Illyria: Worst Character Ever?

People have a tendency to "blame" the wrong people. Illyria for killing Fred but also Cordelia for sleeping with Connor.
 
Illyria said herself that she couldn't even have saved Fred if she wanted to. She wasn't responsible for Fred's death. Not entirely. I too blame Knox for it.
 
Besides, Knox and the doctor for killing Fred and whoever else, Gunn is also responsible for killing Fred too. Him being selfish, lying and all like since way back way back in Season 3. And after Gunn came back getting his heart being ripped out, he still doesn't get it. He blames Illyria for killing Fred, instead of himself taking responsibility.
 
masterdkd said:
Besides, Knox and the doctor for killing Fred and whoever else, Gunn is also responsible for killing Fred too. Him being selfish, lying and all like since way back way back in Season 3. And after Gunn came back getting his heart being ripped out, he still doesn't get it. He blames Illyria for killing Fred, instead of himself taking responsibility.
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I totally agree. I have always liked Gunn. Granted, I didn't like him as much as say Wesley, Fred, or Lorne, but I didn't hate him by any means... But when I saw that he was the one who signed for the tomb to get there, my blood boiled. I didn't think he had a right to be so high and mighty with Knox or the doc, but he was always one of those who had to have someone to blame other than himself. But that plot point made me really mad at Gunn... Still, I was sad for what happened to him in "Not Fade Away".
 
Gunn may have made a mistake but i can hardly blame him. He wasn't being high and mighty with Doc or Knox, he was rightly mad at them for knowing what would happen to Fred and setting him up. And Gunn felt responsible anyway, remember the talk he and Angel had when Gunns in hospital after Wes stabs him!
And ok Gunn made a mistake but so has Wes, Buffy, Willow, Angel... Everybody has.
 
Illyria i believe played a big roll of how wes held on to that love of fred... she was one of the strongest people there at the end and it made be known that supreme beings can feel as humans do, even though she kept bashing the human race, she finds hurself grieving for wes... i think its beautiful...
 
Devon227 said:
Illyria i believe played a big roll of how wes held on to that love of fred... she was one of the strongest people there at the end and it made be known that supreme beings can feel as humans do, even though she kept bashing the human race, she finds hurself grieving for wes... i think its beautiful...
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Well said... The scene of her holding him and "lieing" to him in "Not Fade Away" was one of the best and most touching scenes in the season AND in the Fresley ship.
 
I think the issue with this is some might be confused between the difference between sci-fi and fantasy. Illyria is a demon ex-ruler from another dimension. She has the ability to travel through time and other dimensions, and assume the form of anyone she likes. I'd say she's a mixture of both fantasy and sci-fi characteristics.

Angel, like Joss' other shows, uses elements and is influenced by many genres. But if I had to pin them down, I'd say Angel is a crime detective drama/noir/horror/fantasy and sci fi show (get my point?).

Sci-fi is often but not always deals with technology we don't have yet and takes place in the future. While fantasy almost always deals with magic (witches, vamps etc) or supernatural themes. In fantasy the unbelievable is treated as reality. Buffy's use of robots and Angel's use of time travel and both shows depictions of apocalypses shows it is influenced by sci-fi. But since both shows take place in the present day, nether can really be said to belong in the sci-fi category. It's safe to say in conclusion that both shows are influenced by sci-fi so Illyria is not out of place in his 'verse.
 
What most intrigues me about Illyria is the complicated dynamic of her existence in Fred's body. Each character reacts differently to that fact, although Wes' reactions are understandably more pronounced and emphasized more than the other characters. Wes obsesses over Illyria because her very appearance reminds him of Fred, whom he loved dearly, but also because she is an interesting research subject (witness all of the lab observations, with her alone or with Spike). Further complicating matters, Illyria still retains many of Fred's memories, so she can "be" Fred to some extent. It's pretty fascinating watching Wesley struggle with wanting Illyria to be Fred, but denying himself that possibility because he does not want to believe a lie (and does not want to corrupt his memories/knowledge of the "true" Fred).

As for Illyria herself, I, like many others, liked how Illyria felt trapped by a weak shell. On the one hand, she was weaker because of this limitation, but on the other hand this anger spurred her to make the best with what she had. And of course, she had no choice to accept her body when it became apparent that not doing so would bring about her death (as well as that of many humans, but that was of no concern to her). This weakness made her appear more vulnerable, and thus more human and relatable. Plus, if she wasn't trapped in Fred's body, she might have been less likely to help defeat the Circle of the Black Thorn. Fred's memories tied her to Wes to a certain extent, as well as to the rest of the gang, so she gradually supported their cause.

But I also think that the writers needed more time to develop her character. I don't plan on reading the After the Fall comics, since I'm not as big a fan of Angel as I am of Buffy. So, if anyone wants to tell me how she has evolved since Season Five, feel free.
 
B
BillyidolwannaB
The less you hear about the comic the better. Its pretty lame. Imo :)
Illyria in no way is a horrible character in my opinion. I just wondered this but does Illyria have a soul or does she just have Fred's leftover memories and almost feelings?
 
charmingslayer said:
Illyria in no way is a horrible character in my opinion. I just wondered this but does Illyria have a soul or does she just have Fred's leftover memories and almost feelings?
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That is a good question. Since she was one of the Old Ones, that would make her a demon, right? So, I'm guessing no soul. But she actually consumed Fred's soul, right? As in, Fred is completely gone? The way I understood it, Illyria and Fred were sort of merged when Illyria took over her body.

I personally adored Illyria. She was a breath of fresh air after the monotony of some of the previous episodes. Fred always seemed kinda average to me, but my opinion of her, and Amy Acker as an actress, improved immensly when Illyria took her over.
She was clever and resourceful, and yet she seemed as forlorn as the rest of them when she decided to stay as part of the team.
I loved the episode when she went to rescue Gunn, and just immediately came up with putting that hell-necklace on the demon (because someone had to be wearing it at all times)...
Then in the episode Not Fade Away when Cyrus Vale was taunting her and she smashed his head apart with a single punch.

Her storyline was kind of a repeat of the Jasmine/Cordelia thing at first, but her willingness to adjust to her surroundings and how she interacted with everyone were somethings I liked best about her.
 
Many are saying that Illyria didn't belong in Whedonverse or what have you.

After watching seven seasons of Buffy and nearly five of Angel, wouldn't be shocked at anything thrown at me.


It's safe to say that anything goes, when it comes to Josh Whedon.

JMH0
 
I loved Illyria. I liked her better than Fred. I'm glad they brought her on the show. It should have been earlier though.
 
I loved Fred and thought Illyria was cool. Amy Acker was great as both.

Angel411 said:
I think the character and willow were very similar.
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Do you mean just willow or dark willow? Because I see where you are coming from if you mean dark willow. I also think that when Illyria talked she reminded me of Anya at times.
 
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