Illyria: Worst Character Ever?
- Thread starter PurplePoof
- Start date
Revolver
Sir Douche
Illyria was definitely not the worst character ever, and I'm somewhat baffled that someone would complain about there being "fantasy elements" in the show? Ummmm, you do realize you're watching a freakin' show about a vampire with a soul, right? A spinoff of a show originally about a teenage girl fighting vampires, demons, robots whilst hanging out in a library with her nerdy friends? Have these shows ever NOT contained fantasy elements? How is Illyria any more an insult to the viewers intelligence than say, Mayor Wilkins- a man who was unkillable for a period of time before turning into a giant snake....on graduation day, no less? Don't get me wrong, the guy was hilarious but I just don't see an ancient demon taking over a woman's body as any more of a stretch of the imagination than that. Or a teenage girl being created out of a ball of energy and somehow having the same blood as her pretend sister....or countless other examples. These are fantasy shows. They may both contain many other elements that elevate them, but if you can't deal with the fantasy elements, how did you even become a fan?
H
hazzard
nicely put
Airam
Thank you! great post!
Joan the Vampire Slayer
I don't think he said "fantasy"...wasn't it sci fi?
T
The Scourge
[No message]
A
atticus
Guest
I liked Illyria. I didn't like that the year before we had the Cordy is possessed and her body taken over by some uber power story, and then we had Fred is is possessed and her body taken over by some uber power story. It lost any real impact. And seemed lazy. Amy Acker was awesome though.
LadyLavinia
Scooby
I wouldn't call Illyria as the worst character ever. But she did come off as a second-rate Seven-of-Nine to me.
Uncle Rory
Potential
Back after the Holidays and dying to weigh in on this topic.
Unfortunatly I have only seen the last 5 or so episodes of season 5 in Dubbed Spanish which is just hilarious but I wonder, Do they sometimes refer to Illyria in the Masculine in the English version? From my understanding the Entity Illyria was male and KING of a hell dimension and then was brought back in Fred's body, which has all kinds of implications.
I thought Illyria could have grown into something really cool if the show had gone on for another season. As far as her being TOO Sci-Fi, I'd say that both Buffy and Angel are about 33.3% Sci-fi shows so how is that a possibility? And I have to agree with a previous post - Hands off Star Trek man, that's blasphemy. HAHA.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that I always flesh out these characters in my imagination and I'd say Illyria has some MAJOR potential as far as an imagined back story. When she gives the speach about how NIGHTMARES in her world were a reality I get shivers. Illyria, the first Serial Killer?
Uncle Rory
Unfortunatly I have only seen the last 5 or so episodes of season 5 in Dubbed Spanish which is just hilarious but I wonder, Do they sometimes refer to Illyria in the Masculine in the English version? From my understanding the Entity Illyria was male and KING of a hell dimension and then was brought back in Fred's body, which has all kinds of implications.
I thought Illyria could have grown into something really cool if the show had gone on for another season. As far as her being TOO Sci-Fi, I'd say that both Buffy and Angel are about 33.3% Sci-fi shows so how is that a possibility? And I have to agree with a previous post - Hands off Star Trek man, that's blasphemy. HAHA.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that I always flesh out these characters in my imagination and I'd say Illyria has some MAJOR potential as far as an imagined back story. When she gives the speach about how NIGHTMARES in her world were a reality I get shivers. Illyria, the first Serial Killer?
Uncle Rory
Joan the Vampire Slayer
[No message]
Cohen
Hellhound
You do realize this is a sci-fi show. I mean, how many vampires, demons, ghosts, sexbots do you know?
LadyLavinia
Scooby
Considering that I've always disliked Fred, my feelings about Illyria has nothing to do with her. I don't dislike Illyria, she's not a favorite of mine. And she never came off as quite original to me.
Buffyverse Fan
* The 28th *
You know that Season 5 was among the highest rated seasons of Angel, and it tied or beat all but two Buffy seasons (S2 & 3, the ones with Angel starring in them along with Cordy & Wes 😛)? It was only canceled because Joss demanded a renewal before renewal time, and the executive that canceled it was fired (partly over canceling it), and his replacement acknowledged that canceling Angel was a huge mistake that he wished he could take back.
I liked her, but less than Fred, I really only have two objections to her:
1.) Without Fred, Angel didn't really have any confidantes left. He trusted Wes for the most part, but never forgot that Wes stole his son and gave him to Holtz. And not only was Gunn involved with Fred's death, but Angel also wasn't sure how much to trust Gunn after W&H monkeyed with his brain. And Spike was more rival than buddy of Angel's. I thought Illyria for Fred hurt the dynamic, in the end it just added more muscle to the team, which wasn't necessary. In the end his team was 100% warriors except for Lorne, a demon. Buffy had a better mix of muscle and heart, with most of the scoobies being more friend than fellow warrior.
2.) Joss said he only killed Fred and created Illyria because he thought it would be "really funny."
Electra Woman
Townie
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2009
- Messages
- 23
LadyLavinia
Scooby
Angel had Spike. Spike went from his rival to his closest confidant by the end of the season.
B
Buffyverse Fan
Yes & no. Spike & Groo were really the only people Angel's seen as rivals, so I think it keeps him from being as close as he was with Doyle, Wes, Cordy, Fred & Gunn. That's just how I see it.
EvilWillow77
Townie
I always "liked" Fred, and my fondness grew with every episode. I thought she was completely endearing and real. The way she died was so heartwrenching to me! To have Illyria take over her body was at first a violation in my opinion, but then the blue meanie started to grow on me. I thought that she purely embodied the way that all of Joss Whedon's characters speak and behave. Almost as if they don't really belong in this universe (of course they belong to the Whedon-verse!). The way she knew nothing of the human way of being, and then gradually came into her own and tweaking her personality to blend reminded me a bit of Anya. Coincidentally (or not, for are there really any coincidences in JW's world?) I really didn't care for Anya at first, but she, too grew on me. Aside from the characters as they relate to the show, I felt that Amy's portrayal of such a radically different character totally showed what kind of range she is capable of. Whether Fred's death would have occured if it were not for the shows untimely demise, I don't know, but if Illyria was a plan that Joss had pre-cancellation, I feel sure that her character would have been explored and evolved with much greater attention to minute detail. As it stands I think he did beautifully well with the cards he was dealt.
sibby
Looking for a Pokemon!
I think she was quite cute! She was lost and lonely. In full of women power. But i did miss Fred alot!
sibby
Looking for a Pokemon!
Senior Partner
Harbinger of doom
I don't think the character had been thought through properly by the writers and this was a major weakness. Maybe they did get lazy or just ran out of ideas. I think this was reflected in the plot developments.
1) They kill off Fred by having a god take over her body with the intention of ruling the world and bringing back the old order, almost exactly the same plot line as Cordy's demise. It wasn't that good a plot the first time round, so why?...
2) You begin thinking this is the apocalypse prophecy coming true, but the threat is short-lived and Illyria accepts the dereliction of her ambition almost instantly. So really she had little influence in the great scheme of things, and wasn't the big bad after all, so why even bother introduce the character in the first place? She was a short diversion and possibly an effort at trying to wring out some dramatic tragedy ahead of the grand finale by killing off a main character. I thought AHITW was a moving episode, but the effect was completely destroyed in the episodes that followed cos the writers seemed to change their minds a lot.
3) One minute we are supposed to believe that Fred's soul has been utterly destroyed in the transition to Illyria. The tragedy is that there is supposed to be nothing left, she is well and truly gone forever (this is echoed in Wes' death scene when Illyria lies to him as he dies), and yet, hey presto, in the episodes after AHITW Illyria has some of her memories and the ability to exactly assimilate her looks and manners, convincing enough to fool Fred's parents. Once again, I think introducing the parents on a flying visit was really to beef up the 'heartbroken Wesley' thread and remind us of his anguish. But this was unnecessary in my opinion and felt very contrived. Either Fred is dead and gone, the whole kit and kaboodle, or she aint. It felt like the writers couldn't really make up their mind, and were using the Wes/Illyria/Fred triangle as a 'filler' between scenes to disguise the thinness of the main plot.
4) I have always thought of Angel as more fantasy than sci-fi mainly because it has always erred more on the mystical/magical side of things. Ok, you need to suspend your disbelief in order to swallow any of it really, but for me they crossed a line when Wes produced an uber-sized ray gun to zap Illyria and reduce her strength. I mean - come on people...
Having said all that, I am a fan of Angel, and was forced, along with the rest of you to accept the way the writers wrote the story. But for me, Season 5 had some major high points and some major low ones too. I didn't particularly like Fred or Illyria, but she did get the best line in the entire show.
'I want to keep Spike as a pet.'
Don't we all!
1) They kill off Fred by having a god take over her body with the intention of ruling the world and bringing back the old order, almost exactly the same plot line as Cordy's demise. It wasn't that good a plot the first time round, so why?...
2) You begin thinking this is the apocalypse prophecy coming true, but the threat is short-lived and Illyria accepts the dereliction of her ambition almost instantly. So really she had little influence in the great scheme of things, and wasn't the big bad after all, so why even bother introduce the character in the first place? She was a short diversion and possibly an effort at trying to wring out some dramatic tragedy ahead of the grand finale by killing off a main character. I thought AHITW was a moving episode, but the effect was completely destroyed in the episodes that followed cos the writers seemed to change their minds a lot.
3) One minute we are supposed to believe that Fred's soul has been utterly destroyed in the transition to Illyria. The tragedy is that there is supposed to be nothing left, she is well and truly gone forever (this is echoed in Wes' death scene when Illyria lies to him as he dies), and yet, hey presto, in the episodes after AHITW Illyria has some of her memories and the ability to exactly assimilate her looks and manners, convincing enough to fool Fred's parents. Once again, I think introducing the parents on a flying visit was really to beef up the 'heartbroken Wesley' thread and remind us of his anguish. But this was unnecessary in my opinion and felt very contrived. Either Fred is dead and gone, the whole kit and kaboodle, or she aint. It felt like the writers couldn't really make up their mind, and were using the Wes/Illyria/Fred triangle as a 'filler' between scenes to disguise the thinness of the main plot.
4) I have always thought of Angel as more fantasy than sci-fi mainly because it has always erred more on the mystical/magical side of things. Ok, you need to suspend your disbelief in order to swallow any of it really, but for me they crossed a line when Wes produced an uber-sized ray gun to zap Illyria and reduce her strength. I mean - come on people...
Having said all that, I am a fan of Angel, and was forced, along with the rest of you to accept the way the writers wrote the story. But for me, Season 5 had some major high points and some major low ones too. I didn't particularly like Fred or Illyria, but she did get the best line in the entire show.
'I want to keep Spike as a pet.'
Don't we all!