzzle".

Illyria was introduced after the Angel cancellation news. The re-emergence of the Old Ones back story may have been at least partially an emphasis on the chronology of the verse. An explanation, and a last goodbye.
 
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